nj raises legal tobacco purchase age to 19

[Fartman]

I don't know if anyone started a thread on this, but effective on April 15, 2006, the legal age to purchase tobacco products will be raised to 19. I think this is absolutely crazy. Yes, smoking/dipping/chewing is bad for you, but I think at age 18, you are responsible and mature enough to make your own educated decision. At age 18, I could get shipped over to Iraq, fight, get wounded, and then come home and not be able to buy a tin of dip or a pack of smokes. Anyone else think that's nuts? I do... God, I hate my state.

* DO NOT just turn this into a tobacco is the devil campaign either. I don't care if you don't use tobacco and hate everyone that does. Debate whether or not an 18 year-old should have the right to purchase tobacco. *

[Frndlefire]

i just wonder why? This age difference on its own isn't going to do much, so the only reason I can think they would do this is that some highschoolers turn 18 while still in school and they don't want them buying for their younger schoolmates or somesuch BS

[unta8]

thats retarded. What is reason for this?

[BeaverFondu]

I'd like some proof please. A link please?

[Hooligan]

Our basic freedoms are going out the door. Tobacco products should be the least of your worries, but honestly it does pretty much outline exactly what the government is doing. They claim to know whats best for us, better than we do.

Censorship, phone tapping, my google searches revealed...sooner or later they might as well take the constitution out behind the shed and take a crap on it.

^^^thats the most political thing I've ever said on this message board. So, if you don't like it, do not go around saying that I'm always blowing off my stack like this!

[Fartman]

Frndlefire got one reason. Another reason is that they say it's too hard to differentiate an 18 year old from a 17 or 16 year-old. Have they heard of ID?

[Fartman]

Our basic freedoms are going out the door. Tobacco products should be the least of your worries, but honestly it does pretty much outline exactly what the government is doing. They claim to know whats best for us, better than we do.

Censorship, phone tapping, my google searches revealed...sooner or later they might as well take the constitution out behind the shed and take a crap on it.

^^^thats the most political thing I've ever said on this message board. So, if you don't like it, do not go around saying that I'm always blowing off my stack like this!

well said. i completely agree. this is just another example of the basic freedoms our government is depriving us of, one by one, little by little.

[JoshM]

Our basic freedoms are going out the door. Tobacco products should be the least of your worries, but honestly it does pretty much outline exactly what the government is doing. They claim to know whats best for us, better than we do.

Censorship, phone tapping, my google searches revealed...sooner or later they might as well take the constitution out behind the shed and take a crap on it.

^^^thats the most political thing I've ever said on this message board. So, if you don't like it, do not go around saying that I'm always blowing off my stack like this!
Man, I totally agree with you about everything but the tobacco part. No where in our constitution does it say you have the right to buy cigarettes at the age of 18. If anything, the constitution upholds the state's right to set this law.

[Formerlaxdemon]

This isn't a matter of the Federal Government, but rather the New Jersey State Legislature making this decision. It's probably an attempt to curb underage smoking which to some (especially the obsessesive anti-smoking club) is a frightening problem. Although I see their perspective in the matter, if a legal adult wishes to do something legal, why change the tables? If anything, this will not hinder sales but rather increase black market goods. Minors have always and will always purchase what they want inside or outside of the law. This won't stop anything, but will prove that the NJ state government prioritizes tobacco rather too high on their list of problems.

[Krypt0M4g!c]

If you really want tobacco, you can get it. It's not that big of a deal. I don't smoke tobacco, but a struggling shop owner would be willing to sell me anything. I could buy honey dutch cigars and other types at age 16 heh.

[unta8]

If you really want tobacco, you can get it. It's not that big of a deal. I don't smoke tobacco, but a struggling shop owner would be willing to sell me anything. I could buy honey dutch cigars and other types at age 16 heh.
I could get cigarettes, dip, pipes, bongs, hookahs, cigars, beer, porn, all that stuff, at 15. It pays to live in a big city.

[Fartman]

If you really want tobacco, you can get it. It's not that big of a deal. I don't smoke tobacco, but a struggling shop owner would be willing to sell me anything. I could buy honey dutch cigars and other types at age 16 heh.

i know that most stores don't card if your look 16+, and anybody who is 18 will easily be able to buy tobacco, but it's just the princible of it that bothers me.

[enjoi]

Our basic freedoms are going out the door. Tobacco products should be the least of your worries, but honestly it does pretty much outline exactly what the government is doing. They claim to know whats best for us, better than we do.

Censorship, phone tapping, my google searches revealed...sooner or later they might as well take the constitution out behind the shed and take a crap on it.

^^^thats the most political thing I've ever said on this message board. So, if you don't like it, do not go around saying that I'm always blowing off my stack like this!
Holy jesus we know something is up if Hooli is getting all political, VIVA LA REVOLUCION.

Also: this law is stupid.

[footballplayar3]

i think drinking tobaco pot cocaine any of that stuif should be all legalized at 18 why because its your body you should be bale to deicde what you put in it

[Hooligan]

i know that most stores don't card if your look 16+, and anybody who is 18 will easily be able to buy tobacco, but it's just the princible of it that bothers me.
I can go out right now and buy some crack, but that doesn't make it legal. My point isn't figuring out what you can and can't buy and how difficult it would be after things are made illegal. I think we all could figure out how to get cigarettes if we wanted, before we turn 18, 19 or any age they choose to make the new limit.

But my original statement is that I'm sick and tired of our government (state, local, federal, etc) deciding whats good for me. If I want to buy 15 packs of cigs, and stuff em in my mouth and light them all at once, by God I want that friggin right! I know what the purpose of this law is. Its made to promote the overall health of the state. It will work for all its purposes. But little by little, our rights are being stolen from us.

[sweet_ceX]

At age 18, I could get shipped over to Iraq, fight, get wounded, and then come home and not be able to buy a tin of dip or a pack of smokes.

LOL. Head of State quote run-off. Except Chris Rock says it about alcohol.

[aussielax]

I'd be a whole lot more worried about the drinking age in the US, i mean 21 are u freaking serious? the drinking age down here is 18 and i think it should be lowered.

Personaly i don't think it will change much there are always going to be struggling shopkeers that will run the risk of getting busted to make usm extra money and kids are always going to be able to get there hands on fake ID or get their older freinds to buy it for them.

[ColtsLax]

Ive followed this closely, and the reson is that there seems to be a rise in 18 year old selling or buying tobacco prducts to kids in HS. The idea is that at 19, you are no longer in HS, so it would be harder for minors to get a hold of tobacco.

We should just change the age of majority back to 21. make things easier.

[unta8]

i think drinking tobaco pot cocaine any of that stuif should be all legalized at 18 why because its your body you should be bale to deicde what you put in it
Thats stupid. You dont fully mature at 18. I'm as pro-legalization as anyone you will find, but cocaine is a ridiculously addictive drug, and shouldn't be legal anywhere. If it's your body, you should be able to drink, and smoke since the day your born, Not true.

[The Chariot]

Ok, I've been saying this for years, and I think it applies here:

Get outta Jersey.

[ColtsLax]

Ok, I've been saying this for years, and I think it applies here:

Get outta Jersey.
ive got 5 month, then its off to college, and im never lookin back, plus, tony soprano is starting to make me nervous, hes not the best neighbor

[RockStar]

Thats stupid. You dont fully mature at 18. .......
You don't necessarily fully mature at 19, or 21 either, these laws are arbitrary.

My thoughts:

If you can vote at 18, if you can drive a car at 18, if you can kill someone for your country at 18, you're old enough to have a beer and a smoke if you want one.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Frndlefire got one reason. Another reason is that they say it's too hard to differentiate an 18 year old from a 17 or 16 year-old. Have they heard of ID?

And like 19 looks any different from 18.

[aussielax]

We should just change the age of majority back to 21. make things easier.

Or they could just change to 18.

[ColtsLax]

Or they could just change to 18.
why, the age of majority had been 21, then they changed it to 18, then the Alcohol back to 21. Lets just go back to the way things used to be.

[KnightsLAXDad]

I can go out right now and buy some crack, but that doesn't make it legal. My point isn't figuring out what you can and can't buy and how difficult it would be after things are made illegal. I think we all could figure out how to get cigarettes if we wanted, before we turn 18, 19 or any age they choose to make the new limit.

But my original statement is that I'm sick and tired of our government (state, local, federal, etc) deciding whats good for me. If I want to buy 15 packs of cigs, and stuff em in my mouth and light them all at once, by God I want that friggin right! I know what the purpose of this law is. Its made to promote the overall health of the state. It will work for all its purposes. But little by little, our rights are being stolen from us.

First of all I want to state I could care less about 18 vs. 19. Second the "they can do it/get it anyways" is the lamest reasoning ever. People still murder other people even though it's illegal, so we don't need murder laws......please.

To play devil's advocate here, if it were simply a case of you doing something in isolation then knock yourself out. The issue with things such as alcohol, tobacco, crack etc is that more often than not, they impact numerous others, and place a burden on the social system, such as hospitals (when you get cancer or effects of second hand smoke on others), police (because crack is illegal, and alcohol make people do stupid things). These things all take money to run and/or administer which ultimately comes back to you and me through taxes, and nobody likes taxes either.

It wouldn't be an issue if when you engage in a harmful activity you give up the right to any government sponsered care for the after effects, ah but then again, that would go against the principle of the government being in place to protect it's citizens. Besides, in a democratic society, if you don't like it, you have the ability (admittedly quite difficult) to either throw the gov't out altogether, or have the laws changed. All you need is enough support against it.

[ColtsLax]

You don't necessarily fully mature at 19, or 21 either, these laws are arbitrary.

My thoughts:

If you can vote at 18, if you can drive a car at 18, if you can kill someone for your country at 18, you're old enough to have a beer and a smoke if you want one.exactly, thats why we should make it one standard age, 21

[Thrillhouse]

I would think that this would be a rather big news story, but the only article I could find is this (http://www.csnews.com/csn/search/article_display.jsp?schema=&vnu_content_id=1001847308&WebLogicSession=Q1yNAY1e0qIISK1jQ1p25DowUBzl7UcgQ1 JQ9foRxhuCLTn961u2%7C90619891997092436/177738805/6/7005/7005/7002/7002/7005/-1) . (Who am I to question the journalistic standards of Convenience Store News, but Richard Codey hasn’t been the governor of New Jersey since January 17, 2006.)

[ColtsLax]

(Who am I to question the journalistic standards of Convenience Store News, but Richard Codey hasn’t been the governor of New Jersey since January 17, 2006.)He hasnt been the Gov since then, but he signed the bill into law when he was in office, it just goes into effect after he got out. Its his baby, and he has been pushing it, just like the indoor smoking ban.

[H-townlaxer]

I don't know if anyone started a thread on this, but effective on April 15, 2006, the legal age to purchase tobacco products will be raised to 19. I think this is absolutely crazy. Yes, smoking/dipping/chewing is bad for you, but I think at age 18, you are responsible and mature enough to make your own educated decision. At age 18, I could get shipped over to Iraq, fight, get wounded, and then come home and not be able to buy a tin of dip or a pack of smokes. Anyone else think that's nuts? I do... God, I hate my state.

* DO NOT just turn this into a tobacco is the devil campaign either. I don't care if you don't use tobacco and hate everyone that does. Debate whether or not an 18 year-old should have the right to purchase tobacco. *

that sucks, i am counting down the days till i am 18 so i can legally by dip.

[Hooligan]

To play devil's advocate here, if it were simply a case of you doing something in isolation then knock yourself out. The issue with things such as alcohol, tobacco, crack etc is that more often than not, they impact numerous others, and place a burden on the social system, such as hospitals (when you get cancer or effects of second hand smoke on others), police (because crack is illegal, and alcohol make people do stupid things). These things all take money to run and/or administer which ultimately comes back to you and me through taxes, and nobody likes taxes either.
Here's another great question...since we're on this:

Tobacco and Alcohol are two of the most dangerous drugs in our country, yet these two drugs (which are more addictive than 90% of the other illegal drugs on the market) are legal to people after a certain age....yet we continue to keep marijuana illegal, which shows few if any dependency problems, and has side effects similar to those of alcohol.

Now I'm not trying to start the whole "make pot legal" thing. What I am trying to point out is that tobacco and alcohol are far more dangerous than other drugs on the market. The only drug known to man thats more addictive than these two is (believe it or not) caffine, which is also legal...for people of all ages. Now caffine isn't exactly a drug that carries with it the side effects of a drug like Heroin, but it is something that all children including the young and impressionable ones, are subjected to. Its one of the reasons why children are overweight (sodas carry loads of useless calories).

Look...I can see that there are definitely two sides to this issue, and I'm not going to get sucked into a political debate. Here's the deal. This (my above message) is where I stand. So, hopefully I've made some worthwhile points for you all to mull over.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Here's another great question...since we're on this:

Tobacco and Alcohol are two of the most dangerous drugs in our country, yet these two drugs (which are more addictive than 90% of the other illegal drugs on the market) are legal to people after a certain age....yet we continue to keep marijuana illegal, which shows few if any dependency problems, and has side effects similar to those of alcohol.

Now I'm not trying to start the whole "make pot legal" thing. What I am trying to point out is that tobacco and alcohol are far more dangerous than other drugs on the market. The only drug known to man thats more addictive than these two is (believe it or not) caffine, which is also legal...for people of all ages. Now caffine isn't exactly a drug that carries with it the side effects of a drug like Heroin, but it is something that all children including the young and impressionable ones, are subjected to. Its one of the reasons why children are overweight (sodas carry loads of useless calories).

Look...I can see that there are definitely two sides to this issue, and I'm not going to get sucked into a political debate. Here's the deal. This (my above message) is where I stand. So, hopefully I've made some worthwhile points for you all to mull over.

Tobacco is more deadly then heroin?

[Hooligan]

Did I say that? Some people need to read much much better. I said tobacco is more ADDICTIVE than heroin. Thats far different than deadly. But thanks for playing.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Here's another great question...since we're on this:

Tobacco and Alcohol are two of the most dangerous drugs in our country, yet these two drugs (which are more addictive than 90% of the other illegal drugs on the market) are legal to people after a certain age....yet we continue to keep marijuana illegal, which shows few if any dependency problems, and has side effects similar to those of alcohol.

Now I'm not trying to start the whole "make pot legal" thing. What I am trying to point out is that tobacco and alcohol are far more dangerous than other drugs on the market. The only drug known to man thats more addictive than these two is (believe it or not) caffine, which is also legal...for people of all ages. Now caffine isn't exactly a drug that carries with it the side effects of a drug like Heroin, but it is something that all children including the young and impressionable ones, are subjected to. Its one of the reasons why children are overweight (sodas carry loads of useless calories).

Look...I can see that there are definitely two sides to this issue, and I'm not going to get sucked into a political debate. Here's the deal. This (my above message) is where I stand. So, hopefully I've made some worthwhile points for you all to mull over.

That's just what I saw. How is tobacco more dangerous than heroin? And tobacco and alcohol are hardly as addictive as heroin.

[slinkyspine]

That's just what I saw. How is tobacco more dangerous than heroin? And tobacco and alcohol are hardly as addictive as heroin.
Wrong.
It is more dangerous and addictive. More people die form tobbacco than heroin so its more dangerous. Many less use heroin though. And Tobbacco is one of the most adictive drugs far worse than heroin, infact its more addicting than coke.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

No, you can get addicted to heroin first try. It's different with cigarettes. Have you ever smoked? You dont get addicted after your first cig.

[slinkyspine]

No, you can get addicted to heroin first try. It's different with cigarettes. Have you ever smoked? You dont get addicted after your first cig.
Actually you could. Rare. Also its harder to quit cigs than heroin, more addictive. Heroin is eaiser to get addicted too. Cigs are harder to quit though

[middieman1]

When you try to quit heroin you go through crazy withdrawl. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen with tobacco.

[Hooligan]

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Are you serious? Smoke for a year, and tell me how easy it is to quit.

[The Chariot]

Wrong.
It is more dangerous and addictive. More people die form tobbacco than heroin so its more dangerous. Many less use heroin though. And Tobbacco is one of the most adictive drugs far worse than heroin, infact its more addicting than coke.
WTF? How can you say tobbacco (WRONG nicotine is actually the addicting agent) is more addictive than coke? Nicotine does different things to everyone. To some, it may be more addicting than coke, for some, it might not be addicting at all. The only time I've smoked is when I've been drinking, I've had a few and have no intention of picking it up (while I'm sober). Some kids are addicted after 1 cig. On the other hand, I've seen a smoker of 1 year (good friend, chose g/f over cigs) JUST QUIT cold turkey and hasn't look back. Believe me, his girlfriend would know if he picked it back up.

Yes yes, we all know the stats. Yes yes, we know tobbacco kills more than car wrecks, crack, drinking, suicide, meth, fires, guns, rabbits, cancer, rainbows, heart diesease etc. ALL COMBINED. Doesn't make a difference. Tobbacco will never become illegal, just like how pot will NEVER become legal.

Seriously, all you deadheads, DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH. Weed will never become legal. No matter how much money the government makes or saves, no matter the SUPPOSED medical use for pot, it will never go back on itself and say "Oh, well now we say weed ISN'T a drug." All those "What's your anti-drug commericals" will look stupid and in vain. It should never become legal, and thank god it never will.

Those last 2 paragraphs weren't directed at slinky as much as they were at the "TRUTH" fascists and the stoners with their hopes high. Just had to get that out there.

[slinkyspine]

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Are you serious? Smoke for a year, and tell me how easy it is to quit.
Yep. I ain't saying it isn't hard to quit heroin. It is. Not as hard as quitting smoking though.

[BTlaxripper]

Actually you could. Rare. Also its harder to quit cigs than heroin, more addictive. Heroin is eaiser to get addicted too. Cigs are harder to quit though

Go see Rent.

With heroin withdrawal, you sweat, hallucinate, night terrors, tremors, pass out, get aggressive, incoherent, you could even die. Nobody dies from quitting cigarettes.

[slinkyspine]

Go see Rent.

With heroin withdrawal, you sweat, hallucinate, night terrors, tremors, pass out, get aggressive, incoherent, you could even die. Nobody dies from quitting cigarettes.
Hey I'm going by my D.A.R.E. textbook here. Rent? is that too be trusted

[Krypt0M4g!c]

WTF? How can you say tobbacco (WRONG nicotine is actually the addicting agent) is more addictive than coke? Nicotine does different things to everyone. To some, it may be more addicting than coke, for some, it might not be addicting at all. The only time I've smoked is when I've been drinking, I've had a few and have no intention of picking it up (while I'm sober). Some kids are addicted after 1 cig. On the other hand, I've seen a smoker of 1 year (good friend, chose g/f over cigs) JUST QUIT cold turkey and hasn't look back. Believe me, his girlfriend would know if he picked it back up.

Yes yes, we all know the stats. Yes yes, we know tobbacco kills more than car wrecks, crack, drinking, suicide, meth, fires, guns, rabbits, cancer, rainbows, heart diesease etc. ALL COMBINED. Doesn't make a difference. Tobbacco will never become illegal, just like how pot will NEVER become legal.

Seriously, all you deadheads, DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH. Weed will never become legal. No matter how much money the government makes or saves, no matter the SUPPOSED medical use for pot, it will never go back on itself and say "Oh, well now we say weed ISN'T a drug." All those "What's your anti-drug commericals" will look stupid and in vain. It should never become legal, and thank god it never will.

Those last 2 paragraphs weren't directed at slinky as much as they were at the "TRUTH" fascists and the stoners with their hopes high. Just had to get that out there.

I sure do love those anti-drug commercials, what's even better is that Free-Vibe site. DAMN that site is amusing and full of lies, misguided opinions, and pure crap.

Who really cares if certain things are legal? You won't get caught unless you are a complete moron, you can buy ANYthing you want easily. The war on drugs is a pathetic waste of money (spend ALOT for little result) Sure, cannibus, herion, cocaine etc etc won't ever be legal, big deal. There will never be a problem with supply either. Know why? It's simple, the drug business is too profitable to deminish. Go ahead, lock up the dealers you find, there are plenty more established sellers plus new people entering the scene.

I really don't understand why NJ would raise the age at all for tobacco. It isn't stopping anything.

[slinkyspine]

RockStar is godlike. I completely agree on that. If you can drive you can drink and smoke. Except I thinks that the driving age should be 18, I mean many 16's can do it but way more 18 yo's could safely.

[Visirale]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but marijuana was initially banned because the hemp derived from the plants was giving Dupont a run for its money... and Dupont and the US government are close.

If we were allowed to farm hemp, the paper crisis would be over. It is a resource that could be widely produced and has a very fast renewal rate.

I dunno... just some information my history teacher told me and he usually tends to be pretty unbiased.

I'm a libertarian, and I'm for full legalization (marijuana and other drugs) or full prohibition (including tabacco, alcohol, and even caffeine...). Most likely, neither will happen, and our country will remain the same... especially if the Christian right maintains control like they have been doing.

[slinkyspine]

Uhh. We can farm hemp. Not pot. Hemp isn't Marijuana. Hemp won't get you high, just choke you. Hemp makes really bad paper though, you can buy it anyhow

[gobluemiddie]

well, not meaning to be a spoilsport, but all the laws about being able to do things when you turn 18 are based on the mistaken belief that your brain stops growing at 18 and you are therefore as mature and thoughtful as you are ever going to be. This is not true. They have found out that the brain actually does not stop growing until you are 22 or 23. (well duh. they thought college students were as mature as they were ever going to get? i hope not) Anyway, this is part of people's argument for raising the age on all sorts of things, and I must say, I don't see any reason not to raise the minimum age, because I believe that the right to kill yourself slowly by breathing in toxic fumes is not one that really needs to be protected. However, I do realize why you're upset.

[RockStar]

Life changing decisions you can make at 18:

-Join the millitary,
-voting.

Those are pretty serious, but look at the life-changing decisions you're legally allowed to can make at age 16:

-Dropping out of school
-driving a car
-Leaving your parent's home

Now please explain to me why buying some beer or a pack of cigarettes requires more maturity than this?

[roxlax]

Life changing decisions you can make at 18:


Those are pretty serious, but look at the life-changing decisions you're legally allowed to can make at age 16:


-driving a car


Now please explain to me why buying some beer or a pack of cigarettes requires more maturity than this?

not in nj License is 17 and thats with restrictions

[centlax21]

yeah i dont see the difference. IF people want to smoke cigarettes or watever fine. Its like seatbelts. You should only be told once. If you dont wanna wear a seatbelt you are frickin retarded and are ruining the gene pool of america. If you want to smoke cigarettes who cares that your choice.

Uh to answer Rockstars question it doesnt require more maturity it just might affect society more. THe alcohol im talkin about drunk driving etc. Some laws just dont make sense. oh well

[ColtsLax]

The reason these things are, and should be restricted, is because of the impacts they have on society. If you sat in your house and got lit or smoked, i have no problem, but its when you go out in public, and can cause harm to people, that i have a problem. Drunk driving is bad enough even with the NJ gestapo on call, and secondhand smoke is no treat either. It is due to these social impacts that it should remain restricted.

AGE OF MAJORITY SHOULD BE 21

[Frndlefire]

Seriously, all you deadheads, DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH. Weed will never become legal. No matter how much money the government makes or saves, no matter the SUPPOSED medical use for pot, it will never go back on itself and say "Oh, well now we say weed ISN'T a drug." All those "What's your anti-drug commericals" will look stupid and in vain. It should never become legal, and thank god it never will.
Ok, my caveat here is that I don't smoke...so I don't want anyone to go off saying I am just some stoner hippy who "just wants to get high."

Chariot, I think you're being a little hasty when you say "never", particularly considering that, what, nine states have legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes. Also, a Zogbey (sp?) poll recently showed pretty much a statistically even split in the US adults who think marijuana should be legalized and restricted like alcohol and cigarettes. Second, it suprises me that you encourage our government to be so anal about its image that it could never go back on its positiont that marijuana is wrong (because we know they never contradict themselves http://www.mscclan.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif). But that's right...there have been no studies which show marijuana can have medical benefits...but why is this? because the gov't won't allow the studies to happen on US soil (which are the only ones that matter apparently) because if they don't take place they can't prove anything, now can they? And, have you ever watched those "what's your anti-drug" commercials? Do a little research and they look pretty stupid and in vain right now. In 2003 the gov't spent 19 billion dollars on the drug war..thank God you can't buy pot, or dangerous drugs on the street anymore. I would almost say we should be spending that 19 billion dollars on something stupid like education or poverty assistance.

[Frndlefire]

and also, you can't die directly from herion withdrawl. You may want to, but unlike withdrawl from "mother's little helper" Valium, you can't die.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Here's another great question...since we're on this:

Tobacco and Alcohol are two of the most dangerous drugs in our country, yet these two drugs (which are more addictive than 90% of the other illegal drugs on the market) are legal to people after a certain age....yet we continue to keep marijuana illegal, which shows few if any dependency problems, and has side effects similar to those of alcohol.

Now I'm not trying to start the whole "make pot legal" thing. What I am trying to point out is that tobacco and alcohol are far more dangerous than other drugs on the market. The only drug known to man thats more addictive than these two is (believe it or not) caffine, which is also legal...for people of all ages. Now caffine isn't exactly a drug that carries with it the side effects of a drug like Heroin, but it is something that all children including the young and impressionable ones, are subjected to. Its one of the reasons why children are overweight (sodas carry loads of useless calories).

Look...I can see that there are definitely two sides to this issue, and I'm not going to get sucked into a political debate. Here's the deal. This (my above message) is where I stand. So, hopefully I've made some worthwhile points for you all to mull over.


One must keep in mind that alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine despite being addictive drugs, are so entrenched in our history, hundreds or even thousands of years, that they could never be removed, and their effects are relatively benign compared to narcotics. Things like cocaine and heroine, and even marijuana have pretty much always been established as bad and will continue to remain so. As long as there are $$ to be made, just like any crime, they will continue to exist. That doesn't mean because we can't get rid of them, it should simply be legalized (the same could be said of most laws!).

As far as pot/hash, my personal opinion is that it should remain illegal, but needs to be explored for medicinal purposes. I do believe that in *some* cases, it is a stepping stone to harder drugs (I doubt you would find a coke/heroine/crack user that didn't start out smoking pot) but does not mean that everyone who does smoke will go on to hard drugs. Smoking has the same detrimental effects as tobacco, which should be banned but never will for the reasons above, where as pot has pretty much always been illegal.

[Frndlefire]

where as pot has pretty much always been illegal.
and by always you mean about 80 years...in fact, alcohol has been legal (post prohibition) for about the same amount of time that marijuana has been illegal.

[KnightsLAXDad]

and by always you mean about 80 years...in fact, alcohol has been legal (post prohibition) for about the same amount of time that marijuana has been illegal.

Prohibition was a miserable failure. It was a brief blip compared to its widespread accepted use for over a thousand years previous by virtually every culture on the planet.

As far marijuana, I don't have any real stats as to when it officially became illegal, but just as heroine was, despite being likely technically legal, was used only by a very small, very looked down upon segment of western society before it became officially illegal in western culture. People of the day, say 100-200 years ago were very "scared" of any fringe elements, or of any substances that wierded people out. Not because they understood the actual danger, more along the lines of it being the "devil's work".

[Frndlefire]

As far marijuana, I don't have any real stats as to when it officially became illegal, but just as heroine was, despite being likely technically legal, was used only by a very small, very looked down upon segment of western society before it became officially illegal in western culture. People of the day, say 100-200 years ago were very "scared" of any fringe elements, or of any substances that wierded people out. Not because they understood the actual danger, more along the lines of it being the "devil's work".
mariuana has been used for thousands of years by cultures all over the world. And by western world I assume you mean america rather than western world in its traditional sense of Europe, US, Canada, etc. as much of Europe has had a far more liberal (and perhaps more realistic) position on marijauna use. It's use in America was only looked down upon in the early 1900's when it was connected with Mexicans. During these times, particularly during the depression, racist sentiments surrounding Mexicans were high and these sentiments were used to make marijuana illegal. There are even allusions to its use in the bible. It is not some sort of scourge that has always been looked down upon by society. Furthermore, the use of cocaine and opium were widespread untill the 1900s. People did not understand the consequences of using these drugs as we do today and almost any tonic or powder sold during the time contained one of the two. Cocaine was believed to have many physical and psychological benefits (supported by high society - see Freud) and you could even buy wine fortified with cocaine (Vin Mariani being the most famous). These substances have not always been as demonized as you make them out to be. We have just grown up in a culture that has told us almost daily that they will kill you (however, conversely shoving other equally dangerous drugs down our throats for a nice penny).

[KnightsLAXDad]

OK, and yes by western I mean American and to some extent European (mostly British or under British influence). Certainly some Euro countries are much more liberal on the subject. I hadn't thought of its use in number of tonics and additives, rather I was thinking along the lines of them being used on their own for recreational purposes. I wouldn't consider their use as widespread however until the industrial age was in full swing. It simply wouldn't have been available nor affordable for the vast majority of people. By no coincidence, it was then the laws started to come into being.

[Fartman]

not in nj License is 17 and thats with restrictions

lol, not anymore. nj just passed a bill stating you have to be 18 for your liscense now. that really sucks, not that it affects me at all... but nj really is the worst state.

[navylaxfan15]

That is the best thing I've heard in a while. How about making the age never for tobacco products?

[Snake~eyes]

That is the best thing I've heard in a while. How about making the age never for tobacco products?
It should be illegal but it will never happen. And Mariajuana won't be legal anytime soon for similar reasons.

[zak]

It should be illegal but it will never happen. And Mariajuana won't be legal anytime soon for similar reasons.
? Why should tobacco be illegal? ?

[slinkyspine]

? Why should tobacco be illegal? ?
Becuase it kills millions of people a year and its basically a useless drug.


But the Government makes a killing on it and it will never gonna be illegal

[RockStar]

.............But the Government makes a killing on it and it will never gonna be illegal

Amen! Now, if they'd just stop subsidizing tobacco farmers with their tobacco tax revenues........ :chuckle:

What's the big f---ing deal anyway?

In many parts of North America, it's not like you're allowed to smoke inside anywhere, even if it's a separately ventilated room (This includes bars, and soon will include PRIVATE CLUBS at least in Ontario).

Since non-smokers do not HAVE to go anywhere where smoking is happening, (EXCEPT OUTSIDE!), any of them that complain can all just go f--- themselves. If anyone still wants to smoke, it sure ain't your problem, so leave them alone!!!

BTW - I still smoke on occasion, always outside, and away from doorways.

So, the next non-smoker that asks me to put out my cigarette is in for a surprise - It's going out IN HIS EAR!

[ColtsLax]

What's the big f---ing deal anyway?
second hand smoke is more dangerous and can cause cancer


Since non-smokers do not HAVE to go anywhere where smoking is happening, (EXCEPT OUTSIDE!), any of them that complain can all just go f--- themselves. If anyone still wants to smoke, it sure ain't your problem, so leave them alone!!!since you are in the minority, unfortunatley, your just going to have to deal with it. if you dont want to have to go outside, then just stop smoking.

[RockStar]

second hand smoke is more dangerous and can cause cancer

:read:
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SMOKE INSIDE HARDLY ANYWHERE. EVEN IF YOU WERE, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO GO TO THOSE PLACES.

since you are in the minority, unfortunatley, your just going to have to deal with it. if you dont want to have to go outside, then just stop smoking.

:read:
Where did I complain about going outside? I do it by choice.

[ColtsLax]

:read:
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SMOKE INSIDE HARDLY ANYWHERE. EVEN IF YOU WERE, NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO GO TO THOSE PLACES.



:read:
Where did I complain about going outside? I do it by choice.
im just telling you why its done

it seems like your complaining, considering you said you were going to stick in in their ear if they asked you to put out your cig.

[middieman1]

I'm preetttty sure he meant if they tell him to put it out when he's outside.

[RockStar]

I'm preetttty sure he meant if they tell him to put it out when he's outside.
This guy gets it.

[Snake~eyes]

Becuase it kills millions of people a year and its basically a useless drug.


But the Government makes a killing on it and it will never gonna be illegal
Not only that, any politician would get destroyed if he supported a ban against cigarettes. Think about the number of cigarette smokers who vote vs. the number of marajuana smokers who vote. This is why cigarettes won't ever be illegal and why marajuana won't be legal any time soon.

[franks2089]

Why don't they just legalize drinking and smoking for all ages. Everyone that wants to do either will find away, making it illegal doesnt stop anybody.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Why don't they just legalize drinking and smoking for all ages. Everyone that wants to do either will find away, making it illegal doesnt stop anybody.


Murder laws and the death penalty doesn't stop people from killing others. Should we make murder legal too? How about impaired driving? :rofl:

[franks2089]

Murder laws and the death penalty doesn't stop people from killing others. Should we make murder legal too? How about impaired driving? :rofl:
Well murder is different being drunk and not driving is way different. Smoking is only hurting yourself unless your in a crowded area.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Well murder is different being drunk and not driving is way different. Smoking is only hurting yourself unless your in a crowded area.

True, but but you have to apply the same principle to all cases. That's the foundation of the justice system. And besides, smoking and it's related illnesses are a drain on society. Smoking and smokers cannot be isolated unless you live alone in the woods somewhere and shun all medical treatment. That's the point.

[roxlax]

i just dont see why pot is illegal. how many deaths have there been due to Marijuana? little to none. unlike cocaine, heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, ectasy and other illegal narcotics it is almost impossible to overdose on pot. unless you smoke a whole pound in a day there's no way you could possibly overdose on it.

[Krypt0M4g!c]

i just dont see why pot is illegal. how many deaths have there been due to Marijuana? little to none. unlike cocaine, heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, ectasy and other illegal narcotics it is almost impossible to overdose on pot. unless you smoke a whole pound in a day there's no way you could possibly overdose on it.

A whole pound? Only way you could possible smoke a pound of cannibus in one sitting would be if it was swag. That would be 448 grams. mmmmmmm i'm just imagining what a whole pound of the unearthly spliced together ak47+Wwidow+sensei star I fully rely on would cost...... when one gram is $40. I do see why it is illegal though, it can scew you over if you don't know how to handle it. Then again, alcohol is the same way.

[aussielax]

i just dont see why pot is illegal. how many deaths have there been due to Marijuana? little to none. unlike cocaine, heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, ectasy and other illegal narcotics it is almost impossible to overdose on pot. unless you smoke a whole pound in a day there's no way you could possibly overdose on it.

Get this song by the Streets called The Irony Of It All it makes a really good comparison between the amount of damage that alcahol does to socitey compared to marijuana.

[sweet_ceX]

i just dont see why pot is illegal. how many deaths have there been due to Marijuana? little to none. unlike cocaine, heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, ectasy and other illegal narcotics it is almost impossible to overdose on pot. unless you smoke a whole pound in a day there's no way you could possibly overdose on it.
You can't die from a marijuana overdose. The lethal dose of marijuana is a 2 kilo block smashed into your head.
And like krypto said, there is no possible way someone could smoke a pound in 1 day. They'd probobly be so high they would get lazy and decide to eat instead of smoking the rest or thier throat would be so inflamed that only tid bits of air could pass through.
Swag included. Swag may be cheap and poor quality but it tends to be really harsh on your throat.

[Frndlefire]

You can't die from a marijuana overdose. The lethal dose of marijuana is a 2 kilo block smashed into your head.
And like krypto said, there is no possible way someone could smoke a pound in 1 day. They'd probobly be so high they would get lazy and decide to eat instead of smoking the rest or thier throat would be so inflamed that only tid bits of air could pass through.
Swag included. Swag may be cheap and poor quality but it tends to be really harsh on your throat.well all things aside, you'd just pass out before you even got close.

[Snake~eyes]

i just dont see why pot is illegal. how many deaths have there been due to Marijuana? little to none. unlike cocaine, heroin, alcohol, amphetamines, ectasy and other illegal narcotics it is almost impossible to overdose on pot. unless you smoke a whole pound in a day there's no way you could possibly overdose on it.
Again, there is a lot of politics involved. You may want it to be legal but a majority of the voters don't.

[unta8]

From now on can we call it Cannabis rather than marijuana? It just sounds so dirty, like the government wants it to be.

[Krypt0M4g!c]

From now on can we call it Cannabis rather than marijuana? It just sounds so dirty, like the government wants it to be.

I call it cannibus :worship:

Marijuana is spanish, and mexican cannibus blows. :agree:


Again, there is no way it is ever going to become legal now after all of the years of it being illegal. I still believe it should be more de-criminalized.

[unta8]

I honestly think we're closer to legalization than ever before. It's been severly decriminalized in many states, is legal for Medicinal purposes in 9, and is a Type-2 drug, the less punishable offenses. The DEA puts up such a great fact sheet on their website, seen here.

http://www.dea.gov/concern/marijuana_factsheet.html

First off, there isn't any weed coming from Asia to America, sorry, not happening.
It is not an illicit drug.
There has never, ever been a case of physical dependency to cannibis. It has zero addictive properties, unlike mass produced cigarettes.
If you're paying 700/lb for mersh, you're getting swindeled.
High quality sensi, which it is not refered too, doesn't sell for 6,000 a pound. Try about half that.

[RockStar]

..........

http://www.dea.gov/concern/marijuana_factsheet.html

.....
Nice fact sheet, especially the crap about smuggling from Asia......You'd have to be sh-- stupid to smuggle weed when hydro gear is cheap and plentiful.

Sadly, we're never going to see full legalization in either US or Canada.

Decriminilization of possession is a start (no one should be doing time for casual pot use), but even decrim is stupid*. Full legalization is the only thing that makes sense.

*See, if it's not a criminal offense to possess small amounts, how come it's a criminal offense to possess slightly larger amounts for sale.....it's either a tolerable vice or it isn't, it can't be criminal and non-criminal at the same time.

[ColtsLax]

*See, if it's not a criminal offense to possess small amounts, how come it's a criminal offense to possess slightly larger amounts for sale.....it's either a tolerable vice or it isn't, it can't be criminal and non-criminal at the same time.
thats why it should, and will, remain totally illegal.

What are the Pro-legalization arguments?

[Krypt0M4g!c]

I honestly think we're closer to legalization than ever before. It's been severly decriminalized in many states, is legal for Medicinal purposes in 9, and is a Type-2 drug, the less punishable offenses. The DEA puts up such a great fact sheet on their website, seen here.

http://www.dea.gov/concern/marijuana_factsheet.html

First off, there isn't any weed coming from Asia to America, sorry, not happening.
It is not an illicit drug.
There has never, ever been a case of physical dependency to cannibis. It has zero addictive properties, unlike mass produced cigarettes.
If you're paying 700/lb for mersh, you're getting swindeled.
High quality sensi, which it is not refered too, doesn't sell for 6,000 a pound. Try about half that.

AHAH, that fact sheet looks like it was written by a 10th grader. They have prices dead wrong as well.

[whslax1990]

Its absolutly retarted. All it does is piss me off more. When I get pissed, guess what i do? And its so easy to get tobacco underage anyways, its not preventing anything.

[whslax1990]

and on the cannabis topic-

http://www.norml.org/

[unta8]

and on the cannabis topic-

http://www.norml.org/
Very good site. I want to set up a Norml chapter at my high school.

[whslax1990]

Very good site. I want to set up a Norml chapter at my high school.

It really is awesome. If anybody here is to stubborn to accept the fact that cannabis is safer than most legal prescriptions then please check out the FAQ section. Youll be amazed at the difference between health class and the cold hard facts.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418

[Krypt0M4g!c]

It really is awesome. If anybody here is to stubborn to accept the fact that cannabis is safer than most legal prescriptions then please check out the FAQ section. Youll be amazed at the difference between health class and the cold hard facts.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418

Yep. I've been smokin for 2 years straight and it has been less stressful and more enjoyable than ever. I can actually enjoy the process of living. One problem I faced alot was that I was a little "too" relaxed after from comin down. The way the media and the government portrays cannibus is rediculous. It is no where near as dangerous as they want you to think, and those stingy *******s could actually make money off of it instead of wasting tons of money fighting it.