Doneger Traded to New Jersey...

[cannonslax624]

The Rochester Rattlers announced today they have traded:

Adam Doneger

Chris Malone

2nd Round Pick (This Year's Draft) (8th Overall)

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to New Jersey, for:

A.J Shannon

1st Round Pick (This Year's Draft) (4th Overall)

3rd Round Pick (16th overall)

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What does everyone think of this? I think the Rattlers are on the winning end of this deal...2 of the first 4 picks this year! Imagine...Tillman and Passavia? That would be insane...Comments? Thoughts? Replies, anyone?

[jmplax31]

No you just don't give away such a big future star like that. Don't get me wrong Shannon is a good player, but that is just not a smart move. Think of the two pointers lost. Plus he played great D. I'm gonna haved to let this one settle, but seems like a bad move to me. (I bet shannon wanted to get closer to Canada)

[shiftylax]

donegar played great D? when did he play D? he was never on the field defensively unless they were caught in transition. He's a shooter, a great shooter, but a shooter. At least shannon can make some plays happen. i think it's a good trade, and they probably made it because the players need to play closer to where they live.

[Longest]

I would personally rather have Doneger over Shannon, so IMHO, NJ benefits most here. But it will take the draft before a final analysis can really be guessed at.

Dan

[powellfan1]

I'm not sure about this deal. I don't know who is better between the 2 players. The 4th draft pick though is what gets me. I think the Rattlers may have done this to get another high pick in the draft, and they wanted NJ's. So, they called them and asked what it would take to get it. The Pride said Adam Doneger. The Rattlers countered with AJ Shannon. Who is the projected 4th pick? Could Boyle fall that low?

[jmplax31]

Originally posted by shiftylax
donegar played great D? when did he play D? he was never on the field defensively unless they were caught in transition. He's a shooter, a great shooter, but a shooter. At least shannon can make some plays happen. i think it's a good trade, and they probably made it because the players need to play closer to where they live.

Wasn't much of a defender in college yes, but he is big so the rattlers turned him in to a defender, an he played very well.

[cannonslax624]

i could definitely see boyle slipping as a possibility...it all depends...will the barrage take boyle? i think with the acquisitions of kuczma and spallina, their defense is all set...and there are NO midfielders (aside from Connor Ford, maybe) who will even be taken close to third overall...maybe they draft a dpole, maybe they draft Boyle...but even so, if Boyle does fall that low, will the Rattlers take him? It's a possibility, have him be the assister and the two powells do the goal scoring (similar to NJ's situation with Hess, Hubbard, Urick)...i dont know tho...surprising deal nonetheless...yeah im startin to change my opinion here...trading the Rookie of the Year away? thats a little much, maybe, isnt it? Now the order stands at: Baltimore, Rochester, Philly, Rochester, Baltimore, Boston... Here's an updated Mock Draft First Round:

1. Mike Powell - Hawks

2. Tillman Johnson - Ratts

3. Ryan Boyle - Philly

4. Chris Passavia - Ratts

5. Ronnie Staines - Hawks

6. Lee Zink - Cannons


Thoughts on this, everyone? Post new Mock Drafts here...First Rounders only though...

[statboy2]

Even if Boyle did fall to Roc at #4, I still think they would take Passavia instead simply because their offense is pretty much set and their defense needs help.

[cannonslax624]

yeah, good point, but its always a possibility...who knows, really? you could make a good case that rochester needs ryan boyle, but probably a better case they need passavia

[Longest]

Originally posted by cannonslax624

1. Mike Powell - Hawks

2. Tillman Johnson - Ratts

3. Ryan Boyle - Philly

4. Chris Passavia - Ratts

5. Ronnie Staines - Hawks

6. Lee Zink - Cannons


Thoughts on this, everyone? Post new Mock Drafts here...First Rounders only though...

1. Mike Powell - Hawks

2. Tillman - Ratts

3. Passavia - Philly

4. Zink - Ratts

5. Staines - Hawks

6. Boyle - Cannons

[jmplax31]

Originally posted by Longest
1. Mike Powell - Hawks

2. Tillman - Ratts

3. Passavia - Philly

4. Zink - Ratts

5. Staines - Hawks

6. Boyle - Cannons

Philly is so jam packed with defenders, highly likly they will take Boyle. There is no strick "feeder" on Philly. Think of it, an attack line of Boyle, Springer, Denehan, with Cromwell in the wings. i'll have my draft up soon.

[Longest]

Then explain why Philly gave up the most points in the league last year and most of the time looked disgusting on D.

Dan

[jmplax31]

becuase they didn't have Cat, Kuczma, and Spallina last year and do this year. There six best long poles are Polacnco, Dorre, Kuczma, Spallina, St. George, and Sweeney. Thats two full lines of guys that could start, and on paper THE best defence in the MLL.

[Longest]

You make some good points. Except that I would stop short of calling them the best on paper defense. Moving in Cat, who has no chemistry with most of those guys, and loading up on talent, doesn't necessarily make me feel secure, even on paper. I think you're right, I didtn' consider Spallina and St. George so they won't be the doormat they have been.
I guess what they really lack is a midde, are there any middies coming out that are actually worth a first round pick, and not just "Let's take Boyle and pray" Conor Ford is a helluva finisher but I don't think he'd make a great middie. Kevin Boland is pretty solid but not spectacular. Maybe they should take my boy Harned and make him play shortstick again. Hajj from G'town is pretty good; 1st round pick, maybe not. Of course, all this is contingent on all these guys WANTING to play professionally.

Dan

[jmplax31]

IMO its the best paper D, Cat is the kind of goalie that just plan leads if he can't pull that together then no one can.

[Longest]

I vote no one but you didn't answer the middie question :-)

Dan

[cannonslax624]

There is not Let's Take Boyle and Pray philosophy to begin with...I dont know what youre talking about...if theres that kind of philosophy with him, then there is with every draft pick...and the only middie i can see worth a first rounder is Ford...and hes not a good value that early...Ford, Hajj, Lindsey are all 2nd round material...the only ones good enough for first round are Boyle, Powell, Tillman, and the three poles (staines, zink, passavia)...so to answer your question, NO, there are no middies worth a first round pick, especially not in the 3rd-4th overall range

[Longest]

You have to pray if you have to make someone into a middie, not that Boyle isn't a solid player b/c he def is. So the question sitll becomes for Philly, do they load up on another pole or another attackman?

Dan

[powellfan1]

I have recently found some new developments in what the Rattlers can do in the draft.
- One is to trade the 2nd and 4th pick to Baltimore and take Mike Powell
I think this is a possibility, but would Baltimore allow this?
What team is Passavia on and is he any good? The Rattlers do have knack for drafting top college defensemen.

[statboy2]

I don't think Rochester would do that trade, and I'm not sure Baltimore would either. Rochester does not need any help at attack, and I know that Rochester fans would like to have all 3 powells, but that would compromise your season.

Passavia is on Maryland and is thought by most to be the best d-man in college.

[Longest]

The top 3 d-men in the country are Passavia (MD), Zink (MD), and Staines (UNC). Making the transition to the pro ranks, Merrill (Georgetown) and Harned (Hop) at LSM are also looked on very highly and could probably play either close D OR short stick mid.

In terms of Rochester, they have on the roster Howley, Glatzel, Mollett, Cougevan, Abrams, and Bliss. Abrams is out for the year, Cougevan has seen little to no playtime, as had Bliss. Howley, Mollett and Glatzel are solid but one more solid to great D-man would help the Ratts a lot.

On the attack side, Casey and Ryan Powell, John Fay, Josh Coffman, and Gewas Schindler are all great attackmen. Taking Mikey, while an attractive theory, might not be as needed as a D-man.


Dan

[WarriorLax22]

Originally posted by Longest
1. Mike Powell - Hawks

2. Tillman - Ratts

3. Passavia - Philly

4. Zink - Ratts

5. Staines - Hawks

6. Boyle - Cannons
you guys aren't giving boyle enough credit and giving it all to tillman johnson. he was pretty bad this year. on GB's, he almost always hit the guy rather than just go for it. in the hopkins game, he got clocked. if it wasn't for kyle dixon, that game would've been lost. powell will be first overall and i think boyle will go second.

[jmplax31]

Originally posted by Longest
The top 3 d-men in the country are Passavia (MD), Zink (MD), and Staines (UNC). Making the transition to the pro ranks, Merrill (Georgetown) and Harned (Hop) at LSM are also looked on very highly and could probably play either close D OR short stick mid.

In terms of Rochester, they have on the roster Howley, Glatzel, Mollett, Cougevan, Abrams, and Bliss. Abrams is out for the year, Cougevan has seen little to no playtime, as had Bliss. Howley, Mollett and Glatzel are solid but one more solid to great D-man would help the Ratts a lot.

On the attack side, Casey and Ryan Powell, John Fay, Josh Coffman, and Gewas Schindler are all great attackmen. Taking Mikey, while an attractive theory, might not be as needed as a D-man.


Dan

Both Casey and Coffman (and mike for that matter) can play middie. So if you shift everyone up, in theory, you could shift people up and draft an attack. Not that they will, but it could be worked out that way.

Rattlers have last four college long poles of the year.
Abrams-00'
Mollett-01'
Glatzel-02'
Howley-03'

Passavia has a great chance at winning that this year so it would be cool if they went for five in a row. I think Rattlers will take Ford, cause he can do attack and middie and has a shot that could help make up for the lose of Doneger.

Besides Rattlers always have the most impressive drafts. With all there picks this year, they will come out very good steals in most round.

[Stopper22]

Originally posted by jmplax31
Both Casey and Coffman (and mike for that matter) can play middie. So if you shift everyone up, in theory, you could shift people up and draft an attack. Not that they will, but it could be worked out that way.

this is very true. Coffman played middie in the all-star gaem last year, he can do it all year if needed. Casey played middie at numerous times last year, also there are reports that John Grant wants to come back late in the year and play. so there is another attack player. So in thery the Rattlers can take any postion. I belive they will take Johnson 2nd tho, for the huge lack of Gaolie we have.

[Longest]

I agree, I think with the lack of Doneger, they need a finisher which would be Ford. Casey can be a helluva middie when he needs to be so excellent points.

Dan

[powellfan1]

If Grant was somehow able to come back, why wouldn't Abrams be able to? They suffered the same injury, but I think Abrams had it about a month before Grant did. Anyway, is Ford a good faceoff man as well? That would solve a lot of problems. If the Rattlers want to take Boyle and Tillman, why not take Boyle at no.2 and Tillman at no.4? If the Rattlers took Tillman at no.2, they have almost no chance of Boyle going to no.4 because the Barrage want him. If the Rattlers draft Boyle first, the Barrage won't take Tillman because they have Cat and another good goalie.

[Longest]

I have never heard of Ford taking a FO.
So let's say Hawks are a lock to take Powell.

What does Rochester need most? Carcaterra has never seemed like the goalie to take them to the next level. If that's true, they should just take Tillman right away. If Carc *is* the man to take them the way, then I agree, take Boyle.

Dan

[jmplax31]

Originally posted by Longest
I have never heard of Ford taking a FO.
So let's say Hawks are a lock to take Powell.

What does Rochester need most? Carcaterra has never seemed like the goalie to take them to the next level. If that's true, they should just take Tillman right away. If Carc *is* the man to take them the way, then I agree, take Boyle.

Dan

Carc is not plating this year. Don't know why but he just left.

[Longest]

Thanks for the info. That means they def need another goalie, either as a backup to Coon or as a starter.

Dan

[shiftylax]

Ford can't do anything but get open and shoot. once again, llike donegar a very important skill, but seriously....ford is like 5'4'' 280 lbs (exagerrated, obviously) I don't even get how he plays D1 much less plays in the MLL. He's got a marketable skill, but he could never ever play middie due to his size and the rattlers are ridiculously loaded at attack anyway. There really aren't that many good middies in this draft class and there sure aren't any GREAT (re starter caliber) middies, either. I think the rattlers will take a pedigree defenseman and boyle; or powell if they can package something together and get him. One thing is for sure, after the first 6 picks, this draft is thin.

[Stopper22]

i see no reason why Rochester wouldnt take Tillman, then either a attackmen or Dman, its a toss up, could really use a middie, however there seems to be none as you all have stateted.

[Longest]

We're wrangling on the other thread, I think Roch could take Boyle with #2, making Philly have to grasp at straws for an attackman, no point in taking Johnson with Cattrano. Then Roch is still clear to take Johnson at #4.

Dan

[Stopper22]

Originally posted by Longest
We're wrangling on the other thread, I think Roch could take Boyle with #2, making Philly have to grasp at straws for an attackman, no point in taking Johnson with Cattrano. Then Roch is still clear to take Johnson at #4.

Dan what if Bridgeport makes a trade tho?

[Longest]

Then we'll re-wrangle :-) I have nothing but time on my hands to talk abou this stuff. What trade do you think they'll make?

Dan

[Stopper22]

Baltimore might make a trade, they also need a goalie, and yuou never knwo how much NJ, and Boston like him.

[powellfan1]

I think its highly unlikely. NJ, Boston, and Bridgeport would all have to trade their pick plus a great player to get the no.1 pick. Powell might be the best rookie pick in MLL history.

[statboy2]

I don't see why Rochester would trade Doneger and then draft for offense in the first round. If they drafted Boyle then they would have to move someone else from attack to middie and Rochester would have been better off just keeping Doneger and their attack intact. Would you rather have Boyle, Shannon, the 16th pick, and an attack at middie or Doneger, the 8th pick, and the attack all playing where they are most comfortable? I'll take option #2.

The Doneger trade only makes sense for Rochester if they draft a d-man because before the trade they had no shot at Passavia or even Zink/Staines if they took Tillman Johnson at #2 overall, where as now they can get both Johnson and Passavia.

[Longest]

Those are excellent points.

Dan

[cannonslax624]

i think longest has a point in the taking boyle with the number 2 overall pick...but i really cant imagine philly sticking with the number 3 pick if boyle is gone..i bet they trade down for a later first rounder and other picks...in terms of trading up, NJ definitely doesnt have the firepower anymore to trade up, almost no high draft picks besides the #8 they acquired in the doneger trade...Boston has the firepower to move up (but who would they take? boyle? or passavia)?...Long Island DEFINITELY doesnt have anything to move up with...Baltimore could possibly work something out to move up...and I think thats pretty much it...If only there was someway Boyle could end up in a Pride uniform...He's the perfect fit

[powellfan1]

The only way for Baltimore to move up is for the Rattlers to trade the 2 and 4 picks. Powell is a guarantee for any team at no.1., unless he gets hurt.