Defense Discrimination?

[ColtsLax]

any other defenders feel that we are being discriminated against? As time has passed, all the good defense heads are disappearing, and the good ones are priceless.

Wizard-Discontinued
X2-pinched, flexible, basically raped
Proton-see X2
Edge-DC
Revo-See X2
Triton-try and find one in a store
Profile-see trition

It just seems that as a pole, i have a harder time finding a good head. my store still carries proton+, but thats about it.

[BTlaxripper]

Revo Pro not good for you?

If that isn't the best defense head ever, I don't know what is.

Wizard comes in an honorable second place.

And X2's are ALL OVER ebay.

[laxkid891]

what about the h2 u forgot it...now slinky must hunt u down for forgetting his beloved h2

[ColtsLax]

what about the h2 u forgot it...now slinky must hunt u down for forgetting his beloved h2
but its out there, the point is that the selection of heads we once had are diminishing.

i can go back even further and go
Excalibur, turbo, ect.

i have a revo pro right now, and while its good, its definatley stiff enough, but a little to much pinch. I loved the flared open face of the razer, but that got *******ized as well

[James]

Isnt the chaos a good head what about the H2, those are both good right? I dont play defense but I think ( from reading on here) those are both great heads

[BTlaxripper]

So you're saying that the Revo Pro and discontinued Wizard/X2 replace the entire market of wide, stiff defensive heads? Absolutely not.

Revo Pro is the best D head ever? Not even close. Try the Edge/X2. Edge was the best until the X2 came around. X2 is basically the somewhat stiffer version of the Edge. Same basic shape, same offset, comparable weights. Revo Pro ranks around 6 to 8. Original Revo was a better D head than the Revo Pro. Also, the X2 is the sequel to one of the heads that changed the game. Get real, buddy...expand your horizons beyond what's out today because he's right, D-men are getting screwed.

"Get real, buddy. . ."?

Edge was never meant to be a D-head, what do you think the Edge Plus was for?

Original Revo was better? The pinch on the R-pro creates a lower pocket, and deeper, what's better for retaining the ball when you're trucking up field? Not to mention it's stiffer.

Maybe you didn't see it, but I told him that X2's are on ebay and are easy to find.

Yeah heads are getting lighter and tighter, but that doesn't mean D-men are getting screwed. Heck, a defensemen on our team uses a Cyber, and it seems to be working fine for him.

When it comes down to it, innovations in head technology are not meant for defense, you already have a 6 foot pole, what more could give you an advantage? If you need more advantage than a body length of pure metal to whack people with, then maybe you should switch positions.

[mustang_lax]

E3? Motive? Cyber? Vapor? Bionic? Evo? Torque? Revo Pro? All great D-Heads

[Formerlaxdemon]

The triton was incredibly easy for me to find online. I have found them at Great Atlantic as well as Lax.com to name but a few. Sure it's a great defensive head, but has not gone the way of the Dodo.

[WoodDuck14]

since when can you not find a profile in a store? my local lax store has 5-6 of them at a time and the sell/restock them all the time? Lax.com and many other online stores also carry them, so i dont know what you are talking about.

[HRLAXER]

i think they totaly massacred the revolution. its lighter, weaker, more pinch, more flexible, i warped mine in one single day. i think that you can find the revolution at great atlantic. if not i know a place in oregon they have loads of revolutions. and i also bought a f-15 classic grip pole and shorty. they killed those too. what the crap is an ignite? it is poo

[lax4life6]

E3? Motive? Cyber? Vapor? Bionic? Evo? Torque? Revo Pro? All great D-Heads
torque?cyber?vapor? are you serious? they arent good for d at all. cybers have a history of being weak heads, torques get flimsy after a while, vapors arent strong enough and are too pinched for most d men

[MainLax28]

I definately agree that defensive minded heads are put out less and less each year, and the amount that is out there already is diminishing. My beloved turobo just broke last week, so now I am in the market for a new one. Right now I am using a rocket that isn't bad, but it's not really stifff enough. I think that if us defensemen open up our criteria for a good head a bit, we will find ourselves a ton of great new heads on the market.

BTW I was dyeing my friend's 2006 AV8, the one with the throat like the P2, and it is one of the stiffest heads I have dealt with, and that is alot. I bet I'll be getting one of those things real soon.

[LaxLlama8]

Dude, Tritons are still made! You can get them on comlax.net lacrosse.com or anywhere else.

[RockStar]

If you liked the Wizard or X2, Try a Mohawk Mission.

Cheap, tough, stiff.

[mustang_lax]

torque?cyber?vapor? are you serious? they arent good for d at all. cybers have a history of being weak heads, torques get flimsy after a while, vapors arent strong enough and are too pinched for most d men

Cybers weak heads? I don't think so. One of the most durable heads..mine lasted me 4 years. Vapors too pinched? They're wider than cyber and pretty strong

[goalie1215]

for a while the focus of lax players seems to be lightness over durability

its hard to make durable and light heads, so if people continue to buy flimsy heads like evo pro, they will continue to market them because they are making money.

so its not exatly discrimination its just light, flimsy heads sell better :ahhno:

[ColtsLax]

E3? Motive? Cyber? Vapor? Bionic? Evo? Torque? Revo Pro? All great D-Heads
e3-picnhed
Cyber-pinched
Evo/revo-pinched.

i want a nice wide, stiff head thats what a d head is

[Orange]

e3-picnhed
Cyber-pinched
Evo/revo-pinched.

i want a nice wide, stiff head thats what a d head is
BT you think the Cyber and Revolution are pinched?

[BTlaxripper]

BT you think the Cyber and Revolution are pinched?

Revolution:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002AW6LO.01-A31UKB14H9T8D8._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Not pinched at all, if you can't catch with this head . . I don't know what to tell you.


Cyber:
http://www.sportsoutfit.com/143/products/Brine-Cyber-UN-THUMB.jpg
Again, no pinch at all.

Compare to Evo Pro
http://lombardisports.com/images/product/Team/Lax/Warrior/heads/EvoPro_ani.gif
Now THAT is pinched.

[Lax101]

any other defenders feel that we are being discriminated against? As time has passed, all the good defense heads are disappearing, and the good ones are priceless.

Wizard-Discontinued
X2-pinched, flexible, basically raped
Proton-see X2
Edge-DC
Revo-See X2
Triton-try and find one in a store
Profile-see trition

It just seems that as a pole, i have a harder time finding a good head. my store still carries proton+, but thats about it.
Since when is a Revo Pro flexible? You can't find a Profile in stores? I can. In about every sporting goods store possible. Triton not as much since it's Gait.

So you're saying that the Revo Pro and discontinued Wizard/X2 replace the entire market of wide, stiff defensive heads? Absolutely not.

Revo Pro is the best D head ever? Not even close. Try the Edge/X2. Edge was the best until the X2 came around. X2 is basically the somewhat stiffer version of the Edge. Same basic shape, same offset, comparable weights. Revo Pro ranks around 6 to 8. Original Revo was a better D head than the Revo Pro. Also, the X2 is the sequel to one of the heads that changed the game. Get real, buddy...expand your horizons beyond what's out today because he's right, D-men are getting screwed.
X2 has the same offset as the edge? What are you smoking?


Here's the deal folks. Lacrosse businesses cater to what the market wants. They saw everyone pinching and boiling their heads into monstrosities, so everything out there is now extremely pinched. Everyone is a noodlearm, so everything's light (which generally sacrifices stiffness). And what characterizes a good defenseman's head? Wide and stiff.

Defensemen make up less than 1/3 of the lacrosse populace (when you add in goalies and then that most unathletic kids are just shoved over to attack to begin). When over 2/3 of your market is demanding pinched, light heads, the other 1/3 is going to suffer. Hey, if defensemen made up the majority of the lacrosse populace, then it would be a different story. Defensemen are a minority, but you guys are overreacting.

It's still possible to find stores that have leftover Wizards. Ebay has Wizards on all the time. I've seen them go for 30 bucks. Although they aren't quite stiff, E3's and Motives make adequate defensive heads. Oh, and the Proton/Proton Plus? STX is still making them, so exhale with relief. Warrior is also still making Evo's and Revo's. Exhale with relief again.

And also another fact: defensemen don't necessarily like wide heads anymore. A lot of the more athletic guys that run up the ball want some more ball control, so they use Revo Pros, Razers, even Proton Powers (look at Maryland). There arent that many traditional defensemen left who love the wide, stiff heads.

Anyone taken a look at a Gait Diesel or Chaos? Those seem defense-happy. Vapors too. The new ones are grossly wide and stiff.

[drifter8027]

the revo pro is stiff but not wide at all....thus it cannot be the best defensive head. I have a wizard and its probably one of the stiffest heads ive played with. The x2 is a balance of stiffness and lightness and its not pinched at all, so i would have to say the x2 is higher than either of those two....ahhh!

[lax4life6]

Cybers weak heads? I don't think so. One of the most durable heads..mine lasted me 4 years. Vapors too pinched? They're wider than cyber and pretty strong
my bad on the vapor. i had only seen my friends and i guess it was pretty warped. but cybers do break. on the sidewall. a lot. and theyre a little flimsy too

[GILax18]

Question: Why do defensemen like wider heads? For easier catching? My teammate has a revo pro, and I can catch just as easily with that as I can with my RP on a short stick. Well, almost.

[Dose]

the gait diesel is illegal for college play. the chaos is pretty much a lighter wizard that they charge twice as much for.

[x-man]

Why do defensemen need a wide head. Stiff i can see as your throwing checks but people should be able to catch with a pinched head. If you NEED a wide head to nock down passes go to the wall and practice.

[soclax15]

The defenseman on my team use one of four heads: Revolution (or pro), Proton, E3, or Vapor. They all seem perfectly happy with these heads, and all are still in production. If a Vapor isn't wide enough for you, I don't know what is. Honestly, some of the best defenseman in the world in the MLL are forced to use Warrior heads, which are notoriously more pinched than other brands. If they can make do, I find it difficult to believe that everyone else can't.

[I Am Legend]

Cybers weak heads? I don't think so. One of the most durable heads..mine lasted me 4 years. Vapors too pinched? They're wider than cyber and pretty strong

i love the cyber and agree its a great head, but its def. not one of the most durable...our faceoff guy goes through like 3-5 every season. I loved my cyber its a great head just not the most durable.

[I Am Legend]

[QUOTE=Lax101
And also another fact: defensemen don't necessarily like wide heads anymore. A lot of the more athletic guys that run up the ball want some more ball control, so they use Revo Pros, Razers, even Proton Powers (look at Maryland). There arent that many traditional defensemen left who love the wide, stiff heads.

Anyone taken a look at a Gait Diesel or Chaos? Those seem defense-happy. Vapors too. The new ones are grossly wide and stiff.[/QUOTE]

Yeah of our 5 D-men that play...3 or 4 use revo pro's and the other huge guy uses wizards because he is just a beast.

And isnt the Diesel Illegal....i thought i heard that somewhere?

[ColtsLax]

Im not saying that we can't make due, i even use a revo pro. it just seems that the more popular D heads are falling by the wayside.

[dtl42]

there are still some quality d-heads out there

[I Am Legend]

the revo pro is stiff but not wide at all....thus it cannot be the best defensive head. I have a wizard and its probably one of the stiffest heads ive played with. The x2 is a balance of stiffness and lightness and its not pinched at all, so i would have to say the x2 is higher than either of those two....ahhh!

total opinion.

[GLAX16]

Bionic is a pretty nasty D head, and I also like the revo pro.

[BioPro29]

Honestly, some of the best defenseman in the world in the MLL are forced to use Warrior heads, which are notoriously more pinched than other brands. If they can make do, I find it difficult to believe that everyone else can't.

That makes no sense. Of course they can handle the tight pinches, they're the best d-poles in the world. The average (or sub-average) hs pole is not going to be able to make do as well as the best players in the world can.

[Jesse]

i love the cyber and agree its a great head, but its def. not one of the most durable...our faceoff guy goes through like 3-5 every season. I loved my cyber its a great head just not the most durable.
I wouldnt reccomend the Cyber to anyone playing defence or LSM. Lots of people break them so quickly. The Vapor is a great head for LSM. I wouldnt use it for Def because all the poke checks I throw made mine warp.

[CaryImps15]

If you absolutely want to find a good d-head out today look at the proton, stiff and unpinched, granted stringing it sucks but hey its stiff, and if you pockets are bare...why theres the STX AV8, essestially the same as the proton but with a different sidewall. Warrior has the Razor and the Revo Pro, Brine has the Cyber, Vapor, and the Motive...so don't whine and say there's not any more d-heads out there

[jory]

Revolution:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002AW6LO.01-A31UKB14H9T8D8._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Not pinched at all, if you can't catch with this head . . I don't know what to tell you.


Cyber:
http://www.sportsoutfit.com/143/products/Brine-Cyber-UN-THUMB.jpg
Again, no pinch at all.

Compare to Evo Pro
http://lombardisports.com/images/product/Team/Lax/Warrior/heads/EvoPro_ani.gif
Now THAT is pinched.

i think he left out the pro part
revo and evo are not at all pinched
the revo and evo pro are pinched

[wiggidawack]

^^
do you play d? many d players would break half of those heads like toothpicks...the ones i know anyway

[sharpshooterFTW]

coltslax, as a d men, we have to evolve. the days of weilding cement blocks that wouldn't bend if a semi ran over it MULTIPLE TIMES. today i rock a revo pro on a pole really ment to be a short stick the flip grip magnum. my backupis a razer pro, again an ofensive minded head. but if you really realize it we aren't getting discriminated against. we're being merged, or reinventd. examples

revo / evo /pro
all 4 of them (evo/pro revo/pro) all basically the same shape and pinch with minor adjustment

edge/edge plus
again shape w. minor differences.

razer/pro
ofensive minded head with some sutle details that promote d. such as the catching size of the face. with the flare for ball controll.

proton/x2/proton power
not so much the P2

but if you catch my drift there's still tons of choices to pick from, but you have adjust your standars a bit. take the e3, the cyber, the vapor, the triton, torque, the list goes on and on.

[BeaverFondu]

Bionic is a pretty nasty D head


Yeah they are. And their really cheap now. The local shop is selling them for around 45$.

[SJClax33]

ive been playin d for 6 years and recently began using these heads that are more pinched and i love them. i can run the whole feild and take check and still hold onto the ball. i use a duce, primer, finalizer, and triton in rotation and all work great. the only one that has broke was the finalizer and i used that thing for two seasons. i dont get the problem with pinched heads on defense

[nicklax123]

My lax store sells a triton and i have a profile

[Torque42]

i juts saw a triton at laxworld for 48 unstrung it was tempting

[PilotShinjiIkar]

See guys what everyone posted so far its all on opinion. In terms of head stiffness and pinched in relation to defensemen use is all dependent on a person's opinion. As a defensemen I use to like wide stiff heads. Since all I did when I first learn to play was developing my hand eye coordination and hacking the crap out of people. But then I went towards flexible and pinched heads like the Bionic. Because after I learned to catch my biggest problem was protecting the stick from attackmen trying to tomahawk me to pieces after I catch the ball.
I do agree with Colt that the days of unpinched stiff heads are gone. Everything has gone more pinched and more offensive capable or minded. Its seems that lax companies are making position specific less and more jack of all trades head. I can see where d poles and middie heads cross the line but I dont think you can really mix heads that d poles and attackmen would use. Because our needs seem very opposite of one another. And the hallmark d pole heads are all stiff and wide. Where as all the companies are remaking our heads more pinched and for the most part less stiff (except Revo Pro). So we can argue about what none d specific heads can be used for Defense. But if these heads are so popular why remake them and change them so drasitically and then discontinue the older lines? Thats my question. Because making heads less stiff and more pinched are no helpful for d poles. I can see why them made the new heads as i have stated above but why discontinue the older lines that are so popular with us?

[moosoby22]

A good defensive head that ive found is the gait chaos, because its light and very strong. its also good for LSM because its pretty pinched. so i you are looking for a good D head buy the chaos.

[wilsontopowell]

The defenseman on my team use one of four heads: Revolution (or pro), Proton, E3, or Vapor. They all seem perfectly happy with these heads, and all are still in production. If a Vapor isn't wide enough for you, I don't know what is. Honestly, some of the best defenseman in the world in the MLL are forced to use Warrior heads, which are notoriously more pinched than other brands. If they can make do, I find it difficult to believe that everyone else can't.

yea that doesnt make any sense, of course there going to "make do" there the best defenseman in the world

[mattlax43]

i cnat believe the bionic has barely been mentioned. good pick but still a wide face up top. very strong.

[XxlacrossexX]

You can unpinch an Revo Pro. Like put a baseball at the pinch and "un-pinch" it peeps

[mattlax43]

You can unpinch an Revo Pro. Like put a baseball at the pinch and "un-pinch" it peeps

yea but since the revo pro is the minimum dimensions allowed, if you stretch it one way (width) it will shrink the other way (length)

[Cally Lax Dude]

i hear u man

[sailorslax88]

vapor ftw.

[XxlacrossexX]

Warrior Xacto - discontinued stiff, wide, but you can still get them off of masscloseouts and ebay

[EastCoastSurf]

Yeah of our 5 D-men that play...3 or 4 use revo pro's and the other huge guy uses wizards because he is just a beast.

And isnt the Diesel Illegal....i thought i heard that somewhere?

Its illegal for NCAA play because of the sidewall but somehow legal for high school play. 2 of the d-men on my team in school this year had them and both broke them at the throat, a number of times.

[petejobu22]

If you need more advantage than a body length of pure metal to whack people with, then maybe you should switch positions.
If we were still allowed sig quotes.....that would defiently be mine. lol

I used a wizard I found on and when I looked there were a TON of them.

[dram183]

also, guys, is the half an inch to an inch of extra plastic going to help you knock down passes? concentrate on playing actual defense and its all fine. the control a pinched head gives you definately outweighs the extra less than an inch of knocking down ability

[sidewinder19]

stx rotor anyone? :agree: :nahya:

[goalie1215]

If we were still allowed sig quotes.....that would defiently be mine. lol

I used a wizard I found on and when I looked there were a TON of them.

you could do it like this

BTlaxripper: If you need more advantage than a body length of pure metal to whack people with, then maybe you should switch positions.

[bradlax2]

Jack Reid one of UMASS to Longpoles uses a cyber

[D_Pole2010]

dont forget the clutch!

[tuss_lax08]

Another good d-head was the debeer phantom. That was a beast I thought.

[Hovallax41]

Gait Chaos, Mohawk Mission, E3, Stiffi. Those are all really good.

[wshnationals]

seriously, almost any brine head makes for a good D head. also, you wouldnt expect it, but the razer series make decent D heads as well.

[lax39er]

I agree that alot of the good D heads are gone. Now they are going to pinched heads, but on the upside if you find the old D heads you can get them cheap. They still have a few,but some of them loose their good D specs quiclkly.

[AlbanyPower25]

does anybody like the shockwave, i personally like them, but i broke my wizard and wasnt to happy, i dont like my revo pro very much too pinched and not stiff enough

[shadowelite84]

well, i just dont care, i go with watever i like and can catch and throw with

right now im using a franchise, not at all supposed to be a d head really, but i love it and am owning with it, especially when the attack men try and check it out of my stick when i am running it down field. they hit me, and i keep the ball in.
i think yall r forgetting the nitrous too, mostly a face off head, but was an absolutely amaziing d head, in my opinion