View Full Version : [politics] Iraq War Draft
Coach_Goldberg
02-23-2006, 04:38 PM
The other draft thread is not concrete enough. so...
If there were a draft for the Iraq War, would you go? Would you dodge? What would you do?
This only concerns a draft needed for the occupation of Iraq, not some draft in the somewhat future to fight anyone.
wolfie8914
02-23-2006, 04:42 PM
I do not believe in the Iraq war, and I will have to register for the draft soon. This obviously worries me for the possibility of the reinstatement of the draft. However, even though I disagree with the war....I do think it's my duty to fulfill my duties as a citizen. It would suck, but I would go.
WSWDpole33
02-23-2006, 04:45 PM
i would dodge because i dont want to be in a war i dont think we need to fight. Even though i wanna go n kill iraqi's (sp?) for what they did to us, i dont think we need to b there
HdGLaxWarrior
02-23-2006, 04:47 PM
Even though i wanna go n kill iraqi's (sp?) for what they did to us, i dont think we need to b there
That made absolutely no sense. So they can get away with it?
marflax33
02-23-2006, 04:54 PM
i would go ( when im older, that is ), but i am colorblind so they wont let me
wolfie8914
02-23-2006, 05:01 PM
i would go ( when im older, that is ), but i am colorblind so they wont let me
dang that is really tight.
GBaschski
02-23-2006, 05:02 PM
i would dodge because i dont want to be in a war i dont think we need to fight. Even though i wanna go n kill iraqi's (sp?) for what they did to us, i dont think we need to b there
Iraqis didn't do anything to us.
GBaschski
02-23-2006, 05:03 PM
I'd go for sure. Let my friends and fellow patriots die while I dodge like a coward? Sorry, I have morales. Stance on the war means nothing.
HdGLaxWarrior
02-23-2006, 05:05 PM
I'd go for sure. Let my friends and fellow patriots die while I dodge like a coward? Sorry, I have morales. Stance on the war means nothing.
Quoted for emphasis.
i would go ( when im older, that is ), but i am colorblind so they wont let me
Didnt you say you were leaving?
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 05:27 PM
as stated, id join the AF. I couldnt fight because i have terrible eyesight, and if sand gets in my contact, im basically worthless. But i could do stuff like radar, and ummanned drones. Also, i would like to use that new Aegis system the navy has, it look awesome. You can hit bunny farts from 100 miles away.
JoshM
02-23-2006, 05:32 PM
I'd probably dodge by enlisting in the Navy. But if a draft was necessary for the Iraq War then they probably would not be drafting college students, and that's where I plan to be.
laxman359
02-23-2006, 05:34 PM
Canada here i come
TheKOB
02-23-2006, 05:34 PM
as stated, id join the AF. I couldnt fight because i have terrible eyesight, and if sand gets in my contact, im basically worthless. But i could do stuff like radar, and ummanned drones. Also, i would like to use that new Aegis system the navy has, it look awesome. You can hit bunny farts from 100 miles away.
Oh come on, you get those drew carey "birth control" glasses...so named because they are the least attractive piece of headwear you'd ever get.
I'd go. It's illegal not to, and I'd want to fulfill my obligations.
Not to clog the thread, but I think the draft is outdated. It wasn't used correctly in Vietnam, which is the main reason why we lost that one. It's common sense that unless it's a fight against a great evil (WW2, for example) and public opinion is overwhelmingly for it, it'll fall though. Besides, War has become less and less traditional battlefield fighting and more and more guerilla/terrorist fighting, which is best left to the tried and true soldiers.
Basically, when Canada or Mexico decides they want to try and invade the US, we'll start up the draft. Chasing Bin Laden...you don't exactly want (or need) a bunch of 18 yo's fresh out of boot.
Frndlefire
02-23-2006, 06:59 PM
Like I have said in the other thread, unless the war fullfills the conditions of the vatican's just war theory I would conscientiously object. I do not believe that I could morally kill a person, particularly under questionable pretenses. According to Gbaschski this, ironically, means I lack morals and am a coward...but morals have always been relative and I've never been one to press or suggest mine upon anyone else...so take it as you want.
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 07:24 PM
Like I have said in the other thread, unless the war fullfills the conditions of the vatican's just war theory I would conscientiously object. I do not believe that I could morally kill a person, particularly under questionable pretenses. According to Gbaschski this, ironically, means I lack morals and am a coward...but morals have always been relative and I've never been one to press or suggest mine upon anyone else...so take it as you want.
if it fulfills the Vat's requirements, would you go?
Frndlefire
02-23-2006, 07:34 PM
if it fulfills the Vat's requirements, would you go?
yes, of course, because under those conditions I would be morally obligated to as my lack of action would cause greater harm than my acting.
drifter8027
02-23-2006, 07:37 PM
Iraqis didn't do anything to us.
finally someone understands
navylaxfan15
02-23-2006, 07:44 PM
Well lax fans, it appears I'm not the only one who brings up politics in these threads. And I'm pretty sure I did ask if people would dodge or no. but in any event, I am working on getting in right now. But if I get drafted before I join up, you better believe I'm there.
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 07:44 PM
god if this has slipped my mind, but what were the requirements? (i should know this, were are doing VII in religion)
MeRattack
02-23-2006, 07:44 PM
i honestly dont know what id do, it would suck when i turn 18 and theirs another world war...but i dont want to kill a man or shoot a man or anything like that, i dont want to have that on my conscience like so many war vets do and i want to live life and not be plagued by nightmares
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 07:46 PM
finally someone understands
Yeah, saddam looked at us funny, i belive that qualifies as a cause for just war under Spaghetti Monsterism
Frndlefire
02-23-2006, 08:24 PM
god if this has slipped my mind, but what were the requirements? (i should know this, were are doing VII in religion)
a) Just Cause: War is permissible only to confront "a real and certain danger," i.e., to protect innocent life, to preserve conditions necessary for decent human existence, and to basic human rights. . . .
b) Competent Authority: In the Catholic tradition the right to use force has always been joined to the common good; war must be declared by those with responsibility for public order, not by private groups or individuals. . . .
c) Comparative Justice: . . . .he question in its most basic form is this: do the rights and values involved justify killing?. . .
d) Right Intention: Right intention is related to just cause - war can be legitimately intended only for the reasons set forth above as a just cause. . . .
e) Last Resort. For resort to war to be justified, all peaceful alternatives must have been exhausted. . . .
f) Probability of Success. This criterion to apply, but its purpose is to prevent irrational resort to force or hopeless resistance when the outcome of either will clearly be disproportionate or futile. The determination includes a recognition that at times defense of key values, even against great odds, may be a "proportionate" witness. . . .
g) Proportionality: In terms of the "jus ad bellum" criteria, proportionality means that the damage to be inflicted and the costs incurred by war must be proportionate to the good expected by taking up arms. . . .
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 08:31 PM
Summary
so i guess Iraq fails 2 or 3 of these, C, and the last one, i think E
The other draft thread is not concrete enough. so...
If there were a draft for the Iraq War, would you go? Would you dodge? What would you do?
This only concerns a draft needed for the occupation of Iraq, not some draft in the somewhat future to fight anyone.
I dont think I would join the draft. I would enlist first. I dont think I would best serve my country with a rifle. Nope, give me a key card, a laptop, and a blackberry.
laxman359
02-23-2006, 09:29 PM
not to mention that like in vietnam you would get treated like crap if you are drafted in you get no respect
Frndlefire
02-23-2006, 09:31 PM
so i guess Iraq fails 2 or 3 of these, C, and the last one, i think E
Actually, I think it only passes competent authority and probability of success. The others are questionable.
ColtsLax
02-23-2006, 10:03 PM
Actually, I think it only passes competent authority and probability of success. The others are questionable.
I think probability of success would be the last thing it passes, because we dont know. What about the reason, which i assume is to liberate a people from an oppresive ruler
Frndlefire
02-23-2006, 10:08 PM
I think probability of success would be the last thing it passes, because we dont know. What about the reason, which i assume is to liberate a people from an oppresive ruler
I guess, however like I have said before: while I believe that the removing of Saddam from power is a very good thing, I don't believe it was (nor neccesarily still is) our true intentions for the Iraq war. If it was why have we gone through, like, three failed justifications before we got to this one. It's like they had a little check-list.
Also, for the probability of success... it just means is it possible that we are going to win this war? Yes. We're not 100 against 10,000. We aren't going to show up and get slaughtered.
BuckWyld
02-24-2006, 09:02 AM
are the Bush twins going first? How about Cheney's daughter?
Coach_Goldberg
02-24-2006, 09:21 AM
No, the way we fight wars now is to send in the excess poor that we have. You know. Social Darwinism.
RockStar
02-24-2006, 10:24 AM
.......Even though i wanna go n kill iraqi's (sp?) for what they did to us......
What did Iraqis do to Americans? (I mean before America invaded).
stegmakk
02-24-2006, 11:01 AM
Not to clog the thread, but I think the draft is outdated. It wasn't used correctly in Vietnam, which is the main reason why we lost that one.
I will give you that the draft is flawed...but it wasnt the reason we didnt do so hot in vietnam...its the style of warfare...same thing in iraq...different style of warfare...
anyway...on track...
i could not be drafted (at around 30 they arent looking for me)...BUT IF i was drafted...and it was for this iraq war thing...yes i would dodge it...
WSWDpole33
02-24-2006, 11:12 AM
Iraqis didn't do anything to us.
they are causing this conflict between the world. Only a small % of population though are causing these problems, I am not liking Iraq. America is trying to bring democracy into Iraq and the peope want it, but insurgents and others are killing innocent people because of this.
GeorgiaMiddie2
02-24-2006, 11:19 AM
1. We caused the conflict... not iraq. and 2. most of the insurgents are not from iraq... they followed us from countries like afghanistan.
NuKoN
02-24-2006, 11:40 AM
I would go, but if I felt that it was iminent (SP?) I'd probably enlist first
ColtsLax
02-24-2006, 01:03 PM
are the Bush twins going first? How about Cheney's daughter?
you do know that the draft is a lottery right? its a random selection, and not, none of those people would go, because they are women, and we dont draft women(BS)
BuckWyld
02-24-2006, 01:13 PM
you do know that the draft is a lottery right? its a random selection, and not, none of those people would go, because they are women, and we dont draft women(BS)
I was trying to point out that being rich and related to someone influential virtually guarentees that you will not be drafted. Like Bush and Cheney, during Vietnam. They are a bunch of chickenhawks who are willing to put other people's children in harms way to line their pockets and the pockets of their cronies.
I was trying to point out that being rich and related to someone influential virtually guarentees that you will not be drafted. Like Bush and Cheney, during Vietnam. They are a bunch of chickenhawks who are willing to put other people's children in harms way to line their pockets and the pockets of their cronies.
Well, that and having a vagina usually helps.
GBaschski
02-24-2006, 04:57 PM
1. We caused the conflict... not iraq. and 2. most of the insurgents are not from iraq... they followed us from countries like afghanistan.
Agreed on both accounts. We're not fighting a war against Iraq, we're fighting a war against insurgents IN Iraq.
truste1
02-24-2006, 06:03 PM
I would go. I fully support the cause and would be willing to die for it. I've supported it from day 1, and will continue to support it.
Though I'm not old enough to go over there...
Frndlefire
02-24-2006, 06:12 PM
I would go. I fully support the cause and would be willing to die for it. I've supported it from day 1, and will continue to support it.
Though I'm not old enough to go over there...well don't worry...we're probably not leaving for a good 5+ years...you'll have your chance.
ohlax51
02-24-2006, 06:34 PM
i would dodge because i dont want to be in a war i dont think we need to fight. Even though i wanna go n kill iraqi's (sp?) for what they did to us, i dont think we need to b there
what exactly did they do to us? i dont remember the iraqi people ever doing anything to us. u are alot like bush u support war and the killing of innocents but your too much of sissy to actually serve your country
OutBurst
02-24-2006, 06:38 PM
If I was called upon to serve my country, I would.
zachm90
02-24-2006, 06:40 PM
I would definitely go. I don't agree with the reason for starting the war, but if i was drafted, i would go and support my country.
truste1
02-24-2006, 06:42 PM
what exactly did they do to us? i dont remember the iraqi people ever doing anything to us. u are alot like bush u support war and the killing of innocents but your too much of sissy to actually serve your country
I agree that the Iraqi people have not anything to us; however, your comparison to Bush is, for lack of a better word, stupid. It's very obvious that the intention of this war (although the term "war" is used incorrectly as there's no official enemy) is not to kill civilians. In fact, the foot soldiers are not even allowed to fire unless they have a sure shot at an insurgent just to help minimize civilian casualties. And I'm not sure why people oppose war so much, thanks to war many evils have been lessened or removed. For example, American slavery, Fascism, Naziism, etc.
well don't worry...we're probably not leaving for a good 5+ years...you'll have your chance.
Yes, and I'd serve proudly. I fullheartedly agree with the cause and agree with the betterment of Iraq and the life of Iraqis. We've done great things there already, and despite what you may think many people there are extremely grateful. It just so happens that a few radicals with differing opinions are who get all the news coverage, sort of like in the US where murderers get press coverage but not the guy doing good deeds in his community.
Frndlefire
02-24-2006, 06:49 PM
Yes, and I'd serve proudly. I fullheartedly agree with the cause and agree with the betterment of Iraq and the life of Iraqis. We've done great things there already, and despite what you may think many people there are extremely grateful. It just so happens that a few radicals with differing opinions are who get all the news coverage, sort of like in the US where murderers get press coverage but not the guy doing good deeds in his community.
slow down fella... if you've been reading the political threads you'd know I agree we're doing good things. Was just pointing out you will have your chance to enlist for this war (if it's not a war why does Bush have war time president powers?)
truste1
02-24-2006, 07:02 PM
slow down fella... if you've been reading the political threads you'd know I agree we're doing good things. Was just pointing out you will have your chance to enlist for this war (if it's not a war why does Bush have war time president powers?)
Yeah, I've tried to stay out of most of the political discussions here. I've decided to either a) bite my tounge when reading the threads or b) not read them at all. In any case I'm glad you agree and I apologize for thinking you didn't.
At your second point, I don't know why he does but the war has been "officially" over since Bush declared it a success and said it was over. We're now just facing an insurgency, I'm fairly certain that it's only "war" when it's between two states.
drifter8027
02-26-2006, 06:47 PM
i have read in many other threads on this that many people believe this to be a war protecting others from an evil dictator....so that basically means that we're fighting for a different country not usa right? that's basically why i would dodge because we are wasting money and lives on something that's not our fight
ramslac05
02-26-2006, 06:59 PM
so pretty much everyone here would let thousands of innocent ppl die because of some lunatic dictator
plus how could u onestly not go and fight with all the other americans who are over there
thats just being a coward if u dont go
Frndlefire
02-26-2006, 07:10 PM
mods...why can't we delete posts yet?
drifter8027
02-27-2006, 12:56 PM
so pretty much everyone here would let thousands of innocent ppl die because of some lunatic dictator
yeah rather than thousands of innocent americans dying protecting those people.
truste1
02-27-2006, 05:23 PM
i have read in many other threads on this that many people believe this to be a war protecting others from an evil dictator....so that basically means that we're fighting for a different country not usa right? that's basically why i would dodge because we are wasting money and lives on something that's not our fight
It comes with the territory of being a world power, we have to protect those people that can't protect themselves. It's like in the movies where some big popular jock stands up for the little nerdy kid, the big popular jock wouldn't have been able to make any difference if he didn't hold that status.
Frndlefire
02-27-2006, 05:34 PM
It comes with the territory of being a world power, we have to protect those people that can't protect themselves. It's like in the movies where some big popular jock stands up for the little nerdy kid, the big popular jock wouldn't have been able to make any difference if he didn't hold that status.
this argument doesn't hold water with me though. If this really was our responcibility why do we ignore so many other bad things and bad people happening around the world? Should I use the example of Darfur again? 200,000+ dead? Have we even recognized that there is, in fact, a genocide taking place? nope...
Coach_Goldberg
02-27-2006, 11:02 PM
Well, with the civil religious war there now, they seem to be determined to kill themselves, and we are doing our best to stay out of the way, which also is allowing the civil war to slaughter eachother. We could serve that purpose by redeploying our troops elsewhere. For instance, home.