NFHS 20-second timeout rule flaw

[Snake~eyes]

Okay so we had this dicussion at our meeting about the 20-second count and calling a timeout in the defensive end of the field. Seems that the NFHS really botched it by not also adding in the rule that a team cannot call a timeout in the defensive end. I know we have touched on it a little but how are your associations handling it? Just allowing a team to take advantage of it or what?

[LaxRef]

Okay so we had this dicussion at our meeting about the 20-second count and calling a timeout in the defensive end of the field. Seems that the NFHS really botched it by not also adding in the rule that a team cannot call a timeout in the defensive end. I know we have touched on it a little but how are your associations handling it? Just allowing a team to take advantage of it or what?

Personally, I don't see it to be such a tremendous problem. The only time this is going to be an issue is when a team has possession in their defensive end with less than a minute in the game and one or two timeouts remaining. And even then they need to maintain possession of the ball and call their timeout before the buzzer goes off. True, it might allow them to kill off the last minute a little more easily, but they could do the same thing if they had the ball in the offensive end (they just wouldn't be able to kill off as much time in the offensive end). And a priori, there's no reason to believe this favors one team or another before the game starts.

Or is there some other problem with a timeout in the defensive end?

[eme]

What I am decreeing in my area is, if I may paraphrase LaxRef's better prose, ball location on re-starts determines the count. This is an easy concept to remember and to explain to coaches. Yes, some smart middie with a 10-sec. count getting to eight might have the presence of mind to drop back three yards over the midfield line and call a TO...but it isn't going to happen much if at all. And yes, a team ahead can kill a bit more time by staying in the def. end and playing catch and then when it gets to 17 or 18 call a TO and get a new 20-on the restart. If they are that smart and that good with handling the ball with the other team riding like crazy ...more power to them. And as Laxref says...the option is available to both teams at the start of the game.
I think this is the best way to handle the "void" left us by the rules committee.

[pboyd]

In NOVA we are using "possession" vice "location" so that the same count resumes no matter the location following a TO.

[laxfan25]

We just had a state rules meeting on Thursday with the same feeling - the restart count is applied for the area they have possession in when they called time out.
Other interesting things:
- A pass going over the midline will kill the 20 second count, but
- A player with possession jumping over the midline doesn't kill the count until his feet touch the ground
- A ball rolled out of the defensive half to the offensive half kills the 20
- Once in possession in the offensive half (such as by stepping on the midline on the clear) the 10 second count starts. If the ball becomes loose and is kicked back into the defensive half and the same team gains possession, you still have the initial 10 second count on (assuming the other team never gained possession).
- What gave me pause: Team A rolls the ball out of it's defensive half to kill the 20 seconds. During the resultant loose-ball scrum, the ball is knocked back into the defensive half with no team ever having gained possession. Team A picks it up again in the defensive end - new 20 second count was the group decision. Agree?

[LaxRef]

- What gave me pause: Team A rolls the ball out of it's defensive half to kill the 20 seconds. During the resultant loose-ball scrum, the ball is knocked back into the defensive half with no team ever having gained possession. Team A picks it up again in the defensive end - new 20 second count was the group decision. Agree?

That's the NCAA rule, so we might as well go with that for NFHS.

[eme]

Last year's experience in the college game with the 20-sec. count showed that 20 seconds was more than enough time to clear. Very few violations.And generally we weren't too eagle-eyed as to one step on midline=over, one step over midline= over, ballin flight over the line=over. It just didn't seem a problem. "Close enough was good enough" seemed to be the practice. After all, it isn't as if the the clearing team is "getting away with something" because their reward for crossing the midline, no matter how liberally we chose to define it, was the start of a 10-sec. count.

[laxfan25]

eme, I agree with all of your comments, and I don't remember having any 20 second violations last year - in fact, I was always surprised when my forgotten timer would go off after the clear, and I'd think "that's an awfully long time!".
I was more interested in my thought pattern about the rolled ball going into the attack half and then returing to the defensive half - getting another 20 second count is the only logical choice - but it did make me wonder at first!

[LaxRef]

I was more interested in my thought pattern about the rolleded ball going into the attack half and then returing to the defensive half - getting another 20 second count is the only logical choice - but it did make me wonder at first!

Personally, I think you should only get one bite at the apple: that is, one 20-count period unless the other team has an intervening possession. But that's obviously not what we're doing.

BTW, I think I had a few 20-second violations, but not many, and they were mostly early in the season.