Profanity

[LaxRef]

Just curious how people are handling this sort of thing these days. I think that the "USC for profanity" is the new mouthguard, and by that I mean that the officials don't want to call it at the high school level because it the penalty is too severe.

Personally, I don't have an issue with a kid sitting 1:00 NR for profanity, but it troubles me that, by the book, a kid who gets a little frustrated and lets two bad words slip out over the course of the game is supposed to get 2 USCs, a 3:00 NR penalty for the second one, an ejection, and likely a suspension. This is essentially the same penalty a player would get for fighting or for other much more serious acts.

[BigKLaxer]

I agree that the consequences are a little harsh, but we want to keep lacrosse as a nice respectable sport. Profanity on and off the field will also make people think of lacrosse players as bad kids. People's opinions of lacrosse players have already lessened after what happened with Duke.

[shrekjr]

It's a tough no win situation.

[shaOLinLaxxer]

The refs at my game today said they didnt care if we cursed as long as it was to our own team and not the opposing team or the officials. But the refs the game before today said no cursing, and gave our goalie a couple of warnings after cursing at our defense.

[gfink]

If a player drops an F-Bomb, i am going to the USC right away. For some of the other words considered to be profane; sh--, G-D-- ..., i think i would lean toward the warning, conduct then USC fouls.

[RottingMind13]

I think depending on the situation the first one should be strongly considered to let go. Unless a person goes off on somebody (blank you you blanking blanking *explitive deleteds) they may have a heat of the moment slip. In this case I think a warning is ok (the slip). After that there must be some form of penalty although I think that USC and eventual ejection if it keeps happening does seem a bit severe. However, there is a point of USC because maybe they'll get it after a repetitive situation of being in the box.

[lehighvalleylax]

Saw that in a game yesterday, where the team's best midfielder was talking to his own player. A1, who is carrying the ball, says out loud "Get open" to his teammates. A2, good player and frustrated by losing game and season, says "pass the f@#*!ng ball". Flag and 1 min USC. Opposing team scored 2. I think that was a little harsh although the right call. It was loud enough for all to hear including grandmothers.

[LaxRef]

Saw that in a game yesterday, where the team's best midfielder was talking to his own player. A1, who is carrying the ball, says out loud "Get open" to his teammates. A2, good player and frustrated by losing game and season, says "pass the f@#*!ng ball". Flag and 1 min USC. Opposing team scored 2. I think that was a little harsh although the right call. It was loud enough for all to hear including grandmothers.

And here I don't think it's unwarranted. I think when someone lets one worrd slip out of frustration twice in a game and gets ejected, that's too harsh. I wouldn't even have a problem with them getting 1:00 NR for cursing if it didn't count toward the limit of 2 USCs in a game.

I think the real problem is that they've tried to legislate a zero-tolerance policy. While this seems like a great way to clean things up, such policies often lead to absurd conclusions, like getting ejected and suspended for saying the "S" word twice in a game, or like the (Indiana?) school kid who had left a small pocket knife in his jacket from the weekend, when he'd been whittling, realized when he was in school, and went to the school office as soon as he realized he had it to get rid of it. They suspended him for violating the zero-tolerance policy for weapons and are considering expulsion.

You have to leave some room for judgment.

[Bobsch]

They could just do like Jeremy: http://www.hamburgwarriors.com/downloads/Gazette4-26-2006.pdf

The funny thing was I never remember him swearing in German when he was in Germany, but he swears very well in English. He didn't have the first lax camp in Europe, though, as the article claims.

[RockStar]

I deal in different rules, so I deal with it differently.

If a player lets a couple of undirected F-bombs or equivalent slip (i.e. "ahh f---" on a missed shot), I'll ask them to watch their language, but won't penalize unless it's really persistent. Honestly, I knew those words and worse when I was 5, so what do I care if older kids use them sparingly and don't direct them at any specific person

If a player or coach directs a swear/slur at myself, another player, or coach, or a spectator, that gets penalized (i.e. "that's a terrible call, you dumb f---"). You progressively apply the penalties - 2-min USC to start, and follow that up with 10-min misconduct then game misconduct if necessary.

[spenny]

I deal in different rules, so I deal with it differently.

If a player lets a couple of undirected F-bombs or equivalent slip (i.e. "ahh f---" on a missed shot), I'll ask them to watch their language, but won't penalize unless it's really persistent. Honestly, I knew those words and worse when I was 5, so what do I care if older kids use them sparingly and don't direct them at any specific person

If a player or coach directs a swear/slur at myself, another player, or coach, or a spectator, that gets penalized (i.e. "that's a terrible call, you dumb f---"). You progressively apply the penalties - 2-min USC to start, and follow that up with 10-min misconduct then game misconduct if necessary.


as an untrained, non official, i think this is a fair application, altho after the second one i think its ok to penalize.
i mean how many warnings do you issue for other offenses before throwing the flag? this one shouldnt be any different.

[LaxRef]

I should follow up that we have been given a little leeway at the NCAA rules level. They've told us if the official and the player are the only ones who can hear it, give it a warning, but if other players and—especially—fans can hear it, flag it.

Also, if I guy sustains a compound fracture of his feemur and curses, let it go. But I'd better be able to see the bone sticking through the skin! :chuckle:

[Snake~eyes]

I voted "Other."

There is sooo much that goes into my determination of flagging profanity. According to the question, everyone would hear it. So 9/10 times this should be a flag, USC to be exact.

Things that I use:
-Flow of the game - is the game getting rough/out of hand
-First incident?
-Reason - is player mad at himself? cussing at a call ect.
-Who's it directed at?
-What word is used
-How loud is it?
-Does he have a legitimate reason to be cursing (as mentioned above, injury).
-What level is it? (HS vs. middle school)

[Snake~eyes]

Honestly, I knew those words and worse when I was 5, so what do I care if older kids use them sparingly and don't direct them at any specific person
Sure, I knew those words too, that shouldn't matter. There's a time to use profanity and there's a time not to use it. Chatting among friends, ok. Playing lacrosse is not a time to use it. I thought this was suppose to be the "gentlmen's sport."

[LaxRef]

Sure, I knew those words too, that shouldn't matter. There's a time to use profanity and there's a time not to use it. Chatting among friends, ok. Playing lacrosse is not a time to use it. I thought this was suppose to be the "gentlmen's sport."

In particular, they're concerned about the image of the sport, with parents and small children watching. And TV, at some levels.

Now more than ever we should be concerned with our image as a sport.

[RockStar]

.....I thought this was suppose to be the "gentlmen's sport."

Gentlemen? Well, it is not a gentle game, and has in fact been referred to as the little brother of war.

As such, if a directionless swear or two is uttered in frustration or pain, I'm really not going to worry about it. Penalties only come if swearing is excessive and recurring, or aimed directly at another person.

[LaxRef]

Gentlemen? Well, it is not a gentle game, and has in fact been referred to as the little brother of war.

As such, if a directionless swear or two is uttered in frustration or pain, I'm really not going to worry about it. Penalties only come if swearing is excessive and recurring, or aimed directly at another person.
Yeah, but don't you do box lacrosse? Do you have the "zero tolerance" policy that we supposedly have for US field lacrosse (NFHS and NCAA)?

[3rdPersonPlural]

What I've been doing is reminding the kids at the pre-face line up that "It's late in the season so I am confident that you all know the rules. I'm expecting to spend a pleasant afternoon doing nothing but calling sidelines and issuing 1 minute unsportsmanlikes when any of you cuss. Goalies cross."

Of course, it never turns out that way, but I never hear profanity.

[RockStar]

Yeah, but don't you do box lacrosse? Do you have the "zero tolerance" policy that we supposedly have for US field lacrosse (NFHS and NCAA)?

Yes, the fact that I work under a different ruleset was stated in the first post.

I was actually blissfully unaware that US lacrosse had a blanket zero-tolerance policy on all profanity.

Here's a question - does USLaX actually publish a a list of words and phrases that they consider profanity? Or do they just have a blanket rule against profanity and leave it to referees' discretion?

Unless it's been added this year, there is no such blanket policy where I work.

[scruffy221]

Usually if a teammate or myself let one slip out on the field the Ref just STERNLY cautions us about it and it doesn't happen again. But swearing occurances are few and far between on my team so it's not really an issue.

[LaxRef]

I was actually blissfully unaware that US lacrosse had a blanket zero-tolerance policy on all profanity.

Here's a question - does USLaX actually publish a a list of words and phrases that they consider profanity? Or do they just have a blanket rule against profanity and leave it to referees' discretion?

Just so we're clear, the organization US Lacrosse does not make the rules for field lacrose in the US. The NCAA and the NFHS write their own rules. The rulebooks actually don't state it as a zero-tolerance policy, but it's been a POE in NFHS lacrosse and a directive from on high in the NCAA rules.

No, there is no list of bad words published. My main reference for this purpose is George Carlin.

[WALaxRef]

With HS, if it is not loud enough for the crowd and coaches to hear, at the next dead ball I will make it a point to go to the offending player and ask if I heard what I thought I heard. before the player can answer I say the correct answer here is no sir you did not hear what you thought you heard.

If on the other hand, the player uses profanity loud enough to be heard in the cheap seats, he sits for a minute.

[mrmccool]

ive said this before on another thread, but my team lost to UVA last year at the NCLL Club Level. The score was 11-10. Throughout the game my team was assessed 6 potty mouth penalties (called as such). We were scored on during 5 of them. One of the penalties was when I missed a shot, and said the SH word. The ref was 15 feet away, and we were man down again. This one rule changed the entire gamme. I realize we should be able to control it after the first or even the second one, but does anyone think that's how it should be called? We play club!

[CavsDefense]

I was at a game about a week ago; two of the better teams in Delaware were playing (Ceaser Rodney and Cape Henlopen). Game goes into overtime, and young Coveleski starts screaming at his goalie to get him pumped for overtime (this is in the first minute of overtime, mind you). Anyway, Ref hears that he drops an F bomb while yelling at his goalie, and he in turn sits a 1:00 USC. The other team scored while they were man up. Game over.

Is this fair?

[LaxRef]

I was at a game about a week ago; two of the better teams in Delaware were playing (Ceaser Rodney and Cape Henlopen). Game goes into overtime, and young Coveleski starts screaming at his goalie to get him pumped for overtime (this is in the first minute of overtime, mind you). Anyway, Ref hears that he drops an F bomb while yelling at his goalie, and he in turn sits a 1:00 USC. The other team scored while they were man up. Game over.

Is this fair?

Is it fair to penalize a team for breaking the rules? Yes.

Are any rules suspended in overtime? No.

[Foxfirebass]

I was watching a game today, and team A had just gotten possession. Player A1, waiting for the ball, is talking to another player and says "damn it". Ref gives team B possession.

It was way weird, but yeah. Any other refs out there strict like that?

[RockStar]

..........

Are any rules suspended in overtime? No.

Apparently you've never watched NHL playoffs pre 2005-2006 season :naughty:

Seriously, I'm with you. Don't change the calls in overtime, just call the whole game as if it's overtime.