Using the Stick to Remain Onsides

[michaeldwilson]

Player A almost runs into the crease, but puts head of the stick in the crease, and "pole vaults" so that he doesn't land in the crease. Is this a crease violation?

Mike

[smitt5168]

no, the stick is not part of the body. if he hits the goalie it's a penalty.

[Snake~eyes]

Yes it is a crease violation. If he uses his stick to hold him up or keep him out of the crease then he is in the crease. Just like if he were to use his stick to keep him from being offsides.

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Yes it is a crease violation. If he uses his stick to hold him up or keep him out of the crease then he is in the crease. Just like if he were to use his stick to keep him from being offsides.

Um, I don't think so. Offensive players are explicitly allowed to reach into the crease with their sticks to play a loose ball, although they do so at the risk that they'll come in contact with the goalie and be called for interference. Similarly, you can reach across midfield with your stick without being offside.

(The exception is that, while the gloved hand on the stick is considered part of the stick for the purposes of slashing, a gloved hand on the stick in contact with the ground is considered part of the body. Thus, falling with both hands around the stick so your hands are in the crease puts you in the crease.)

I don't see how using your stick to maintain balance and stay out of the crease can be ruled a crease violation. The most relevant rules seem to be:

"An attacking player may not be in the opponent’s goal-crease area at any time."

("Stick" is clearly not part of the player.) And:

"An attacking player may reach within the crease area to play a loose ball as long as hedoes not make contact with the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper’s crosse."

[Snake~eyes]

Sorry LaxRef but there is a specific case play on this.

[Snake~eyes]

Here's the caseplay I was referring to. And I got the NCAA ruling just for you! :)

NCAA A.R. 53. B1 is chasing A1. As A1 crosses center line, B1 stops with both of his feet in his
defensive half of the field. However, he falls over center line with both his hands
wrapped around his crosse and crosse resting in offensive side of center line. RULING:
B1 is offside. (This also applies to crease.)

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Here's the caseplay I was referring to. And I got the NCAA ruling just for you! :)

NCAA A.R. 53. B1 is chasing A1. As A1 crosses center line, B1 stops with both of his feet in his
defensive half of the field. However, he falls over center line with both his hands
wrapped around his crosse and crosse resting in offensive side of center line. RULING:
B1 is offside. (This also applies to crease.)

Yeah, that's the rule I was referring to. But this case is specifically pointing out that if the HANDS touch offside (or in the crease) then you're offside (or in the crease) even though elsewhere it says that the gloved hand on the stick is part of the stick.

This does not apply to the stick itself touching the other side of the field or in the crease.

[michaeldwilson]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Here's the caseplay I was referring to. And I got the NCAA ruling just for you! :)

NCAA A.R. 53. B1 is chasing A1. As A1 crosses center line, B1 stops with both of his feet in his
defensive half of the field. However, he falls over center line with both his hands
wrapped around his crosse and crosse resting in offensive side of center line. RULING:
B1 is offside. (This also applies to crease.)

Hey Snake,

This scenerio is clear, but what if the player does not
touch the defensive half or crease with any part of his
body, only the crosse? That's the difference with the
"pole vaulting" scenerio.

Mike

[Snake~eyes]

The way I read it is the player has his hands wrapped around the cross and is leaning on the stick without his hands touching offsides. But I guess it could be read your way but it is not clear that the hands are touching offsides.

[Thrillhouse]

Has anyone ever seen this happen? I don’t think a lacrosse head, even the stiffer ones, could support such a feat, not to mention the upper body strength that it would require. The shaft might bend as well.
That beings said, most of the rules cite that it’s OK to play the ball off sides or in the crease as long as you don't enter the crease, but our pole vaulting player wouldn’t be making a play on the ball would he?

[cloo24]

acut yeah i have my friends did it last year over benchs lol it was kinda stupid but cool at the same time he put the butt end on the groud and his hands on the scoop

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by cloo24
acut yeah i have my friends did it last year over benchs lol it was kinda stupid but cool at the same time he put the butt end on the groud and his hands on the scoop
That right there is how I had interperated the case play I posted above.

[TheKOB]

I think it would still be illegal, just like if an attackman jumped over through the crease. Besides, what's to stop someone from making stilts out of a lacrosse stick and walking over to the other side to get in on a play or screen the goalie INSIDE the crease?

[LaxRef]

Originally posted by TheKOB
I think it would still be illegal, just like if an attackman jumped over through the crease. Besides, what's to stop someone from making stilts out of a lacrosse stick and walking over to the other side to get in on a play or screen the goalie INSIDE the crease?

An attackman CAN jump through the crease legally, as long as he has doesn't land in the crease; the rules are clear on this. That's why there are so many rules that talk about contact with the defense as he jumps through and whether the attackman had the potential to land outside the crease before the contact.

And I defy you to make stilts out of a single, unbroken lacrosse stick. But even if you did, any official worth his salt would judge this to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

[Snake~eyes]

I don't think I could call this Unsportsmalike Conduct, anyone who's able to make a stilt out of their lacrosse stick shouldn't be penalized. :laugh

[TheKOB]

Originally posted by LaxRef
And I defy you to make stilts out of a single, unbroken lacrosse stick. But even if you did, any official worth his salt would judge this to be unsportsmanlike conduct.

He also has to not touch the goalie as well..

I smell a challenge, I should warn you though, that I've been known to do much dumber things when bored on a sunday afternoon.... :laugh

It does sound like it would be "altering a stick to gain advantage" which is what was quoted in the hole-in-the-stick thread. I was just using an extreme case to state my example. I might get on of my guys to do it (jump through, not make stilts...) just to test the refs in a throw away game.....