Thawed Out after 25 Years or so

[Nean Derthal]

Played lacrosse (middy) in late 1970's LI NY jr high and high school. Passed on a community college recruitment offer to work my way through college. Played some club and wall ball for a few years but basically got into the martial arts and other things and forgot about lacrosse (other than watching an occasional game on TV). Recently bought my kids the STX fiddle sticks and we had a blast with my old sticks and them in the backyard. I was blown away by the new "tech" of these "toy" sticks so I checked around online to learn more about what's going on which led to my restringing my old Superlite and Superlite II with some new jimalax mesh and began firing shots in the backyard. I was really blown away then - never remembered that kind of performance out of those sticks with the old mesh/standards I used to use. I have stayed in decent shape, but even though I am approaching geezerdom, I was still able to rifle shots with precision and power with those new pockets (modern stringing - one with some whip). That led me to buy a new Warrior Blade off some liquidater on ebay - and now I am just stunned.

So like a caveman frozen in ice for 25 years, I have thawed out my interest in lax (potential scholarships for the kids sound good in the future too) and I can't beleive the stick, the depth of the sidewall, the feather light weight of the stick, the flimsy flexibility of the head. The shot is faster with the new stick and even with the pinch and deep pocket, the stick is easy to catch and pass with but man we used to feel like we had a weapon in our hands (used to use the old wooden shafts occasionally with those old heavy plastic heads for extra whomp) but how do some of you older guys compare today's game to 25 years ago? The strength training and technology has obviously improved significantly but how about the game itself? Our whole team often ran 4 miles before practice and we middies played both ways (1st string close to the whole game) with short sticks (no face-off/defense switching) and we beat the hell out of each other (which doesn't seem as easily accomplished with these light modern sticks?). I have seen recent college games and the athletes are incredible and the sticks/pockets retain the ball like its glued there (making for some excellent entertainment) but the passing and shooting doesn't seem to be much improved, seems to be less hitting, and the line changes seem to slow down the game? But again, I'm a caveman still thawing out - anybody have any opinions on the change in the game over the past 25 years or so? Thanks and sorry if this is the wrong forum - I'm new to this place.

[Nean Derthal]

Never heard of a coach without an opinion so I guess most on here are too young to make comparisons between today's game and the game of a couple decades ago? No problem.

[Mrmccoolsatool]

Ya it really is amazing the changes that lacrosse has gone through. I remember my first year, Everyone had bucket helmets. These days you never see one. and highwalls were everywhere. The game is just growing and growing, some for the better.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Nean, I thawed out about 4 years ago, and am now an active Official and U-13 coach and have taken to playing in alumni games as well.

The quality of the play has gone up a lot in my opinion. There are a few dozen teams out here in cali who could easily beat the WNEPSA (now founders league) champ team I played on back in the late '70's

I'll comment more later. Busy day....

[BTlaxripper]

You're using a Superlight II? Jeez you weren't kidding!

Haha just joking. . . it's awesome to have another lacrosse player rejoin the ranks.

The technology of the game changes and changes so much it is crazy -- you get about 1 good innovation out of 10 that companies dream up.

I think that there has been a change of focus from cardio health in lacrosse, to all around strength. Which has its ups and downs. Yeah, shots are faster, hits are harder. . . but substitutions left and right.

On varsity two years ago, we ran two miles before every practice, and that was as a secret weapon kind of thing. . . to get us from never making playoffs to going first round. So it was obvious nobody was running as much as us.

It is so hard to reach that golden mean -- the perfect blend of cross country runner endurance, and weightlifter strength -- that would get you so far in lacrosse.

[Nean Derthal]

Hey thanks for the responses guys. Yes I wasn't kidding about the old sticks with new mesh. Unbelievable how the old stick feels like you feel mostly the stick in your hands but with the new stick you feel mostly the ball, with a perfect one finger balance point about an inch below the neck screw. I figured the game and the athletes are much improved from the older days and its good to see lacrosse becoming more popular and more recognized by the college recruitment process. Although it seems I would still probably prefer to face off with a Superlite to avoid the flexible offset modern head - the equipment improvement is amazing, including the protective gear. Much better than the old bulky two piece gloves, rattling helmets (had a shot actually come through my face mask bars once), and fabric/foam (football) forearm pads (most guys tossed off the "mechanical" armpads by varsity). The only time I wore shoulder pads was after a seperated shoulder forced me to, but ditched those as soon as possible. The back of my right shoulder had the imprint of the opposing midies face mask bars for a few days after that hit. So don't be too sure about the harder hits today - although their stick handling lacked any finesse, we had some very big muscular monsters on D that could literally knock the snot out of you if you didn't hear their hoofbeats coming on a ground ball ha ha. Plus crease attack men were never, never to be left standing - never! Good stuff - keep those lacrosse fires stoked guys!

[BuckWyld]

While I think that some of your points are valid, I think that comparing your HS level of play to college is where you are seeing most of the differences. At the high school level there is more frequent body checking but that is because the quality of the offensive players is much less. You don't see d-men at the college level looking body all the time because they will get burned, that being said, the college d-men alot of times are big strong guys who will make an attackmen pay for mistakes. I think you are suffering from back-in-the-day-itis I am guessing if your HS defense "monsters" were sent out on a college field they would look like scared little kids.
And if not having specialized face-off and d middies were a better way to play then we would still be seeing it. The ability to get a 4th longstick on the field as often as possible really helps on defense. And some people are really great face-off guys or great offense guys but not great at other stuff.

[Bodhisattvah]

I hear you. I dropped all involvement in the game in the early 90's. I played in HS through the 80's. When I got involved again in 2001 as a coach, I was not sure what to think. I showed up for the first practice with my traditional strung SAM on an old wood shaft and the kids all thought I was nuts. I kept seeing all this hard mesh and I was not sure when this fad had come on. Nobody used hard mesh when I was in HS. I kept asking them why they used that junk and why not traditional. I kept getting the same answer that traditional was too hard to control the ball with. Then I had to get used to the rule changes. I guess I really did not mind most of them, after all, that old stalling pass back ride on a clear used to annoy me as a player.

As far as the new sticks, I am not sure what to think. I do not like the pinched heads. I think it makes players lazy and they have a tendency to try to iso every chance they get. We had a game this year where a ref did a half time stick check on this kid from the other team and when he turned the stick upside down, the ball stayed inside and just sat. I think the stick was a Kannon. The ref was actually laughing as he threw the flag. Heck, when I played, it took two of those huge foam stoppers piled on top of each other to get your SAM or SL2 to do that. And then, the ball would kind of slowly roll out. The pocket depth is kind of nuts as well. I was always taught to play with a mid depth to improve and that a deep pocket was for a beginner. But hey, to each his own. I like the X2 and the Warrior Revo. Too bad the X2 is hard to find. Most of the kids I coach use Evo's and X3's.

[Nean Derthal]

You make some good points BuckW but my younger Brother in Laws did not pass on the same community college offer I had and wound up recruited at UMass (mid to late 80's I think) and one started Mid (later playing professionally in Boston for a short while before taking a better paying job) and the other was a big attackman switched to starting D. Both of them had excellent stick skills and quickness and lifted hard and heavy in the gym yet neither of them were ever as "monsterish" as a few of the D-men we faced in high school. I played with them and other college players in local club games too and alot of the d-men were big and powerfull but polished and skilled (less goonish than a typical high school football linebacker/lineman handed a long stick and told to go hit people). I'm not saying there are no "monsters" in college today - there obviously are and that wasn't really the point. My comment is not meant to be disrespectful to the present - I'm just wondering if there seems to be less hitting. Yes there was always a skill progression from high school to college and on where stick handling and passing/catching skills were so high that there were much fewer mistakes and loose balls (loose balls are still a great man/ball opportunity for leveling guys I presume?). My curiousity is more along those lines - have the line changes and the pinched heads/deep pockets caused a slow down of the game combined with much greater ball control to the point where there are less opportunities for good legal body hits? Maybe my brother in law reference is not current enough or UMass or club players of old is not a good representation of today - and I definately may have some back in the day itis or whatever - but I always try not to make the mistake of dismissing something from the past just because I wasn't there to witness it.

[BuckWyld]

I didn't want to come off as confrontational, but sometimes the things we see and do as kids feel "bigger" than if you were seeing them now. I have run in to people from my highschool that were the "monsters" of our football team or whatever, and they are less impressive than I remember. Anyway I have not seen a highschool game in many years, but I do remember that the college players of the time ~10 years ago played with more finess and less hitting than we did, and there were some guys who were huge for hs ball and made nasty hits, but they couldn't keep up with players with real skill

[Nean Derthal]

No worries man and yes that rethink later thing does happen but this was a blue collar type HS. Some of these guys were left back and most were more likely to see the inside of a jail cell than a college classroom, Valid point about the big hitter vs. skill (see my goon reference). My point again was leaning towards equipment and line changes not so much the HS to college skill changes - but its all part of a civilized discussion - who knew a cave man could be civil - later.

[BuckWyld]

As far as the equipment, I feel like it is a mixed bag, especially recently. Although my experience does not go back as far as yours.

Helmets - the helmets have probably improved the most in the time I have been playing, they are more comfortable with better vision and better protection.

Gloves - I feel like gloves really have seen the most improvement in the last 5ish years. The Brine L series were basically the best gloves around from the late 80's (early 90's?) untill at least '98. But recently gloves seem to have really evolved.

Shoulder Pads - The changes in shoulder pads at least in the last 10 years get a resounding meh from me. I just don't see any significant improvements.

Elbow Pads - see shoulder pads.

Heads - I think heads have regressed recently, but only because they have become more homogenous, every head is trying to be super pinched and super light, I don't mind the pinch but when you take away plastic you loose strength and stiffness, which I like to have. It is like the companies have decided that all lax players are 14 year-old noodle arms. Give me a choice, at this point I dont even care what I buy, I just get the cheapest one because I know it will break or warp before long.

shafts - Same as heads, I don't want to spend $200 on a shaft because it is 2oz lighter. I have been using the same F-15 and I believe that it is the perfect shaft, it is durable but not too heavy, has a good solid feel and cost less than $100.

[3rdPersonPlural]

The older I get, the better I was.................

[Nean Derthal]

Discussion kind of went no where. Wasn't about ME and some kind of delusion I was having about MY ability in the past. If I really cared about my lacrosse skills I wouldn't have left the game behind so young and moved onto other things. It was about the game. I still would like to see more body hits at the higher levels - for the games sake - as a nonplayer, noncoach or non-any kind of person actively involved with the game - nothing to do with me as a player - but me as a passive viewer (and just in case you are wondering - although I worked my way through an MBA and became a financial services executive in Manhattan that has financed professional sports leagues in the past - I have no delusions about my historical passive viewing abilities either ha ha). I watch the NFL yes for the speed and agility but also for the massive pops. I thought some might share that sentiment and think greater ball retention leads to less hitting (and in the past ball retention was less). Forget I brought it up. I'm out.

[Pitibear]

this is possibly the best thread initiation I have seen in my three months on this board.

Sorry that some of our colleagues on the board have gotten the thread sidetracked.

The buckets and wooden sticks of my previous rec-level association with the sport, perhaps like yours, have given way to a high-tech, take the ball and throw it mentality.

I find that our current, rec-level play in my locale does place a higher demand on tactical creativity, rather than brute force, but maybe that's 'cause we're wimps...

I think that, at the collegiate and pro level, the game of lacrosse has progresed exactly like all the other major sports in athletic development, nutrition, tactical development, and tech application to equipment and training. I don't think lax is any different in progress than the other guys.

Congratulations on your re-finding the game...it's obvious that you care as much now as you ever had before, and maybe moreso.

It sounds like now, you are just out to have pure fun with it, and that sounds like the best motivation ever.

Way to go...

[LongIslandLax]

Long Island..eh? Me too, what part? Im still playing.