any news on NLL outdoor [Archive]

Reblax44

05-29-2006, 09:26 PM

Just curious if any new news is out there about the NLL outdoor league?? How divided are these leagues going to be is it going to be that the NLL outdoor league is going to be predominately Canadian players and the MLL Americans?? I have seen that there are NLL guys will play for the NLL outdoor league but not the MLL. Any thoughts I know I am going to get somewhat lambasted by some posts because I am pro MLL but my question is why play for an NLL outdoor league but have no interest in the established league thats there now?? What is the motivation behind the NLL outdoor league?? Is it money, ego, what is it?? And again before you go hammmering me for being pro MLL, I am a NLL fan for the indoor game and remember it took the NLL 20 years to get to this point and the MLL is only an infant compared to the NLL.

Wubbie

05-29-2006, 09:37 PM

MLL = Warrior only equipment...

I'd guess it has to do something with that, or the fact that most of the NLL players probably love the current ownership.

Reblax44

05-29-2006, 09:45 PM

Yeah but NLL now means only RBK or you tape over it like they do in the MLL. The Mamoth/Bandits game had RBK hockey ads, the MLL has Warrior ads.

slinkyspine

05-29-2006, 10:29 PM

Yeah, theres a difference.

Tape over the label, in the NLL they are fine with it

Tape over the labels with MLL you will curb stomped and have Warrior equipment arrive the next day...

stegmakk

05-29-2006, 11:31 PM

I think they are still exploring options and details more...
It isn't dead, but at the same time they don't want to rush things...
They want to put out a good product, which I believe they will...eventually

boxlaxman

05-30-2006, 11:58 AM

Would the NLL players give up MSL to play outdoor??

RockStar

05-30-2006, 03:44 PM

Would the NLL players give up MSL to play outdoor??

Depends on where the teams are and how much they're paying. (Hmmmm, would be competing with Mann/Minto cups.....guess it also depends if the NLL spends more than like $40 on the championship trophy for the summer league.......the current champions cup looks like a tin cup mounted on Walmart furniture scraps!)

Players might be tempted by higher paycheques in NLL summerball, but then again, they might not.....Fact is, I'm not sure you'd convince guys to fly cross-continent every summer weekend for the same kind of peanuts the NLL is currently paying. Especially when they do it all winter. You'll convince some, but not all of the ringers.

As it is, the top tier players can make halfway decent coin playing Ontario MSL or WLA. There's also the bonus that the farthest road trip for a game is a few hours by car and in the same time zone. There's a further bonus that MSL often gives them their weekends off (Brodie Merrill and some of the other Team Canada types are playing in both MSL and MLL because of this flexibility).

RedBird1

05-31-2006, 12:20 AM

RockStar

05-31-2006, 05:42 AM

Dont quote me exactly on these numbers [theyre something like this] but I read in InsideLacrosse today in their NLL polls that;

54% of NLL players would play in the NLL field league
meanwhile only 14% would play in the MLL
I take those numbers with a grain of salt.

54%/14% said they would play.

They didn't say they would play:
-for a team three time zones away on the other side of the country
-for a paycheque that isn't worth the time away from your family when you're already playing all winter.

We'll see.

RamLacrosse

05-31-2006, 09:29 AM

i think the NLL outdoor should merge with MLL like Brian Shanahan said. It would make things some much more harmonius

WHEELAX2

05-31-2006, 09:39 AM

Well, the current NLL is a different sport than the MLL..

Field lacrosse is much different than Box lacrosse...

the majority of NLL players are not Field players, and the majority of MLL players are not box players..

^^ just facts to keep in mind.

stegmakk

05-31-2006, 09:42 AM

i think the NLL outdoor should merge with MLL like Brian Shanahan said. It would make things some much more harmonius
Not gonna happen.
Each has their own view of how things should be done. And now both have to worry about Brine's "minor league lacrosse" league which supposedly will be set to go in 2007...while not direct competition because they would not be pros but college guys, IF there are teams in the same cities, it might steal some fans away...

perfektspace

05-31-2006, 10:02 AM

Brine's "minor league lacrosse" league which supposedly will be set to go in 2007.

I hadn't heard about this. Is it box or field?

stegmakk

05-31-2006, 10:20 AM

I hadn't heard about this. Is it box or field?
It will be field.
It will be for CURRENT COLLEGE players...a chance to showcase as well as hone their skills during the offseason...
Not a bad idea for a business, as the player salaries will be $0 for each team (not allowed to pay college players)...

for more info: http://www.minorleaguelacrosse.com/

LaxAttackman28

05-31-2006, 11:12 AM

hold the phone! i thought nll was ONLY indoor and the mll was ONLY outdoor, whats goin on

stegmakk

05-31-2006, 11:17 AM

hold the phone! i thought nll was ONLY indoor and the mll was ONLY outdoor, whats goin on
That is how it is currently.

However...the NLL has made statements it is interested and is thinking about starting an outdoor league.

RedBird1

05-31-2006, 01:43 PM

If only the NLL had enough money to buy out the MLL. Becuase a merger would be great, but aint gonna happen any time soon. It would be much easier to work with something already somewhat established.

spenny

05-31-2006, 01:51 PM

no, the MLLs structure is flawed. the same structure almost killed the NLL.
starting a new league with the NLLs current structure is much smarter and will lead to a healthier league

mattlax743

05-31-2006, 02:56 PM

well they need to work there problems out and merge, before they destroy professional lacrosse by trying to compete with each other over this small market

stegmakk

05-31-2006, 03:01 PM

if they could merge nicely that would be great...however i dont see it happening...
the leagues have basically ignored each other even though they have some teams in the same locations...rather than help each other out they ignore each other's existence...
the managing styles seem to mix like water and oil when you compare one versus the other...
i just do not see merging as an actual probable outcome...at all...im not trying to play sides in this debate...just saying they are worlds apart...
either they will both try to survive and kill each other...or one will be forced to give in...

RockStar

05-31-2006, 03:29 PM

well they need to work there problems out and merge, before they destroy professional lacrosse by trying to compete with each other over this small market

No danger of destroying "professional lacrosse" with this nonsense. I'm fairly confident NLL's indoor league will survive any fallout from the battle for field lacrosse supremacy.

(Thing is, the form it survives in might be a small 6 to 8 team regional league centred in the Northeast.)

gctales

05-31-2006, 04:22 PM

I wouldn't be too surprised if some form of buyout from someone occured. Whether investors from the NLL or soemone else.

You don't see Body By Jake's name all over everything anymore.... Just food for thought.

Reblax44

06-01-2006, 05:38 PM

No danger of destroying "professional lacrosse" with this nonsense. I'm fairly confident NLL's indoor league will survive any fallout from the battle for field lacrosse supremacy.

(Thing is, the form it survives in might be a small 6 to 8 team regional league centred in the Northeast.)

The Northeast??? What about the Mamoth??? The NLL hasn't been able to keep teams in Maryland area, or New York(still havent heard anything on that franchise) or Boston(Still defunct) the only team that survived the original Eagle League was the Philadelphia Wings. Buffalo does well and so does Toronto but your bread and butter for the league is the west.

As for a merger never going to happen. Jake and Warrior could take a cue from the NLL and get say NFL franchises behind them like the NLL did with the NHL. The MLL kind of did that with the new Denver Outlaws I understand Pat Bowlen has a stake but there has to be more of that and less micro managing from the MLL league office. Its good to start a league out like that but they need to bring in new blood.

Laxer1241

06-01-2006, 05:59 PM

slinkyspine

06-01-2006, 06:47 PM

Reblax44

06-01-2006, 08:13 PM

The other thing to think about is Pat Bowlen putting his organazation the Denver Broncos behind the Denver Outlaws. Do you think the Broncos are going to invest in something thats not going to be around?? What happens if the Bowlens get other NFL franchises to buy in say I dont know put a franchise in Dallas and get maybe Jerry Jones behind it just a thought.
I am sorry NLL people and I know I am going to infuriate some of you but it did take 20 years for the league to get where it is and theres no word on where the #1 market New York Saints are playing, they just got into Chicago starting next season and the Anaheim/LA franchise hasn't done so well. I don't count Baltimore because we all know that that area is a field lacrosse area they never did well there with the exception of the first couple of years but thats because they had local guys like Jimmy Beardmore playing for them. The Washington Power didnt even do well when the Gait Bros were playing there.
I think if Jake and David Gross are smart they will align themselves with guys like Bowlen and the NFL.

Laxer1241

06-01-2006, 08:15 PM

Reebok doesn't have the money to buy New Balance
Thats why I said it was unethical but it would be sweet.

RockStar

06-01-2006, 10:35 PM

Reebok doesn't have the money to buy New Balance
You don't think?

I think NB would be chump change to Reebok.....they and Nike are the only real big boys left in this game.

VTLaxFan

06-02-2006, 09:32 AM

I think NLL could get reebok to buy out warrior then with no sponsorship for the MLL they will crash in debts and then the NLL could buyout the current MLL teams and make it to an outdoor league. VERY unethical and probably never gonna happen but you never know what fait will bring.
Great Idea! I think Jake What's-his-face is an idiot for having the President of Warrior as an executive. RBK defintely has more money than Warrior. RBK spans mulitple sports while Warrior has only one.

slinkyspine

06-02-2006, 05:24 PM

You don't think?

I think NB would be chump change to Reebok.....they and Nike are the only real big boys left in this game.
Well, I guess I forgot somethings.

Addidas/RBK

Yes, I retract statement, they could eaisly destroy NB, Mizuno and STX in one fowl swoop if they felt like it.

radman

06-05-2006, 10:57 AM

RBK is really Adidas. Adidas is on money market machine level of Nike.

In terms of players there will be a lot of high calibre post collegiate players willing to make a few hundred bucks a game..

Plus there are plenty of good lax players who decided not to play or couldnt play inthe MLL. If your a young lax player and play div I level or a really good d III or D II player or your some super athlete whose played club level lax, there's seem to be more opportunities to play lax and get paid.

Well Im not saying like a Major League baseball or NFL cotnract, but at least you can get paid.

WHEELAX2

06-05-2006, 11:29 AM

Great Idea! I think Jake What's-his-face is an idiot for having the President of Warrior as an executive. RBK defintely has more money than Warrior. RBK spans mulitple sports while Warrior has only one.

hmm.. who owns warrrrrrior??

oh that's right.. NEW BALANCE they have a few dollars...

warrior also makes hockey gear..

Reblax44

07-01-2006, 08:17 PM

Now I have heard that the MLL is talking to the owners of the Dallas Stars/Texas Rangers in Dallas and the Seattle Seahawks ownership group in Seattle hey maybe Jake is looking at what the NLL did with their deals and is working that way also is it true that Steve Donner owns teams in both the NLL and MLL in Rochester that has to be something that is really a sticky situation in both boardrooms. I saw here at IL that Gary Gait is going to show off his new idea of NLL outdoor at Vail this year.
I know he is the greatest lacrosse player ever and his influence speaks volumes and I know I am going to get pummeled for saying this but the league who gets the Powells and guys like Kyle Harrison and is going to control the outdoor game. Gary is a factor but not like he was when he forced the MILL to the now improved NLL the kids now know the Powells and the Harrisons and Wards of the world like we used to know the Gaits and Marechek in our era thats who they will follow so whoever gets the best players coming out of college is going to control the outdoor game. The indoor league gets its players primarily from the Jr's system in Canada, not many kids in the US know those players.

BClax17

07-01-2006, 09:59 PM

the league who gets the Powells and guys like Kyle Harrison and is going to control the outdoor game.
Very true.
but aren't the Powells sponsered by Brine so they would want to go to the O-NLL and show off their own equipment. That is of course if the O-NLL lets players use their own non-Warrior equipment instead of whatever god-awful thing Reebok is planning on making.

VTLaxFan

07-03-2006, 07:25 AM

I think that NLL outdoor would be great. THe NLL would one of the only leagues that has two styles of the same sport.

RockStar

07-03-2006, 08:08 AM

Yeah, theres a difference.

Tape over the label, in the NLL they are fine with it

Tape over the labels with MLL you will curb stomped and have Warrior equipment arrive the next day...

Missed this post on the first read through this thread.

I remember a story from a couple summers ago - some poor Rattler (Gewas Schindler?) was caught using a non-Warrior shaft and penalized. Funny thing was, he'd busted all (three?) of the Warrior shafts he had earlier that day, and had just slapped his Warrior head on the only shaft he had handy!

slinkyspine

07-03-2006, 10:17 AM

Missed this post on the first read through this thread.

I remember a story from a couple summers ago - some poor Rattler (Gewas Schindler?) was caught using a non-Warrior shaft and penalized. Funny thing was, he'd busted all (three?) of the Warrior shafts he had earlier that day, and had just slapped his Warrior head on the only shaft he had handy!
Yeah I heard about that too.

That's what I mean though, if you do that in the NLL you probably will be able to play until your new shafts arrive.

newbielaxer

09-03-2006, 05:50 PM

I think as a Canadian that we really should push hard for a pro-outdoor league
I think the experience for the players would be excellant (think more World Champs) Besides the seasons are short enough that the guys could play in both leagues!!!!!

Hooligan

09-03-2006, 11:15 PM

The NLL bravado costs them another endeavor. Don't count on hearing about this in the near future.

RockStar

09-04-2006, 09:13 PM

The NLL bravado costs them another endeavor. Don't count on hearing about this in the near future.
NLL SuX. :agree:

I didn't rule out the thought that they'd put something together just to try to destroy the MLL. However, right from the first rumours, I figured a successful NLL Outdoor league was a pipe dream at best, and at worst, a risk that could sink much of the NLL.

Hooligan

09-04-2006, 09:37 PM

Lets put it this way...

If I busted through your door tonight, put half of what your house is worth in front of you, and told you to get the (blank) out, and you were holding a loaded mac-10 in your hand, would you get up and run, or would you stand up, point the gun at me, and tell me to go back to where I came from before you pumped me full of bullets?

I don't think Jake Steinfeld is even remotely looking to sell the MLL now.

newbielaxer

09-05-2006, 07:51 PM

ok no problem you guys really don't like the nll

well fine expand into Canada so we can watch some pro field here in canada

I just want to be able to see some pro field, guys dont take it the wrong way please i dont mean for the nll to destroy the mll not my intent at all

Hooligan

09-05-2006, 08:12 PM

I love when people read into posts...they're usually completely wrong. I don't hate the NLL. In fact, its the closest thing to box that I get around here (Philly), and I love box.

But people have to face the facts...there's a reason why the Arena Football League has surpassed everything the NLL has, and it has nothing to do with football. It has a lot to do with how the leagues are run. The head brass in the NLL have issues with their conduct in communicating with the outside world. What I'm saying is that they have a ton of great ideas, that are usually burried under the load of BS they drop on people when they communicate. Its time they calm themselves down, and stop pushing their weight around....the NLL isn't exactly a "sumo-wrestler", its more of a featherweight.

But you're right, field should expand up to Canada, especially after the victory in the world championships.

The MLL and NLL rivalry is more heated than it ever has been, and frankly, it should be a good thing for both leagues...they were getting a bit stagnant. Its time the MLL plays on the NLL's turf.

Reblax44

09-06-2006, 08:07 AM

Hooligan knowing some people who were part of the MLL in the begining I know they didnt want the debockery that happened when they started that Pro league back in the late 80's and it folded mid season and the "owners" ran away with all the profits. The "advisors" let Jake and his people know that that was a serious blow to the game. What people don't remember is there was already great club lacrosse going on anyway. Boston, New York, Baltimore, Pennsylvania, even places like Denver and California the "grandfathers" to the MLL were playing in great club leagues. I remember going and seeing guys like LoCasio, Finneran, Billy Daye, playing for LI lacrosse Club, Mt Washington, MAB, before there was even a MLL and those guys were preceded by guys who played in those leagues even before the NLL/MILL.
Similar to the guys in Canada having their Minto cup the guys in the states had that club league. Because of the rise of kids and high school teams in the last 20 years and also the fact that there is now 21 nations who have lacrosse federations people are seeing a "buisness" opportunity. Think about it back in the early 80's when I picked up my first stick it was a Brine why because I live in Ma. and Brine is less than a half hour from my house, the only other competition was STX. Now look at whats happened Rebok's bought into it and so has New Balance why because there is money there if it were the "old way" with all those old "club" leagues no one but local lacrosse companies would want sponsorship of equiptment or clothing.
The thing that does distress me is the fact that mens D1 lacrosse with all the boom in all these kids coming out for lacrosse and playing has is crawling at a snails pace as far as D1 varsity programs. I know its for another thread but I was looking at a March of 97 Lacrosse Magazine article about Michigan State and University of New Hampshire getting rid of their varsity lacrosse programs, with all the "new" players these days you would have thought we would have gotten some of those programs back plus new ones.

gctales

09-06-2006, 11:57 AM

One of the other things many people forget is that there are, effectively, (for lack of a better term) semi-pro field groups that many of the pros (and pro-caliber players) have and continue to played on which existed rpior to the MLL... teams like the crease monkeys, team toyota, team heineken, and otherswhich have participated in many field tournaments in OC, MD, New Orleans, Hawaii, and elsewhere.

While these tournaments don't draw much attention, outside of the attendees, they do potentially draw players away from the league....

Hooligan

09-06-2006, 08:15 PM

As a big fan of box lacrosse, I'd love to see the OLA, WLA, MSL, etc... get more exposure. I agree with what everyone is saying both the MLL and NLL are hybrid versions of the actual sports. Neither pro league has great upper management morals, and they're all in it to make a quick buck. This is why pro lacrosse flounders at the bottom of the sports barrel, while other alternative sports like the AFL and even MLS are rising towards the top. Its horrible that pro lacrosse hasn't righted the ship in 20 years. Heck, it was on the wrong course 30 years ago with the original NLL.

Someone needs to step up and correct the course. The club teams you've mentioned along with the Canadian leagues all have it right....maybe thats where we have to start.

dougm

09-07-2006, 11:38 AM

its better to keep deals silent until they are consumated. negotiating in public rarely works.

rider

09-07-2006, 04:21 PM

I remember a foreign poster a while back wonder why the hell our national lacrosse federation doesn't just run a league system, like what sports leagues in other countries do and what sports leagues in this country doesn't. That way, the teams themselves are out to make a profit but the league itself isn't.

Ex-Laxer

09-08-2006, 11:50 PM

It will be field.
It will be for CURRENT COLLEGE players...a chance to showcase as well as hone their skills during the offseason...
Not a bad idea for a business, as the player salaries will be $0 for each team (not allowed to pay college players)...

for more info: http://www.minorleaguelacrosse.com/

I notice that the website has slots for team names and rosters, but nuttin' in 'em. Won't be worthwhile checking that for another 7 months or so. :fart: