Toning Supplements

[smooth87]

Well I'm done with my mass building program and now I'm cutting/toning. I was wondering if there are any supplements dedicated to my goals. I'm thinking a fat burner might help, but should I still be taking creatine? I don't want to waste my money. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.

[Diesel4958]

If you are cutting get off creatine. You could hop on a Gurana/caffeine pill I used the Diet Pill by Twin lab I liked it It made me pumped and really lean.

[krantz]

Creatine is like expresso of protein, it helps mostly to rebuild muscle faster so if I was you I would cut it out. Not a pill but if you start eating more things with carbs in them and drinking water that should help too. I'm not 100% on all of this though

[Dose]

Creatine is like expresso of protein, it helps mostly to rebuild muscle faster so if I was you I would cut it out. Not a pill but if you start eating more things with carbs in them and drinking water that should help too. I'm not 100% on all of this though

no, no, no. What creatine does is replenish your muscles ATP supplies. ATP is what your muscles use for short intense excercises. Creatine allows you to work harder, therefore making bigger gains.

as for my recommendations, look at your diet first. Your diet is probably not perfect, so supplements would be kinda pointless.

[WHEELAX2]

toning is all about changing your metabolism... when weight gaining, you are taking in massive amounts of calories, supplements, and lifting heavier weights, generally; you are also not doing a lot of cardio

when toning, you have to cut calories, eat smaller meals, and eat more often,.. you should also switch to lighter weights and higher reps; you should also mix in cardio as well.. you might see a decrease in mass, but you will cut for sure

remember, there is a good amount of fat stored in muscles, so your muscles might shrink, but you should keep your overall strength.

[BuckWyld]

What exactly do you mean by toning? I hate that word it is stupid. Your muscles can do two possibly three things. First is Hypertrophy which is increasing the size of the muscle fiber, second is atrophy when your muscle fibers get smaller and MAYBE hyperplasia. Toning is a stupid word made up to make stupid women feel like they are doing something while lifting their 2.5lbs weight so they dont have to worry about looking like Ronnie C. I don't think the word toning belongs in any serious discussion about fitness or weight lifting, or any inteligent conversation really.



remember, there is a good amount of fat stored in muscles, so your muscles might shrink, but you should keep your overall strength.


can you back this up at all? Because I don't think that there is any fat in muscle, there can be fat over muscles but not inside, i think

[WHEELAX2]

can I back it up at all??

can you back up your argument with facts?? "I think".. are you kidding me?


Muscles have fat stores that help produce energy.

have you ever eaten a steak??

have you ever seen the fat in the middle of the steak??


4. Fiber Types
A. Red, oxidative, slow
i) smaller fibers, not as powerful nor as fast

ii) lots of myoglobin, good blood supply, and concentrated mitochondria give dark color

iii) stockpile fat and glycogen

source: http://science.tjc.edu/Course/BIOLOGY/bott/anatomy/2401/Muscle%20summary.htm


"Fats are not always visible in foods. Sometimes they are visible and sometimes they are hidden. Visible fats can be easily removed – if of course we want to. A steak has fat that is visible and can be cut off, but it also has hidden fat inside the muscle tissue, that cannot be seen. Almost all foods have hidden fats and this is why, no matter how much one may want to follow a diet without any fat, it is impossible to accomplish it."

^source: http://www.gourmed.gr/mediterranean-diet/health/index.asp











now back on topic:

here is a good resource:


http://www.fatlosstips.com/

[BuckWyld]

WHEELAX, I am still not convinced that there is any significant volume of fat IN muscle fibers. There can obviously be fat around the muscle, which I think is what the fat you see in a steak or the fat you need to cut to see your six pack. Loosing weight will reduce the size of your arms and chest some what but I dont think it is because of fat in muscle being lost, it is because of the atrophy of fat cells on top of muscles.

http://faculty.southwest.tn.edu/rburkett/AP_I_2.jpg

if you look in that diagram, there is no significant fat inside the muscles themselves.

[WHEELAX2]

WHEELAX, I am still not convinced that there is any significant volume of fat IN muscle fibers. There can obviously be fat around the muscle, which I think is what the fat you see in a steak or the fat you need to cut to see your six pack. Loosing weight will reduce the size of your arms and chest some what but I dont think it is because of fat in muscle being lost, it is because of the atrophy of fat cells on top of muscles.

http://faculty.southwest.tn.edu/rburkett/AP_I_2.jpg

if you look in that diagram, there is no significant fat inside the muscles themselves.




fat stores in muscles vary from person to person. someone who is intentionally gaining weight will not only gain fat on the subcutaneous level, but also inside the muscles as well. muscles store fat in order to make fuel for the muscles...

the diagram you have shown is a muscle diagram to show the inner workings of a muscle.. if you were to show me a diagram of a heart, it wouldn't show fat either.. but we all know full well that fat can be stored in the vessels and other vascular tissue of the heart; which causes heart attacks, etc..

you could also give me the make up of someone's blood, but would it show lead, drugs, disease, etc??

[BuckWyld]

I am not convinced, but all the "loose fat quickly" bs on the web is making it hard to find good links to back up what I am saying.

[Cburylax]

Well I'm done with my mass building program and now I'm cutting/toning. I was wondering if there are any supplements dedicated to my goals. I'm thinking a fat burner might help, but should I still be taking creatine? I don't want to waste my money. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.

I would lay off the creatine if you're changing your strength training program or if you've been doing the same thing for over 8 weeks. Before you invest in any supplement, try cleaning up your diet and adding some high intensity cardio to your workout.

--------------------

Fat is present as intramuscular triglycerides in muscle cells but not stored in any significant amount. I'm no biochemist but you can find just about anything in the cytoplasm of any cell, probably due to passive transport across the cell membrane. Fat storage is found in adipose tissue, bloodstream, and the liver, places that can handle large amount of fat deposits. I dont' really see much arguement that losing fat will decrease the size of your muscles since primary fat storage is found in other places of the body.

Buck is correct about toning....you're either growing or you're not. Leave the "toning" to the ladies.

Xeclipse19 - nice post on cocaine, may be you should try crack as well.

[WHEELAX2]

I am not convinced, but all the "loose fat quickly" bs on the web is making it hard to find good links to back up what I am saying.


http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20051108_191911_5868

[Cburylax]

http://www.medicalpost.com/mpcontent/article.jsp?content=20051108_191911_5868

That article doesn't have anything to do with fat loss and your theory of muscle atrophy. It just says fat people are more prone to storing fat in muscle and have a harder time losing it.

[WHEELAX2]

That article doesn't have anything to do with fat loss and your theory of muscle atrophy. It just says fat people are more prone to storing fat in muscle and have a harder time losing it.


it shows that in fact muscles store fat.. in response to previous posts about muscles not storing fat.. thanks for pointing that out for me though..

your post is a post about my post being about something about fat and something about muscles..

and I never called it muscle atrophy.. muscle atrophy is caused by the body using muscle tissue for energy

muscle atrophy: http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/003188.htm

and it's not a theory.. it's a proven fact:

MUSCLES STORE FAT

look inside the cut aways of the visible human, tell me there's no fat inside his/her muscles:

http://www.dhpc.adelaide.edu.au/projects/vishuman2/

[WHEELAX2]

anyway.. back on topic.. if you can.. get yourself the Bodybuilding Encyclopedia written By A.S..

[Cburylax]

it shows that in fact muscles store fat.. in response to previous posts about muscles not storing fat.. thanks for pointing that out for me though..

Of course muscle stores fat...I never disagreed.

your post is a post about my post being about something about fat and something about muscles..

You were trying to make a point that your muscles will shrink if you lose fat....


remember, there is a good amount of fat stored in muscles, so your muscles might shrink, but you should keep your overall strength.but com'on...you're talking about obese people, they have fat everywhere, it has to go somewhere.

...and I never called it muscle atrophy.. muscle atrophy is caused by the body using muscle tissue for energy

Ok, why do you think bodybuilders bulk then cut? Could it be because their muscles atrophy during their cutting cycle?

My whole reason for diggin into you is because I don't think that intra-muscular fat stores have any kind of significant role in muscle "atrophy".

I guess I should put a disclaimer and say, "...unless you're steroyl-CoA desaturase is out of whack....

[Diesel4958]

What exactly do you mean by toning? I hate that word it is stupid. Your muscles can do two possibly three things. First is Hypertrophy which is increasing the size of the muscle fiber, second is atrophy when your muscle fibers get smaller and MAYBE hyperplasia. Toning is a stupid word made up to make stupid women feel like they are doing something while lifting their 2.5lbs weight so they dont have to worry about looking like Ronnie C. I don't think the word toning belongs in any serious discussion about fitness or weight lifting, or any inteligent conversation really.




can you back this up at all? Because I don't think that there is any fat in muscle, there can be fat over muscles but not inside, i think
I've heard of there being fat in muscle tissue, I don't know about a lot but i recently read a book where they taled about this. It's not all bs...

[BuckWyld]

I meant that toning is bs, not fat in muscles. That part I can believe, I just don't think that fat makes up any significant volume of your muscles.

[Big-Red]

I did a big cut of like 15 pounds of fat, but now I won't lose any more weight and I am doing the same things bt I can still lose 3 pounds of fat. Should I try to raise my metabolism back up and then cut again or what? I eat under 2000 carbs on most days, sometimes a break it by 100 or 2 but compensate the next day by going under. I lift weights 3-5 times a week, and I do participate in lacrosse practice.

I don't have time in my schedule right now to run more than once or twice a week (weekends). Is there anything else I can do to lose these 3 pounds?

[WHEELAX2]

I meant that toning is bs, not fat in muscles. That part I can believe, I just don't think that fat makes up any significant volume of your muscles.


I never said it makes up a significant portion of your muscle..


what you "think" and what is fact are two different things

I'll agree to disagree though and move on

[shiftylax]

We shall all move on...

To another thread.

Closed.