NLL New York

[Marty(Rock Fan)]

Has anyone heard any information on the new NLL team that is supposed to be in New York City?

[laxpimp]

There's supposedly supposed to be one for 2008. Hopefuly it's the return of the Saints.

[stegmakk]

Supposed to be one in the next 2 years...
Thinking is to split time between Nassau Coliseum and MSG...(horrible idea IMHO)...unless something better can be worked out

[NLLStormCA]

it will be at msg....

[tomahawks11]

i hope the saints come back.... it will be awesome having more teams in the NLL

[Hooligan]

New York is on for next year...

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=34601&highlight=official+nll+expansion+thread

[tiplax]

Supposed to be one in the next 2 years...
Thinking is to split time between Nassau Coliseum and MSG...(horrible idea IMHO)...unless something better can be worked out
i heard the same thing. hopefully ALL games will be played at the Garden. (i live closer to the garden) either way i'll prolley get season tickets

[Irishlax22]

I dont care where they play just as long as we get a team.

[WHEELAX2]

i can guarantee you taht I will be at the tryouts..

[ColtsLax]

playing on LI would be the worst, even worse then MSG. What makes them thing that a NYC franchise will work when the NJ frachise, which was right across the river, didnt? i see a spectacular crash and burn

[Irishlax22]

If they can put a team in Nyc that can win then the team could be successful. As you saw with the saints and the storm that if u are not winning, the fans wont come. The storm was never good. The saints in the last years of existence sucked. If you want fans in nyc put a winner on the field.

[RockStar]

I don't think you can relate the failure of a NJ franchise to the potential for a NYC franchise. Look at the Devils - Can't even sell out a Stanley cup finals game. Don't the Nets play out of the same arena? Last I heard, there was talk of moving them to Brooklyn.

LaX might fly in NYC, but it's going to be an uphill battle. I remember seeing that an NLL team needed to sell 8K average tickets to break even.

Well, the rent on MSG is going to be damned high, so they might need 11K or better.

[Bagattaway20]

If they can put a team in Nyc that can win then the team could be successful. As you saw with the saints and the storm that if u are not winning, the fans wont come. The storm was never good. The saints in the last years of existence sucked. If you want fans in nyc put a winner on the field.

I agree. I think new yorkers will only come to a game if there good. It's that simple. The only way new people will be properly introduced to the sport is with good solid lacrosse and not last place material

[RedBird1]

I just read in InsideLacrosse that they have approved it and they will be there for next season. I dunno why the NLL.com hasnt made something about it like they have for Chi Town

[roxlax]

I don't think you can relate the failure of a NJ franchise to the potential for a NYC franchise. Look at the Devils - Can't even sell out a Stanley cup finals game. Don't the Nets play out of the same arena? Last I heard, there was talk of moving them to Brooklyn.

sure you can. In new jersey there are more Lacrosse players and fans than there are in NYC. It'd be more practical to put a team out on Long Island where lacrosse is Popular. putting a team in the hotbeds appeals more, but the thing is. In Long Island Box Lacrosse isn't big at all and same thing with new jersey noone plays box lacrosse. It might be played more upstate like in Buffalo or Rochester but Field Lacrosse is more appealing to people in the Tri-State area. the NLL just isn't meant for New Jersey or Long Island.

[Irishlax22]

There are alot of lacrosse fans in nyc. Alot of them work in nyc. Look at where most of the MLL players work(answer:nyc). Lacrosse is like a heaven in long island but u need a good product on the field. If a Gait would have came to Saints back in the early to mid 90's there still would be a team on Li. New jersey had the same problem. They sucked. Right after they got a team their owner Jayson Williams got arrested. And that was the end of that.

[roxlax]

but on LI Box Lacrosse isn't appealing to fans as much as Field Lacrosse is. The Long Island Lizards sell out the Mitchell Athletic Center almost every game.

[Hooligan]

but on LI Box Lacrosse isn't appealing to fans as much as Field Lacrosse is. The Long Island Lizards sell out the Mitchell Athletic Center almost every game.
Then that place only holds 3,000.

The New York Saints were one of the premeir teams in the MILL, before the Gongas era. If they get a serious ownership group in there that wants them to succeed, then the Saints or whatever they'll be called, will become a solid NLL team once again.

But saying that LI fans only want to see field? Are you daft man? The MLL doesn't even like their attendance figures...how can you put so much stock in them?

[Irishlax22]

3,000 is alot different then 15,000

[roxlax]

wrong, look at this thread, has stadium specs for every mll team:

http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=40264

[Hooligan]

Right. So what you're saying is that every MLL team sells out their stadiums?

WRONG! Absolutely NO MLL team sells out. None. Boston sells 5,000 tix per game, the highest in the MLL. Their stadium holds 10,000. Point here...thats only half.

The top selling american market in the NLL sells 17,000, of a 19,000 seat stadium. By the numbers, thats 89% of the stadium, for REGULAR SEASON GAMES!

Playoff games and regular season games have historically sold out in Philadelphia, Toronto, and Denver. Thats 19,000+ tickets sold to watch lacrosse. Very impressive!

Roxlax, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong saying that MLL teams do better in america than NLL teams. Fact is that the NLL is more popular, more profitable, and more exciting than the MLL. The MLL knows it, the NCAA knows it, and by God, the NLL knows it.

The average attendance for the entire NLL (all teams averaged together) is still over 10,000 per game. The average attendance for all the MLL teams together is still under 3,000. The NLL, in that case, sells 60% more tickets than the MLL for an entire season.

Numbers you can not contend with here.

[Chamoo]

2005
Team G Total Average Stadium Cap. % Of Stad Sold
Boston Cannons 7 39,508 5,644 10000 56%
Baltimore Bayhawks 6 28,811 4,801 11000 43%
New Jersey Pride 6 *25,011 4,168 5000 83%
Long Island Lizards 5 19,355 3,871 10000 38%
Rochester Rattlers 6 22,396 3,732 13500 27%
Philadelphia Barrage 6 17,959 2,993 12000 24%
League 36 153,040 4,251
*Includes neutral-site game at Seattle (8,478)

I'd say those aren't sell out numbers.

[roxlax]

if you actually read my post it said:

but on LI Box Lacrosse isn't appealing to fans as much as Field Lacrosse is. The Long Island Lizards sell out the Mitchell Athletic Center almost every game.

where in there does it say that the MLL sells out every game. and the Mitchell Athletic Center doesn't hold 19,000. it holds 10,000 read that thread that i put the link for its been edited several times to be 100% accurate

[RedBird1]

they said in Insidelacrosse magazine it was for next year

[slinkyspine]

but on LI Box Lacrosse isn't appealing to fans as much as Field Lacrosse is. The Long Island Lizards sell out the Mitchell Athletic Center almost every game.

Well I believe right there you said that they sell it out and that they destroy boxla which they obviously don't

[Hooligan]

Besides, the New York Saints sold 15,000 per game between 1991 and 1995. In those years, they sported teams that routinely went to the playoffs, and were well advertised.

No one in LI likes boxla? I think 15,000 people per game says another story.

[roxlax]

thats was back when there was no other form of professional lacrosse. If you put a team out on the Island now we'll see who would get a high attendance per game.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

and once again hooligan. read my entire posts :

but on LI Box Lacrosse isn't appealing to fans as much as Field Lacrosse is. The Long Island Lizards sell out the Mitchell Athletic Center almost every game.

where does it say that no one in LI likes box lacrosse? nowhere

[Hooligan]

And Rox, you fail to understand what I'm saying. Your points are completely contradicting. You say that you never said that MLL teams sell out, when you clearly said that the LI Lizards did.

You also clearly never intended your argument to go this route, and you take comments out of context to make your point. I'm not arguing that field is more or less appealing than box. I know that LI is a predominently field area. But consider the fact that EVEN BEFORE THE LIZARDS WERE A WET DREAM IN JAKE STEINFELD'S BED, the attendance figures dropped like a lead balloon for the Saints. Reason? BECAUSE a man named Mike Gongas bought the Saints. He failed to promote the team, failed to pay the players and stadium, and failed to build another winner, sporting some of the worst constructed squads in NLL/MILL history.

The Lizards, have nothing to do with the NLL not being in NY for the last few years. It DOES have a lot to do with the fact that the Nassau Collussium doesn't want the NLL back because of their problems with Gongas (who is not going to be the new owner, but its hard to get past your past), and the NLL. Right now, the NLL has to construct a plan that will put a team in NY, but will have to split the time between the Collusium and Madison Square Garden. The Garden is way too expensive for any NLL team to play, and the Collusium will not allow the NLL back in its house for a full schedule, because of the problems of the past.

Thats the real story. There's no conspiracy. There's no inner mystery. New York is a huge market. The NLL wants a team there, to match up with its main office. They'll have one in 2007, and they won't contend with the Lizards.

BESIDES ALL THAT....the Lizards play in the Summer...and the Saints play in the Winter/Spring. That to me makes an immense difference.

But thanks for playing.

[roxlax]

I understand, All I was just saying is that the New York Metro Area just doesn't seem like its worth another try at the NLL. In the winter MSG is hard to schedule games at since the Rangers or Knicks play there almost every night during the week and when they're not there's Concerts or Boxing events that go on at the garden. NYC is just a hard market to sell in for sports. other sports leagues have tried to attract in that Market but they failed(such as indoor soccer and arena football) but who knows the NLL might. Like I said, I just don't think the NLL is worth giving a shot in NYC.

If they want to expand to a good market, Boston might be a better place since when the Boston Blazers existed they did attract a big crowd. Plus in Boston you have 3 arena's in the area; TD Banknorth Garden, Agannis Arena(Boston University's arena), and wherever BC Hockey and Basketball play their games at

[Hooligan]

Boston is a place that the NLL wants back into, almost as bad as NY. But the MILL burnt a lot of bridges, and the NLL hasn't done much to mend those broken ties. Fact is, that Boston is miles away from possible at this point, but NY is a reality in 2007.

I wish I could shed more light on the Boston situation, but honestly its so much more complicated, that of all the stories I've heard, I still don't have a complete picture of what actually happened up north. All I know is neither side would slow down if they saw their counter part in a cross-walk. There's just no love lost in the absence.

[roxlax]

didn't the Blazers fold due to financial reasons?

[Hooligan]

Amongst other things. The divorce was a messy one, thats one way to put it.

[Reblax44]

Why not go to Worcester or Providence then instead of Boston. I know from doing games for the Blazers those stories of we said they said stuff. I know it had to do with the Jacobs not getting their money or so the story goes and they still control the Boston Garden and unfortunately the Bruins and maybe the Blazers chance to become a NLL franchise again. I say Re rename the team New England again and move them hell the New England Patriots don't play in Boston they play in Foxboro some 30 miles from Boston. I know I know the NLL wants Boston, Boston is the center and draws from the north,south and west but Worcester isnt so bad and neither is Providence.

[ColtsLax]

the NLL team in NYC will have to be totally different then any other NLL franchise. It will have to cater to buisness men. i think that this will affect how things are done. your not going to get the same experiance that you may in a Toronto, or Calgary.

It just seems that the NLL is setting itself up for a failure. NYC will be a hard sell unless they get a Tavares or JGJ or Gait in there, and they contend every year, or almost every year. if they are not competetive, they will not succed. They also need to advertise well. I didnt even know the Storm were here until their 2nd season.

They NEED the coliseum. It is a better arena for this team. There is way to many forseable conflicts with the NHL and NBA. Unless they can get the Rangers onboard for this, they are going to have a hard time getting floor time.

[Irishlax22]

the NLL team in NYC will have to be totally different then any other NLL franchise. It will have to cater to buisness men. i think that this will affect how things are done. your not going to get the same experiance that you may in a Toronto, or Calgary.

It just seems that the NLL is setting itself up for a failure. NYC will be a hard sell unless they get a Tavares or JGJ or Gait in there, and they contend every year, or almost every year. if they are not competetive, they will not succed. They also need to advertise well. I didnt even know the Storm were here until their 2nd season.

They NEED the coliseum. It is a better arena for this team. There is way to many forseable conflicts with the NHL and NBA. Unless they can get the Rangers onboard for this, they are going to have a hard time getting floor time.

Very true But i believe a team can survive at the garden.

[RockStar]

....There is way to many forseable conflicts with the NHL and NBA. Unless they can get the Rangers onboard for this, they are going to have a hard time getting floor time.

You know, Toronto and Philly are dealing just fine as co-tenants with both NHL, NBA, concerts and whatever else. Philly also shares with another tier-two pro sport (AFL), if I'm not mistaken

It can be done, it just might mean you get some Friday nights or Saturday/Sunday afternoons rather than all Saturday nights.

[Irishlax22]

Inside Lacrosse said it was not the Dolans(owners of the knicks, rangers, MSG) that were going to own the team. So they are not going to be connected with them and will only get along if the dolans get their checks on time.

[stegmakk]

Nassau Colliseum is way outdated compared to many other arenas...(just a side note)

Personally I think the team would do better ticket sales at NC rather than MSG...I think the main thing that sunk the saints was the lack of performance which can be linked to the shoddy ownership...I think had they been run properly and played well, the team never would have left...

MSG...I have long stated the many bad things that would be associated with having a team there...let me try and think of some positives (i promise no negatives in this post)...The most obvious is that it is at the epicenter of a large transit hub...meaning its a quick trainride from LI, and NJ...it is a short subway ride for those in queens...
personally i live about a half hour from NC and I work like 5 minutes from it so commutes are easy...but for those further out east...i wonder if they would prefer packing the kids into the car then driving through traffic to the game then the gridlock getting out...or if they would prefer to just hop the LIRR...
just being in MSG offers more opportunities for promotion...more people will see it...

My only negative would be changing the locations of the team in the middle of the season...pick one and stay with it...
if you start at msg and build a fan base there then move...how many people that tried the game and liked it from NYC/NJ/etc are then going to trek to NC?
and conversley, all of a sudden marketing the team around NC when you are halfway through a season...

[Irishlax22]

getting to the nc from the city or jersey is a pain in the A**. You can get on the belt and it just wont be moving.I missed the start of a few saint games because of it.Other times your able to go 70 on it. Say you know traffic is bad in the city on a certain day you can take the train. So each arena has its pros and cons. NC is in the middle of a lacrosse hotbed. The Garden is in a big city. The List can go on.

[Chamoo]

According to my sources, the team should be announced within two weeks with a GM who is already chosen.

[Bagattaway20]

who are your sources.........

[Chamoo]

As much as I want to tell you, I would lose my privileges of getting the inside info. I can tell you he is quite reliable as he used to work with the man who will be the GM.

[Hooligan]

who are your sources.........
Thats not cool man. Pointing out the man in the shadows will only expose him. Its not smart to give away where a leak is, if you're enjoying a cup if info every so often.

[Chamoo]

Thats not cool man. Pointing out the man in the shadows will only expose him. Its not smart to give away where a leak is, if you're enjoying a cup if info every so often.

Thx Hooli... Didn't really want to say that in my post but yea.

[Bagattaway20]

Thats not cool man. Pointing out the man in the shadows will only expose him. Its not smart to give away where a leak is, if you're enjoying a cup if info every so often.

sorry.......didn't think

[RichfromBoston]

Is Shamrock lacrosse still involved as reported in Inside Lacrosse?