Crease Violation Scenario

[LaxRef]

NCAA Rules.

Goalie A1 makes the save and has possession in the crease. Attackman B1 steps into the crease, then steps back out. The four-second count expires or the goalie's outlet pass is incomplete.

Ruling?

[I know what I would rule here, but I'm curious what other people would rule and why.]

[Snake~eyes]

Well I won't ruin the trivia fun, I'll wait for others to post. :)

[HdGLaxWarrior]

I think thats B1 in the crease, but I'm just a player. But, I will be refing in 2 years.

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by HdGLaxWarrior
I think thats B1 in the crease, but I'm just a player. But, I will be refing in 2 years.

Yes, B1 is in the crease. But the real question is, what do you do about it in this situation?

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Blow your whistle, and then I dont know.

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by LaxRef
NCAA Rules.

Goalie A1 makes the save and has possession in the crease. Attackman B1 steps into the crease, then steps back out. The four-second count expires or the goalie's outlet pass is incomplete.

Ruling?

[I know what I would rule here, but I'm curious what other people would rule and why.]

That's a toughie.

Technical foul on B1, crease violation.

I'm calling a "play on." If the count expires or the outlook pass is incomplete, I blow the whistle and award the ball to team A at the center line.

Mike

[spenny]

that's one that really gets the parents wound up. FWIW, i think MikeD has it right, but many people think its an automatic clear. especially when the goalie completes the outlet pass, ending the play on, immediately followed by his teammate the ball turning it over. lots of yelling at that point.

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by michaeldwilson
That's a toughie.

Technical foul on B1, crease violation.

I'm calling a "play on." If the count expires or the outlook pass is incomplete, I blow the whistle and award the ball to team A at the center line.

Mike

That would be my call as well. It clearly has to be a play on, since team A still has the ball. If they had the ball outside the crease, it would be a flag down. If the keeper didn't have possession and the ball was in the crease, it would be a play on (which would end if the keeper picked up the ball; otherwise, defense gets the ball outsid ethe box). If it were *interference* with the goalie, it would be a free clear unless the goalie ran the ball out or completed an outlet pass.

However, I can't find anything in the rules that covers where the ball is put in play if there is a crease violation with possession in the crease. It seems like it should be a free clear--analagous to interference--but I can't find anything that *says* that.

The only other option, of course, is to give the clearing team possession outside the box, but since they already *had* possession that doesn't seem to be enough of a penalty.

What do you think?

-Harold

[spenny]

i agree it doesnt seem like enough of a penalty.

was i correct in assuming that the play on ends after the completed pass from the keeper?

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by LaxRef


However, I can't find anything in the rules that covers where the ball is put in play if there is a crease violation with possession in the crease. It seems like it should be a free clear--analagous to interference--but I can't find anything that *says* that.
What do you think?

-Harold

No, it's certainly not explicit in the book, but given the analogous situation of possession and interference, I think we should use our judgment and go to center line. After all, judgments are our game.

Mike

[Snake~eyes]

I think you can argue that technically when the goalie has the ball and someone steps in the crease it is interefence and should be enforced via 6.2.3

[spenny]

i couldnt find the reference 6.2.3, but it appeared to me that the free clear is only awarded on interference, not the crease violation.

am i misunderstand ing you?

it sounds unecessarily complicated to me.

[Snake~eyes]

Not really sure what I was aruging; it was late.

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Not really sure what I was aruging; it was late.

Actually, I'm buying your argument.

Think about it: What's appropriate for a crease violation with posession in the crease? The rules clearly state that it's a play on, but don't explicitly tell what the penalty is. There are three options:

1) Flag down. This one is out, because they specifically note that flag down occurs with a crease violation with possession out of the crease. If they wanted a flag down, they wouldn't have specified the "outside of the crease" part.

2) Award possession outside the box if the goalie doesn't run the ball out or complete an outlet pass. But the goalie already *has* possession; I can't think of any instance in the rules where a foul results in awarding to possession to the team that already *has* possession without any other penalty being imposed.

3) Award a free clear if the goalie doesn't run the ball out or complete an outlet pass. This one just seems to make sense to everyone I've talked to. It's midway between the other two options. And since the rules don't explicitly say one way or the other, that's what I'll go with until I hear a convincing argument against it.

I do intend to bring this to the attention of the rules committee to see if they'll add a clarification.

[rilax]

Remember that the free clear is only associated with an interference penalty. Since the goalie did not complete an outlet pass or ran out of the crease the ball is awarded to his team 20 yards latterly from the goal.

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by rilax
Remember that the free clear is only associated with an interference penalty. Since the goalie did not complete an outlet pass or ran out of the crease the ball is awarded to his team 20 yards latterly from the goal.

Well, not ONLY with interference; it also comes into play whenever there's a time-serving penalty in the defensive end.

Don't you find it odd that the penalty you propose if the goalie has possession is the same as the one specified in the rules if there is no possession?

Can you agree that the rules don't address this case explicitly?

[rilax]

Yes their needs to be some implicating reading of the rules but I do not find it odd. Basically if the ball is loose the team gets possession that is the end of it. However if there is possession of the ball the team gets two opportunities to complete an outlet pass one by the goalie and if he fails another one 20 yards lateral to the goal by a member of the clearing team. Remember rule 6.2.2 says “… Any crease violation by an attacking player while the ball is in the crease shall result in a play-on.” It makes no reference to the ball being in possession or not so why should the enforcement be different.