Defense in crease?

[laxattack17]

Today we played a game and at one point we got a call against for a defensemen being in the crease. If I remember correctly, the ball was loose, and the ref blew the whistle and announced the penalty. My teammate then said "but he's on defense" and one player on their team said "it doesn't matter"

I was under the impression that defense can cut through the crease?

[scruffy221]

D men can go through w/o the ball. If they have posession they can't cut through. But on a loose ball they should be good to go.

[LaxRef]

Today we played a game and at one point we got a call against for a defensemen being in the crease. If I remember correctly, the ball was loose, and the ref blew the whistle and announced the penalty. My teammate then said "but he's on defense" and one player on their team said "it doesn't matter"

I was under the impression that defense can cut through the crease?

Severely confused official. A defensive player may not enter his own crease when in possession of the ball, but defensive players can enter their own crease. Your coach should have challenged the rules interpretation.

[laxattack17]

Now that I think about it, it was loose, yet he may have picked it up and ran through.
I didn't know that if they had the ball... they couldn't. Thanks!

[LaxRef]

Now that I think about it, it was loose, yet he may have picked it up and ran through.
I didn't know that if they had the ball... they couldn't. Thanks!

The official should give the call "Illegal reentry" and give the "over and back" signal from basketball.

[CoachRob]

NO PLAYER, including the GK, may enter the crease with the ball in his possession. A defensive player or GK may RECEIVE a pass while in the crease, but running into it results in a turnover to the opponent 20 yards lateral to the goal. Of course, an attacking player may never enter the crease legally, unless illegally checked into the crease, and even that has restrictions.

[ron_burgundy]

NO PLAYER, including the GK, may enter the crease with the ball in his possession. A defensive player or GK may RECEIVE a pass while in the crease, but running into it results in a turnover to the opponent 20 yards lateral to the goal. Of course, an attacking player may never enter the crease legally, unless illegally checked into the crease, and even that has restrictions.

speaking of this "illegally checked into the crease" we have had a couple situations when there have been pretty regular pushes from playing body defense, and a kid ends up in the crease...but it is awarded to the other team b/c the kid was pushed into the crease. what are these "illegal" checks into the crease?

[CoachRob]

speaking of this "illegally checked into the crease" we have had a couple situations when there have been pretty regular pushes from playing body defense, and a kid ends up in the crease...but it is awarded to the other team b/c the kid was pushed into the crease. what are these "illegal" checks into the crease?

An illegal body check is just that: a check from the side or behind, above the neck or below the waist. If player A1 is near the crease and is ILLEGALLY body checked by B1 into the crease area, and the official blows the whistle because the body of A1 is in the crease and disruptive to the GK, then it is awarded to team A 20 yards lateral to the box and sends B1 off for a one minute penalty for the personal foul (IBC).

If, OTOH, A1 is running near the crease and is LEGALLY body checked (from in front, above the waist and below the neck, without any intent to harm) then he is now guilty of a crease violation, resulting in a play on, or awarding the ball to the defensive team 20 yards lateral to the goal.

So, the legality of the body check makes all the difference in the world.

Let's say A1 takes a shot on goal, and is ILLEGALLY body checked by B1 into the goal crease. The ball goes in the goal, and THEN his body lands in the crease. The goal COUNTS because he ended up in the crease as the result of an ILLEGAL action by B1, thru no fault of his own. B1 who illegally body checked A1 into the crease will serve one minute for an IBC in addition to the goal counting.

Now let's say A1 takes a shot on goal, and is LEGALLY body checked by B1 into the goal crease. The ball goes in the goal, and THEN A1's body lands in the crease. The goal does NOT COUNT because he ended up in the crease as the result of a legal action, and he is assumed to have not had sufficient body control such that he would have ended up outside of the crease after the shot. It is viewed exactly the same was as a dive that lands him in the crease after the goal. It is wiped out because his own momentum carried him into the crease. Same with a LEGAL body check. That's why I counsel attackers to stay at least 2 yards from the crease.

[LaxRef]

Now let's say A1 takes a shot on goal, and is LEGALLY body checked by B1 into the goal crease. The ball goes in the goal, and THEN A1's body lands in the crease. The goal does NOT COUNT because he ended up in the crease as the result of a legal action, and he is assumed to have not had sufficient body control such that he would have ended up outside of the crease after the shot. It is viewed exactly the same was as a dive that lands him in the crease after the goal. It is wiped out because his own momentum carried him into the crease. Same with a LEGAL body check. That's why I counsel attackers to stay at least 2 yards from the crease.

I strongly disagree. The rules about diving refer to deliberately diving into the airspace of the crease. If you get pushed in legally and land in the crease before the ball enters the goal, no goal. If you get pushed in legally and land in the crease after the ball enters the goal, the goal is good.

[MElaxRef]

I agree with LaxRef.

Unless the attacker was diving into the crease, the sequence of ball breaking plane and attacker touching crease determines whether the goal was good.

The legality / illegality of the push or check determines whether the penalty is crease violation or illegal check / push.

[laxfan25]

CoachRob,
As LaxRefsays, that is a REALLY bad call if you take away a goal because a guy was legally cehcked into the crease AFTER the ball is in the goal. The shooter can also run through the crease after the goal with no problem. It's ony when they dive or jump and their own momentum (as opposed to a push or check) carries them into the crease.

[laxfan25]

speaking of this "illegally checked into the crease" we have had a couple situations when there have been pretty regular pushes from playing body defense, and a kid ends up in the crease...but it is awarded to the other team b/c the kid was pushed into the crease. what are these "illegal" checks into the crease?
This is one play that I emphasize in my training classes. "Keep your eyes up, and if you see someone step in the crease, determin how they got there!" Way too often the ref is only watching the feet. They see A1 step in, and automatically award it to B, when it could have been B1 nudging him in the back that caused the violation. The same type of play ofetn occurs at the sideline and midfield on a ball rolling towards the line - you see a guy step over, and aren't seeing the man behind doing the butt bump to make him step forward.
What makes it challenging is if A1 has possession on the crease and just gets nudged from the back into the crease - you've got to call a 30 sec T for the push, even though it wasn't that severe. To award to the other team just because he steps in the crease when pushed from the back severely disadvantages that team.

[LaxRef]

What makes it challenging is if A1 has possession on the crease and just gets nudged from the back into the crease - you've got to call a 30 sec T for the push, even though it wasn't that severe. To award to the other team just because he steps in the crease when pushed from the back severely disadvantages that team.

This is a great example of TPOAD. Same thing applies it the nudge from behind makes the guy go offsides or our of bounds, or if it affects his shot.