Crease

[LaXDaVe]

Ok, question...Simple, general question.

Most refs can answer this:

If there is an attackmen driving towards the crease from the left or right side, and he dives ACROSS the crease and shoots, and scores, BEFORE he hits the ground (meaning to say the ball is in the goal before he lands) does this goal count? Ive had people tell me yes and no, so give me an answer, or better yet, proof? Because I've seen this done in MLL games =/:laugh

[attacklax]

i believe it is illegal (at least in high school). it use to be legal, but from what i recall they changed that for the safety of goalies

[LaXDaVe]

But I thought that was only "The Dive", which is diving straight at the goalie...isnt it?

[Jjaylax09]

i was actually having a discussion with a friend of mine and the way he described the current rule is that the referee must blow his whistle before the player crosse the vertical plane of the crease, the referee can call off the goal if he feels that the player violated the crease.... if this is wrong somebody correct it

[LaXDaVe]

I dont care, I just wanna play attack and do it once. It just looks so cool. lol. Hey JJay, is that you playin keeper in your picture?

[mx255]

it is illegal in high school because the ref has to determine that the ball is dead before you can cross into the crease

[Jjaylax09]

yes, that is me... it was a wicked save, the best looking one i have on film

[Snuffilufigas22]

Yea we have a crazy attack on our team who has gotten two goals called off this year because he dove through the crease. It is illegal in high school. The ball was in before he hit the ground but it doesn't matter anymore.

[Snake~eyes]

From your description this sounds legal.

NFHS 4.20 Situation D
A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land outside the crease and (a) ball goes into the goal or (b) goalie contacts A1. RULING: In (a), goal counts. In (b), no goal, award ball to the defense.


Diving towards the goalie is illegal, note that the player must have potential to land outside the crease.

[TheKOB]

I think the way I've heard it described (who knows if it's right or not) is that if a player runs into the crease (using his feet, that is) after the goal is scored, it's ok. If he DIVES into the crease (no matter if it's at the goalie or trying to do an air gait) then the goal is waved off. My question is if a player can break that invisible vertical cylinder but still have his feet outside the painted circle.

[spenny]

here's the relevant sections from the NCAA rule book.

in my understanding, the ball must cross the plane of the goal before any part of the player is in the crease or contacts the keeper, keepers stick or goal itself.
see AR43 & AR 44

if the player propels himself into the crease regardless of whether he has made contact with the keeper, keepers stick or goal itself, there is no goal
see AR 97.
if the player is pushed into the crease keeper, keepers stick or goal itself it is a goal.
see AR 98

(air gait, BS play, is illegal because the player intentionally enters the crease before he even shoots the ball)

from teh good book:
Goal Not Counted
SECTION 4.9. Under the following conditions, a goal shall be disallowed:
c. When the ball passes through the plane of the goal and when any part
of the body of a player of the attacking team is in the goal-crease area at
the time.

A.R. 43. A1 shoots the ball. Before the ball enters the goal, A1’s crosse makes contact
with the goal post or net or the goalkeeper. Does the goal count? RULING: No goal.
A.R. 44. A1 takes a shot at goal while driving toward crease. A1 leaps into air and
shooter’s crosse makes contact with any part of the goal, the goalkeeper in his crease or
the crease before the ball enters goal. RULING: No goal.

SECTION 4.20. The movement of players into and out of the goal-crease area
is restricted.

a. If an offensive player deliberately leaves his feet by diving or jumping
and his own momentum carries him into the crease, and his shot goes
into the goal, the goal is disallowed.
b. An attacking player may not be in the opponent’s goal-crease area at
any time.

A.R. 97. A1 drives toward goal and jumps or dives into the crease. (1) The ball goes into
the goal or (2) the ball does not go into the goal. RULING: (1) No goal. Ball awarded to
defensive team. (2) Play-on or whistle.
A.R. 98. A1 dives or jumps towards the crease and while in the air gets illegally checked
into the crease. (1) Ball goes into the goal or (2) ball does not go into the goal. RULING:
(1) Flag down, goal counts, assess penalty. (2) Flag down, assess penalty.
A.R. 99. A1 dives or jumps into the crease and while in the air gets legally pushed or
checked. (1) Ball goes into the goal or (2) ball does not go into the goal. RULING: (1)
No goal. Ball awarded to the defensive team. (2) Play-on or whistle.
A.R. 100. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land
outside the crease. (1) The ball goes in the goal or (2) goalie contacts A1 while he is in the
air. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) No goal. Award ball to defensive team.
A.R. 101. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease and, while in the air, (1)
gets legally pushed into the crease with the ball entering the goal before A1 lands in the
crease or (2) gets illegally pushed into the crease. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) Flag
down. Goal counts if ball enters the goal before A1 lands in the crease.
A.R. 102. A1 dives or jumps outside the crease and (1) gets checked illegally into the
crease or (2) gets checked legally into the crease. RULING: (1) Flag down, goal counts
if ball goes in goal before A1 contacts the ground. Penalty eliminated unless for personal
foul. (2) Goal counts, provided that the ball entered the goal before A1 contacted the
ground.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by TheKOB
I think the way I've heard it described (who knows if it's right or not) is that if a player runs into the crease (using his feet, that is) after the goal is scored, it's ok. If he DIVES into the crease (no matter if it's at the goalie or trying to do an air gait) then the goal is waved off. My question is if a player can break that invisible vertical cylinder but still have his feet outside the painted circle.
Yes the player can break the cylinder at any time, being in the crease means touching the line, grass in the crease, goalkeeper and/or the goal. So if a player were to say jump from the side, land in the front outside the crease it and shoot while he was in the air the goal would be good.

[SheepShank]

I thought you "jump" not "dive" into the crease because something like that happened in one of my games (highschool). The attack man jumped shot and landed in the crease. For some reason it wasn't illegal and when i asked the ref about it after the game he said you were allowed to "jump" into it (shoot then land), but you couldn't dive. That in my opinion is stupid because 1) how is the goalie suppost to block that, you could just "jump" and put your stick right on the cage and 2) Its not specfic I mean if I gonna dive isn't that technically a jump?

But I guess it all depends on the rule type your district goes by

[TheKOB]

seems like it's definitely a case of the refs not being trained up on the rules...or they don't really understand what a dive shot is.

[Snake~eyes]

Basically if your own momentum carries you TOWARDS the crease and you land into the crease/goalie/goal then it is not a goal. If your momentum carries you adjacent to the crease then it is legal. If you put a tangent line on the crease and jumped along that line it would be legal. Does that make sense?

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Basically if your own momentum carries you TOWARDS the crease and you land into the crease/goalie/goal then it is not a goal. If your momentum carries you adjacent to the crease then it is legal. If you put a tangent line on the crease and jumped along that line it would be legal. Does that make sense?

For better or worse, here's how I call it. The key words
are "jumps" or "dives" into the crease. If you do either
of these, and you are not illegally hit into the crease, then
the goal is disallowed.

But if you shoot, score, and step into the crease, I don't
count that as a "jump" or "dive," and I allow the goal.

The purpose of the rule (instituted three or four years ago)
was safety.

Mike

[Snake~eyes]

Erm how you call it might not be totally correct, it is legal to jump into the crease. just depends what direction you're going in. Also the goal should be disallowed even if you are hit illegaly.

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Erm how you call it might not be totally correct, it is legal to jump into the crease. just depends what direction you're going in. Also the goal should be disallowed even if you are hit illegaly.

Hey Snake,

The rules are explicit about this. If you score and then are hit illegally and checked into the crease, the goal counts:

A.R. 98. A1 dives or jumps towards the crease and while in the air gets illegally checked
into the crease. (1) Ball goes into the goal or (2) ball does not go into the goal. RULING:
(1) Flag down, goal counts, assess penalty. (2) Flag down, assess penalty.

Also, I don't think it's legal to jump into the crease, no matter what direction you are heading:

SECTION 4.20. The movement of players into and out of the goal-crease area
is restricted.

a. If an offensive player deliberately leaves his feet by diving or jumping
and his own momentum carries him into the crease, and his shot goes
into the goal, the goal is disallowed.

Because the rules emphasize "jumping" and "diving," I would allow a goal if the player stepped into the crease after scoring.

That's my humble interpretation.

Mike

[Snake~eyes]

okay I'm going to college rules for you.


You're right if the player scores then gets illegally hit then the goal does count. But make sure you udnerstand AR 120, if the player steps in the crease before the goal goes in than it does not count.

NCAA A.R. 102. A1 dives or jumps outside the crease and (1) gets checked illegally into the
crease or (2) gets checked legally into the crease. RULING: (1) Flag down, goal counts
if ball goes in goal before A1 contacts the ground. Penalty eliminated unless for personal
foul. (2) Goal counts, provided that the ball entered the goal before A1 contacted the
ground.

The ball has to enter the goal before A1 touches the ground.


Now as for the jumping/diving debate. You are allowed to jump or dive into the crease as long as you have the potential of landing outside. Like I said if you jump along a tangent line of the crease then it would be okay.

NCAA A.R. 100. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land
outside the crease. (1) The ball goes in the goal or (2) goalie contacts A1 while he is in the
air. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) No goal. Award ball to defensive team.

[Snake~eyes]

Here I've drawn somthing to kind of explain. I think we can both agree that (A) is illegal. But I do believe that (B) and (C) are both legal moves. Even if the player lands inside the crease as long as the goal goes in before he touches anything its legal.

[spenny]

snake,
4.20 sure makes it sound like you cant choose to go into the crease regardless of where you land
i will talk to some of the refs i know to get their take on it

[Snake~eyes]

I agree that 4.20 makes it sound like jumping or diving in any way into the crease is illegal but the case play NCAA A.R 102 and/or NFHS 4.20 Situation D seem to contradict. Have you read that case play? Without reading rule 4.20 what do you interpret the case play to mean?

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Now as for the jumping/diving debate. You are allowed to jump or dive into the crease as long as you have the potential of landing outside. Like I said if you jump along a tangent line of the crease then it would be okay.

NCAA A.R. 100. A1 dives or jumps through the air space of the crease with the potential to land
outside the crease. (1) The ball goes in the goal or (2) goalie contacts A1 while he is in the
air. RULING: (1) Goal counts. (2) No goal. Award ball to defensive team. [/B]

Hi Snake,

In my view, the rules use the term "potential" for the
purposes of dealing with legal and illegal hits to the
jumping or diving player, not to suggest that the jumper
or diver can eventually land in the crease.

If there is no potential for the jumper or diver to land
outside the crease, even if the hit is illegal, the goal is always
disallowed.

But if the jumper or diver has the potential to land outside
the crease, then an illegal hit into the crease means a goal,
and a legal hit into the crease means the goal is disallowed.

Mike

[LaxGoalieLZ]

yes ill clear up for all the pregeo ppl out there. A tangent is a line that touches a circle at one point only

[spenny]

AR 102 only covers being checked into the crease by a 2nd (3rd and 4th?) party. but AR 100 says that as long as you dont touch (or get touched) by anything you are ok. (but you'd have to land completely outside the crease)

NFHS 4.20 Situation D is the same as AR 100.

FWIW: 4.20 is the actual rule, AR anything is just meant as an illustration of the rule. but its not clear. i'm going to try and get a hold of the local head of officials and get an answer from him.

bottom line: i have no idea.

[Thrillhouse]

If this helps, the way it was explained to me the first time I ever saw the "Air Gait" is that crease is only enforced when you are playing the game. After the goal is scored, the clock stops and you aren't playing again until the faceoff.
In other words, if you are running towards the goal and shoot and score, I don't think anyone is going to call you stepping in the crease after the goal.

[spenny]

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
If this helps, the way it was explained to me the first time I ever saw the "Air Gait" is that crease is only enforced when you are playing the game. After the goal is scored, the clock stops and you aren't playing again until the faceoff.
In other words, if you are running towards the goal and shoot and score, I don't think anyone is going to call you stepping in the crease after the goal.

and as long as you dont touch any part of the goal or keeper. i think that's the way the rule usually gets enforced, but i'm not confident that that is what the rules comittee meant when they changed the rules to keep players from diving into the crease.

[LaxRef]

While not entirely on-point, this A.R. should help shed some light:

A.R. 95. A1 is in possession of the ball on the edge of the crease. A1 breaks plane of the goal with his shot, and then contact is made with goalkeeper’s crosse. RULING: Legal goal. Contact occurs after play has ended.

The principle is the same for entering the crease after a goal, provided the player did not jump or dive: if the ball iis in the goal before the player steps in the crease, the goal is allowed.

[spenny]

The principle is the same for entering the crease after a goal, provided the player did not jump or dive: if the ball iis in the goal before the player steps in the crease, the goal is allowed. [/B][/QUOTE]

ref, what about intentional diving into the crease?

i take it at this point that if you are pushed into the crease, its ok but if you throw yourself into or across the crease, and dont touch the goalie its still not ok?