Can the Ivy League compete anymore?

[Tiger75]

The Ivy League sent four teams to the Big Dance - they went a combined 1-4 and were outscored 53-33 in five NCAA events.
Quint Kessenich


Now that lacrosse talent is broader and deeper, can a league that does not allow athletic scholarships compete with those that do?

[raykessler]

yes they can, they are traditionally good schools that people want to go to, and they are still amazing teams. Just because maryland hasn't won an NCAA championchip in about 20 years, that dosn't mean their a bad team. They have just had several off years.

[somrandomguy]

Are you sure the Ivy League doesn't allow athletic scholarships? From what I've heard, the only scholarships you can get at Ivy League schools are athletic.

[RottingMind13]

yes they can, they are traditionally good schools that people want to go to, and they are still amazing teams. Just because maryland hasn't won an NCAA championchip in about 20 years, that dosn't mean their a bad team. They have just had several off years.


Maryland isnt an Ivy League school, nowhere near close..... :WTF:

[TitansLax08]

Maryland isnt an Ivy League school, nowhere near close..... :WTF:
I am pretty sure that is exactly his point...

They aren't and haven't won a title in 20 years or whatever (They give out scholarships).

[MeRattack]

^its the opposite

[fossil8412]

Are you sure the Ivy League doesn't allow athletic scholarships? From what I've heard, the only scholarships you can get at Ivy League schools are athletic.

Yes, they are not allowed to. However, there are all sorts of loopholes, such as additional "financial aid" and what not...

[raykessler]

Maryland isnt an Ivy League school, nowhere near close..... :WTF:


my point is that even though maryland hasn't won in many many years extreme talent continues to go to it, and it continues to be considered an excellent team.

edie: i was using it as an example

[ron_burgundy]

the problem for these schools might be the kind of kids they can admit. i'm sure the admissions department is tougher on athletes in ivy league schools than even very reputable non-ivy schools. cornell was recruiting a kid from around here, but the kid just didnt have the grades to go. that's got to hurt the ivy league schools.

[laxstar841]

they can definetly still compete. They are not allowed to give out athletic scholar ships, but as somebody above me said there are "loopholes"

[spenny]

ron is correct, while the ivys dont give athletic scholarships, they do offer need based aid.
the biggest problem for the ivys in recruiting is getting kids that have the GPA and SATs to get in and more importantly stay in. coaches get some leeway in that department, but even if you are mike powell junior and have a C average, you arent getting in

[fossil8412]

The Ivys didn't even have that bad of a year this year. They have 4 teams in the top 20 (Cornell, Penn, Princeton, Harvard), and really the only team that played BADLY was Brown... So what that they didn't win the NCAA... Every conference has their bad years, though the Ivy rarely has them.... They also have a solid representation, with 7 teams... The ACC only has 4. So, I think they Ivy is definitely still good.

[NYlaxLI]

An Ivy league diploma i worth more than any scholarship. That alone is enough to attract the top talent.

[RottingMind13]

my point is that even though maryland hasn't won in many many years extreme talent continues to go to it, and it continues to be considered an excellent team.

edie: i was using it as an example

Oh, ok. I got confused by what you were saying then.

[8-ball]

The Ivy League schools are always going to be good. At the same time however, the spread of the game is going to have more schools competing at a higher level. Denver made its first play-off appearance this year, and just a couple of years ago, OSU went as high as number 5 in the rankings, before being knocked down by North Carolina in the first round. Notre Dame is still really good. My point is, the Ivy League is still good, and can still compete, but they're also dealing with other programs that are picking up spead and are now able to compete a lot more then just 5-10 years ago.

[PekinSt]

There are no Merit Scholarships in the IVY League. Financial Aid yes, Athletic Scholarships, no. NONE,,,NADA,,,,The one advantage an IVY school can provide, beyond their obvious elite academic status and their legitimate D-1 competition, is their ability to provide an IVY League "Likely Letter." When all the proper forms, recommendations and transcripts of a "recruited student athlete" are complete and are in the respective Ivy Admission staff's office those Admissions people can issue what the IVY LEAGUE calls a "Likely Letter". This letter clearly states that, given what has been submitted to the admissions committee, the named recruited student athlete will "Likely" be admitted to the school.

Given the competition of IVY admissions the "Likely Letter" is a huge stress relief for a "recruited student athlete." Althought there is no Athletic Scholarship money a recruit can enter his Senior year of HS knowing, as early as October, that he or she will "Likely" be accepted and that is long before the "Early Decision" notices go out. Keep your nose clean and adequately maintain your grades and you know you're in as early as October of your senior year. No sweating more SATs, APs, applications, recomendations, double teams, early slides, injuries, etc. and your into one of the most difficult schools in the world to get accepted to.

Other elite schools like Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame do give Athletic Scholarship however their dirty little secret is that many of the kids on their rosters are not receiving Athletic Scholarship money, no matter what those players and their families tell you publicly. It's all part of the recruiting mix where some players have partial scholarship and/or financial aid, some have no athletic scholarship money, some have no Financial Aid money and then some players are recruited either with the staff's advanced knowledge that they have superior grades or it is apparent to the staff that they can afford to pay their own way. The value of knowing, as early as October of your senior year, where you're going to play the next season can be more valuable to some families than the dollars that may or may not be waiting later down the line. It really helps to honestly assess which catagory that you believe you, or your player and your family, are in. The only sure bet in college recruiting is it is NEVER OVER until it's OVER and the window opportunity changes daily.

[Oside Lax]

An Ivy league diploma i worth more than any scholarship. That alone is enough to attract the top talent.

true i would gladly go to cornell or another ivy leauge school even if i had no chance of playing for the school

[Gaib]

Doesn't Cornell have a unique situation where they have two seperate schools under the same name, where one is easier to get into then the other "ivy league" half? I am not clear on the details, at all, but one of my fellow students got into Cornell soley because of football, as I know it was not due to his grades.

Cornell is seven colleges, 4 of which are private, 3 are state schools. Arts & Sciences, Hotel Administration, Architecture, and Engineering are all private colleges. Human Ecology, Agriculture, and ILR (I'm a bad student, I'm not even sure what that stands for) are state schools. For kids from New York, the state schools are much easier to get into

[Mustangs21]

ron is correct, while the ivys dont give athletic scholarships, they do offer need based aid.
the biggest problem for the ivys in recruiting is getting kids that have the GPA and SATs to get in and more importantly stay in. coaches get some leeway in that department, but even if you are mike powell junior and have a C average, you arent getting in
Yes as spenny said, they always have trouble getting the nations top recruits to go their because of academics. Also many recruits choose not to go to Harvard, Denver, etc. because of the academic pressure they will get during their college career. Plus think of it this way, if you could play lacrosse at Harvard or Virginia which would you choose? Virginia DUH!

[Gaib]

Yes as spenny said, they always have trouble getting the nations top recruits to go their because of academics. Also many recruits choose not to go to Harvard, Denver, etc. because of the academic pressure they will get during their college career. Plus think of it this way, if you could play lacrosse at Harvard or Virginia which would you choose? Virginia DUH!

Did you just try to compare the academic pressures at Denver with the pressures at Harvard? As a Cornell student and Mass resident, I can assure you that I really dislike Harvard and think it's a wildly overrated school, but come on. Denver and Harvard are not even close to the same league. Also, how are you going to use that argument to explain top recruits going to a school like Princeton, an absolutely top notch school?

[ohlax51]

I dont see the ivy league declining anytime soon, Princeton may have an off year but they will always be a top ten team, then you have solid teams in Penn,Cornell,Harvard, and Dartmouth. These schools name and prestige is enough to attract recruits, schools like Maryland and Syracuse are good in their own right, but nothing compares to the prestige of a Princeton or Harvard.

[ron_burgundy]

Did you just try to compare the academic pressures at Denver with the pressures at Harvard? As a Cornell student and Mass resident, I can assure you that I really dislike Harvard and think it's a wildly overrated school, but come on. Denver and Harvard are not even close to the same league. Also, how are you going to use that argument to explain top recruits going to a school like Princeton, an absolutely top notch school?

word on the street is that tierney gets whoever he wants into princeton. maybe other ivy league coaches don't have as much influence on admissions.

[Gaib]

word on the street is that tierney gets whoever he wants into princeton. maybe other ivy league coaches don't have as much influence on admissions.

That may be the case now, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't when he first became coach. I'd be very surprised if the admissions office would give much clout to a new coach on a team that had never really achieved anything. But in four years (I think), Tierney won his team a national championship. And this happened in '92, before the "lacrosse boom" where there were enough recruits that you could field a solid team with kids who slipped through the cracks of larger programs.

[PekinSt]

Doesn't Cornell have a unique situation where they have two seperate schools under the same name, where one is easier to get into then the other "ivy league" half? I am not clear on the details, at all, but one of my fellow students got into Cornell soley because of football, as I know it was not due to his grades.
In-state tuition for the local New York state talent pool, that really seems like a very unfair advantage over the other schools in the IVY League. Am I missing something?

[UVAlaxer432]

To bad UVA owns...