Defense setup

[TheKOB]

So I'm trying to think up a slide package that might work a little better. Right now our team defense relys on everyone channelling down the side. The slide comes from the bottom right or left D man and then the other Dman comes across with the second. As you can imagine, about 60-80% of our goals came from guys not being able to force their man down the side, or a middie getting beat in the top center, running in, and us being unprepared w/o a slide. I'd like something that'll work against hopefully all or most of the offensive setups, but still man to man. I realize I'm probably questing after the Holy Grail of defense team strategy, but I figure there's no harm in asking...

[smitt5168]

it's a helluva lot easier to come with a slide package like that in a man to man, i suggest a zone.

i'd say do a man, with zone properties for slides, closest man picks up the slide etc.

[SheepShank]

Have it set up like a 5 on a die and then do a zone so the closest man slides

[anjang86]

the best way to teach slides is to let them play zone for a while

[JUSLAXIN]

Slide from the crease. IMO it takes the guess work out .

You always fill from the backside.

[DukeLax2]

slide from the creASe if there is a man on the crease, coma when at x and adjusent when ur in a circle set

[smitt5168]

ok here's an example


O1 <--- comes beats D2 goes right


D1 D2 D3 <---- slides and
picks up O1

picture that setup except triangle d. you get beat to you right, right man picks up, etc.

[WestSideLa X eR]

yea, our team slides from the crease. we have one d up guarding up top , one on crease and two off to the sides

basically how it works is that our dpoles give "no topside" and push then down towards the side with our goal then push them in towards the crease and thats where our slide comes from. Sounds risky but its worked for us

[darobotdevil]

Have one wing Defense (left or right) slide up to the man and take the Point position. The crease defender will then slide to the Right attack man. When the middie passes it off have the Point D man run back to the open attack man. If you dont understand what im saying its probably because its 1:30 AM, and im very tired... but just draw it out assuming that the X attack man is behind the goal.

[esulax]

I have found playing basketball with the players teaches them a great deal of sliding, footwork, positioning, and using their bodies to play defense. It is the same principle..all men slide to the nearest offender leaving the man farthest from the ball open. The man who gets beat must call for help in oder for the slide to work in either basketball of lacrosse.

[UNCdefense]

ya, but i thoguht the opposite, let them play lacrosse & then it becomes easier, cause its a much larger area/better to look at, then when u get on the court its much smaller, so since your cramped on the court it's harder to recognize but on an open field its easy to see who would slide & why/when a slide would be needed

[stegmakk]

KOB...I'd go with Dukelax's idea...

[CTLaxer]

KOB...I'd go with Dukelax's idea...


I agree. It's easy to learn and effective and leaves no question as to where a player should be or what they should be doing at any given moment. Not only that, but you can use this kind of defense to pressure the ball extremely well and perhaps cause some turnovers.

[Lax_coach]

TheKOB, I noticed that you suggested the times you give up the most goals is when your middies get beat up top into the middle of the field where no help exists. Even in a crease sliding defense, if your on-ball defender does not funnel a player into a pre-determined area of the field, you will give up scoring opportunities. We believe it is critical that our on ball defenders funnel the ball to predetermined areas- as you have suggested from up top we channel everything down the side- the key here is that most on ball defenders do not play in the proper position to force this action. If the on ball defender can get beat to his left and to his right, the slider wont know where to go and will be late- we teach our on ball defenders up top to be EXTREMELY aggressive in terms of position on the man they are guarding- so much so it takes us weeks to convince them that the position is the right one: we teach our middies up top when the ball carrier is in the box the proper position is for you to be facing the sideline (or even biased toward the corner created by the sideline and the endline) and to be 1 step closer to the MIDFIELD line than the guy with the ball- They feel so uncomfortable with that position they feel they are going to get beat badly down the side- my reply: that is EXACTLY what we want to happen. As soon as the ball carrier begins his dodge down the side, we trigger the slide- we know before the ball carrier does where he is going- our slides are therefore always on time. But the key again is the position of the on ball defender- I see too many play between their man and the goal, allowing themselves to get beat either side.
It is tough to convince them this is the right way- especially when we play 1v1 drills- we have to quickly add a slider (making it 1v1 +1 or 2v2) to show them why we do this. When the ball carrier dodges, the job of the on ball defender is to maintain his upfield relationship to the ball carrier (shading to the topside) and ride him down the side- get a lift on the shooters elbow with his stick if he shoots, and do not prevent him from rolling back into the middle of the field.

The added benefit of this positioning is that we dictate where the parameter passes are going in most cases also as the ball carrier up top will almost have to throw the ball down the side as opposed to through his defender across the top of the field. The benefit? We can slide/pressure the poor sap who is going to catch the pass as we know who it is- heaven help him if he stands still to catch...check down on his stick/forearms and watch the pass roll out of bounds- time to clear the ball.

(We take a similar aggressive stance when the ball is behind- we funnel everything to X, taking away top side as aggresively as we did up top, ready to slide fromo the crease- i guess you could coma or slide from the far pipe if you wanted. The key is that we take away one option to force the other, everyone on our defense knows where the ball is going which is a big help.)

Hope this helps
LC

[CoachK]

Real quick, the origional post is from April of 04, I even think Kevin (KOB) has taken a bit of time off from coaching, I could be wrong, but that's what I heard. The last post did an excellent job of explaining what I believe to be a proper team Man v Man defense.

[usflacrosse.com]

What is Coma?

[Lax_coach]

Coma is a term used to describe a defensive movement when the defender COMes Across the front of the cage. That is the defender on bottom left slides over to the bottom right in front of the cage. Typical uses of a coma slide are when defenses are designed to keep the crease defender home (no help, or at least not the first help)- many zones are desgned this way, as well as many man down defenses.

hope this helps
LC

[CoachK]

out here we typically only use a coma slide when attackmen are driving. We'll play high side, force and inside roll, and send the slide.

[Lax_coach]

Coach K- using the coma slide to get to the driving attackmen, who is your second slide in that case? Do you send the creaseman, or is the next guy in the rotation backing up the coma sliders spot (a player in the top left/right position presumably).

If you send the next guy on the parameter, it is really a parameter sliding/rotating defense which we have never really used/taught. If the crease man (whomever that is at the moment) is the second slide, it would be a defense i have thought about, diagramed but never taught/implmented...

just curious how the rest of your team defense works.

Thanks
LC

[CoachK]

If we force the inside roll from bottom, and send the slide across the crease (bottom left), the 2nd slide would be the top left middie. We hope our defender is diciplined enough to prevent the driving attackmen from rolling back outside. The attackmen's best options are to try and feed across the crease (goalie and sliding defender in the way) or to attempt to take it behind the cage to feed from the back side.

If he cleanly gets to the bottom left side of the cage, we're probably in trouble. He'll have a 2v1 with the top left middie covering both the bottom left attack and his man (all from the goalie's perspective). If he gets there, its usually the result of an improper slide in either timing or technique.

We've had good success with it over the past few years and its pretty easy to teach. The defenseman on ball has to keep solid body and be able to check the ball to prevent easy passes cross crease as the slide comes.

As easy as a crease slide is to teach, I think they're pretty easy to beat if the man driving can beat his man effectively (especially if he gets to the middle). The crease sliding can lead to more finishes coming from inside. We typically slide adjacent (but we do run other defenses) because it forces a team to beat you with passing, and from the outside. We're going to have to slide, we can't stop everyone 1v1. I like my goalies to take their chances on the 12 yard shot vs. the 3-5. I also like to see if a team can put 6 players out there that can beat my 6. If they can only manage 2-4, they're in trouble. Sometimes we'll just pull one guy out of the slide package, and rotate past them when necessary.

In our league, most teams simply try to punish the slide, or make it happen 1v1. If you're interested in more strategies to stop 1v1, I have some good ones, just pm me.

[Lax_coach]

Check your PM's- veryinterested in that.

Interesting perspective on the parameter defense- question- couldnt your slide/help be taken away easily against a motion offense (i.e. the off ball offensive player next in line- presumably being guarded by the "hot" player/next slide- if that player clears through, the slide man wil lahve to go with him- taking away the slide). In this case do you expect the next guy in the parameter to understand/recognize he is now the adjecent player (despite that he was 2 spots away prior to the clear through).

Just curious- seems easy to take away help, but i am sure there is an answer.

Also- point of clarification- do you parameter slide against all dodges (wings and up top) or just when driving from x?

Thanks
LC

[CoachK]

We do expect the players to realize who's on and off for slides. We call left/right, 2, bring him left/right, 3, off, crease, and so on. We have to know where the rest of the team is in the rotation.

Lets say the other team was in a 2-3-1 (from up top), Top left middie has the ball (goalie's view). The top right middie, our help right, cuts through to bottom left to create space. Our slide is now from the bottom right man, who was the 2. He called 2 when the man had the ball, and the tr middie cutting through yelled off, meaning the two is now the help. The X man is now the 2.

If the middie sweeps to the middle, the defenders job once beaten is to not let him turn around. If he does, we're hosed, so keep him going toward the slide. We don't slide from the crease here because the creaseman is more dangerous than the wing, and a good dodger will beat the angle of the slide. When the slide comes from br, the man is sandwiched. He must make the pass, or shoot, we hope pass because that shot is lower angle. We also have the second slide coming straight out from the cage, which is a great angle and the play is stopped. If the ball is swung to X we have to read what's going on. All the players on the back side are packed in the middle, because we don't allow the play to turn around. The origional man who was beat up top, should rotate down to cover the X man (although) this can create a mismatch shorty vs attack, we'll take our chances and rotate again.

Essentially our philosophy is to effectively bring defenders that are not in the play to the middle to help deter more driving, and knock down skip passes. We have to talk to be effective, and realize what the offense is trying to do. High side defense, and making the offense predictable is also key to all of our schemes.