Request for Equip. Check

[Woodenstick]

Under rule 4-30 (NFHS) a coach may request an equipment check during a dead ball. After the first (free) check, the requesting team is penalized for a TO if the equipment is OK, per rule 6-5-2(O).

My question is related to the last sentence in 40-30-1(b), which states: "No penalty is incurred by [sic, should be "for"] a second or subsequent [equipment check] requests during a charged TO or between periods."

As I read this, every time a team calls a TO, they are entitled to request an equipment check and are not dinged for a TO if the equipment is OK. Also, between every period, the coach can request an equipment check and not get dinged for a TO if the equipment is OK.

1. Is my reading correct? (If not, is a rewrite in order?)

2. Assuming my reading is right, what is the procedure if the request is between periods when the officials are already doing their own check? Do we check 2 players from the opposing team or just one?

3. What is the time-frame for requesting a check during a TO? If the coach waits until the end of the TO, this will delay the game while the equipment check is done, so do we require the reequest be made at the beginning of the TO?

[eme]

Bingo. You have hit the part of the Fed. rulebook (used to be in ncaa book) that no one could explain.

First, though, a coach gets charged a TO on a second request IF THE FIRST REQUEST came up legal. Better said: any time there is a legal stick/equipment on a check....any ensuing checks on that team that come up legal...the coach calling for the check is assessed a TO (or technical if none left).

Regarding 40-30-1b...a rewrite or deletion is in order. No one understands it. No one follows it. Disregard it.

[laxfan25]

I guess the feeling was, "if I'm already in a timeout, I should be allowed a stick check, since the cost of a passing inspection is a timeout anyway." If he was to ask for a specific stick between periods, I would do that as well as the ones you've selected.
I've never had either of these occur (and didn't even know that was written in there!), and eme's advice is good. However, if it was CoachRob in the box and he knew it was in the rules, I don't think you could just blow him off, no?

[section vi lax]

3. What is the time-frame for requesting a check during a TO? If the coach waits until the end of the TO, this will delay the game while the equipment check is done, so do we require the reequest be made at the beginning of the TO?


This brings an interesting situation that I have not incured yet. Most times coaches are not clear on this and think that they have to lose a time out for requesting a stick check. If I am correct (will find out with later posts) Coach uses his "free" stick check with no equiptment violations found. Later the same coach calls for a time out then asked an offical for a stick check on #23 and is found to have no equiptment violations. Coach will be assesed two time outs, one that he called and one for stick check call. :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

[laxfan25]

3. What is the time-frame for requesting a check during a TO? If the coach waits until the end of the TO, this will delay the game while the equipment check is done, so do we require the reequest be made at the beginning of the TO?


This brings an interesting situation that I have not incured yet. Most times coaches are not clear on this and think that they have to lose a time out for requesting a stick check. If I am correct (will find out with later posts) Coach uses his "free" stick check with no equiptment violations found. Later the same coach calls for a time out then asked an offical for a stick check on #23 and is found to have no equiptment violations. Coach will be assesed two time outs, one that he called and one for stick check call. :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

Based on what the quoted rule says "No penalty is incurred by [sic, should be "for"] a second or subsequent [equipment check] requests during a charged TO", it would appear that there is no additional timeout charged for the equipment check request, even if it turns up nothing. He has used up the TO anyway.

[Boog]

3. What is the time-frame for requesting a check during a TO? If the coach waits until the end of the TO, this will delay the game while the equipment check is done, so do we require the reequest be made at the beginning of the TO?


I think this is a great question. What is the answer? I can see waiting until near the end of a timeout, requesting a stickcheck, and in effect, getting another minute or two of game stoppage while the stick is checked with no additional timeout being charged. A brilliant (potentially??) manipulation of rule if your team needs some extra time to plan (or in my mens club's case - try to catch our breath.) Does anyone have an answer to this?

[LaxRef]

Bingo. You have hit the part of the Fed. rulebook (used to be in ncaa book) that no one could explain.

First, though, a coach gets charged a TO on a second request IF THE FIRST REQUEST came up legal. Better said: any time there is a legal stick/equipment on a check....any ensuing checks on that team that come up legal...the coach calling for the check is assessed a TO (or technical if none left).

Regarding 40-30-1b...a rewrite or deletion is in order. No one understands it. No one follows it. Disregard it.


And yet, there was a suggestion submitted to clean this up that was ignored!

[Woodenstick]

Hopefully no coaches other than Coach Rob monitor this forum, and he is sworn not to reveal anything here after taking the sacred referee oath and drinking from the sacred referee mug... Therefore we don't have to worry about this. thumbsup:

[LaxRef]

Hopefully no coaches other than Coach Rob monitor this forum, and he is sworn not to reveal anything here after taking the sacred referee oath and drinking from the sacred referee mug... Therefore we don't have to worry about this.

CoachRob isn't even coaching anymore, so I think we're safe!

[3rdPersonPlural]

he is sworn not to reveal anything here after taking the sacred referee oath ....

There's nothing secret about the oaths I have to take every time I make a call that goes against the home team. Oaths and cusses delivered at the top of the fan's lungs, as I recall.....

[Stubs]

Looking at this another way, a smart coach can gain a third time out as the clock counts down in the 4th quarter. He has used two time outs, yet now desperately wants a time-out to get the boys in to talk to them about a play. The coach gains the attention of the trail, and asks for an equipment check on the defenseman covering his attackman. The official communicates this to the lead, and the lead starts his equipment check on the D-man. The coach remains in his box, gathers his players around him on the coach's box, and calls the play.

Any problem with this?

[eme]

Back when I was coaching and had 5 middies total on the hs team, I did this many times. I always chose the D man farthest away from the table area so even more time would be used tracking him down.

[laxfan25]

Looking at this another way, a smart coach can gain a third time out as the clock counts down in the 4th quarter. He has used two time outs, yet now desperately wants a time-out to get the boys in to talk to them about a play. The coach gains the attention of the trail, and asks for an equipment check on the defenseman covering his attackman. The official communicates this to the lead, and the lead starts his equipment check on the D-man. The coach remains in his box, gathers his players around him on the coach's box, and calls the play.

Any problem with this?
First, he'd have to wait for a dead ball - you're not going to get a whistle to stop play just to do the check. If the equipment is OK (very likely), his team would give up the ball (or possibly get a 30 sec technical), so he'd better be setting up a defensive play while talking to his team.

[LaxRef]

First, he'd have to wait for a dead ball - you're not going to get a whistle to stop play just to do the check. If the equipment is OK (very likely), his team would give up the ball (or possibly get a 30 sec technical), so he'd better be setting up a defensive play while talking to his team.

So, wait, you'd give a technical foul if the "free" equipment check didn't turn up any violations? :WTF:

Around here, you get a free check, with no technical foul assessed even if the equipment is legal. The second time you check a guy who's legal, you get charged a timeout or, if none remain, a technical.

I agree that all equipment check requests must be done during a dead ball.

Also, if this is what the coach wants to use his check for (to get a "free" timeout), I have nothing to say about it. But I wouldn't check a defenseman; if you check an attackman or a middie you might actually find an illegal crosse, or you can ask them to check the goalie since they won't remember what the measurements are and it will take them an extra minute to figure it out!

[laxfan25]

So, wait, you'd give a technical foul if the "free" equipment check didn't turn up any violations? :WTF:

Around here, you get a free check, with no technical foul assessed even if the equipment is legal. The second time you check a guy who's legal, you get charged a timeout or, if none remain, a technical.

I agree that all equipment check requests must be done during a dead ball.

Also, if this is what the coach wants to use his check for (to get a "free" timeout), I have nothing to say about it. But I wouldn't check a defenseman; if you check an attackman or a middie you might actually find an illegal crosse, or you can ask them to check the goalie since they won't remember what the measurements are and it will take them an extra minute to figure it out!
Doh! I was assuming they had already had a check done - my bad! Correct again, o wise one! :worship:
(Isn't it kind of scary that I'm actually doing a six-hour training class for new officials tomorrow? Makes you wonder what they'll learn, and also clears up why there are so many mistaken interpretations out there. :agree: )

[eme]

LaxRef wrote:
"The second time you check a guy who's legal, you get charged a timeout or, if none remain, a technical."

Hmmm...not exactly. If a PREVIOUS check on the same team had come up legal, then ANY ensuing checks on that team that come up legal will result in loss of TO or
Technical. i.e. "You get one freebie." If they keep coming up illegal...you keep getting that one freebie.

I bet we could could simplify this rule and simplify this wording.

[LaxRef]

LaxRef wrote:
"The second time you check a guy who's legal, you get charged a timeout or, if none remain, a technical."

Hmmm...not exactly. If a PREVIOUS check on the same team had come up legal, then ANY ensuing checks on that team that come up legal will result in loss of TO or
Technical. i.e. "You get one freebie." If they keep coming up illegal...you keep getting that one freebie.

I bet we could could simplify this rule and simplify this wording.

I think we are, as you say, "in heated agreement." The second time you check a guy who is legal (has no violations)—and, of course, all subsequent times—there's a charged timeout or technical foul. In other words, at some point in the game, you check A1 and he's legal. Then at any other time, regardless of how many equipment checks have turned up illegal equipment and when those checks occurred, if you check A2 and he's legal, there's a charged timeout or a technical foul.

As to simplifying it, this was my (unused) suggestion from last year:


4-29 Illegal Equipment—Head Coach’s Request for Official’s Inspection
Any player is subject to having his equipment inspected by an official upon request. Once the game has commenced, a head coach may request the inspection of the equipment of any player on the opposing team (deleted--->without incurring a penalty (i.e., a “free” check).<---deleted) A head coach’s request for an equipment inspection must refer to a specific player and must occur during a dead ball.

The following procedures apply to the inspection of a player’s crosse upon the request of a head coach:

a. Only one player’s equipment may be inspected per request,(added--->, and only one request may be made by each head coach during each dead ball.<---added) All aspects of the equipment construction and dimensions will be considered.

b. (deleted--->If a head coach makes a second or subsequent request, and all equipment is found to be legal, that head coach's team will be penalized as provided for in Rule 6-5-15, assuming no violations were found in a previous request. <---deleted) (added--->A head coach may make one request per game that fails to uncover an illegal crosse or other equipment violation (i.e., a "free" check). Further requests which fail to uncover violations will be penalized as provided for in Rule 6-6-o.<---added)

Comments: The current wording is a bit confusing. Many people don't understand that if you request two checks that find illegal equipment, then one that doesn't find illegal equipment, that third check is your "free" check. In other words, they think that the first check is the free one whether it is successful or not. This wording clears that up.

Limiting the requests to one per team per dead ball is critical. Otherwise, a coach that is losing can go on a "fishing expedition," holding up the game indefinitely as he has player after player inspected, trying to get a cheap penalty.