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piglet
08-02-2006, 10:19 PM
The Aussie team can hold their heads up high. It was a great performance to come away third in the world. The Aussie's were the fittest and fastest at the Games & it was mainly our shhoting that let us down

Although we did not win we learn't some lessons. I have borrowed an email from a friend to elaborate where we can go from here.

G'day All,

For those of you who were not there [London Ontario] I'm sure you had had a chance to hear about the 2006 world games, talk to some players, spectators and others. Thought I would give you guys some thoughts and observations to think about and hear some of your feedback at the same time. Got to love email, no one can hide.

If you go to shop to buy a loaf of bread which costs $1.50 and you only have $1.37, then you are short. .13 cents short. It does not matter how much you wish you had enough money, or if the loaf of bread was cheaper you are still short. Numbers don't lie.

We had the most shots out of the blue division 350 and the most saves 113. We played one more game than the US but still had same shot count as them and more saves. We shot 32% they shot 38% and Canada almost 40%. We were the second highest team for fouls, 49 mins, Canada 55 mins. US, high 30's. We had
18-23 players score goals [not a bad stat], the Canadians had 20-23 goal scorers [even better one] and the US had 16-23 players score goals. Each game we had between 6-10 different players go to the cage each quarter. We had between 8-10 different point scores each game. Our man-up and man down opportunities were no better or worse than Canada's but much better than the US's.

Australia shot 113 goals 47 Assists, Canada 129 goals 84 Assists, the US 123 goals 72 Assists. Australia and Canada played one more game than the US.

We had 213 ground balls Canada, 215 and the US 151. Face offs we held our own but were called for false starts at crucial times during crucial games-as were other countries. After looking at the tapes we got the bad end of the stick so many times. Question: Are these stats the best that Australia has ever produced can anyone help out and let me know?

The website that has this information is called www.pointstreak.com

The one stat that killed us was our shot percentage. The conversion. Our guys had the most shots out of the big three, they were given plays and opportunities to put themselves in scoring positions which they executed as well as, if not better than, the US and Canada but shot poorly. Once the ball leaves the stick the coaches and team mates have no control over it [the ball].

This percentage problem needs to be addressed at our lowest levels-juniors-because it is very evident that bad habits hang around a life time. After talking with a lot of Aussies it appears that very little talk or emphasis is directed towards shot percentages. For those of you who do not know the industry standard the magic number is 33% or better. But not lower than 33% you can't win if you shoot below 33%. Numbers don't lie.

I was amazed by a comment by an Aussie spectator/official when I asked him if there is coaching information directed/forwarded to coaches [all levels] in Australia that speaks about shot percentages. His answer was no, and we [Aussies] should shoot as high as possible, he went on to say. I had to bite my tongue. He also added that percentages would differ between pro's, high schools, college club and so on. My tongue is very, very, very sore.

Do you have score sheets that includes shots, shots on goal and saves? Think you can do without one? If you think so then write back to me and explain why, fair enough?

When you do implement this new score sheet [if you already have not] make sure you direct your coaches [all levels all grades] to address their respective percentages to their respective teams pre-game after each quarter and post game. Give our kids the tools they need to become snipers. Good shooters. I heard a rumor that there were plenty of snipers back in Australia, how come they were not on the team?

Equally amazing was the refereeing. Numbers don't lie and neither do the tapes. 90% of the 2006 world lacrosse games ref's were completely out of their league, and too no fault of their own. They [90%] just don't have no where near enough experience at the elite level. Let's face how many of our ref's, Britt's, kiwi's, pom's German's etc. have been involved in DOT games, OT games, games decided in the last 4 seconds, games with more then 45,000 spectators and who do it for a living and ref other pro sports? Let me know what you find out.

The best story I heard was a ref asked the two face off guys to replace themselves with two new guys from their respective benches. The players explained to the ref that only their coaches can have them replaced. The ref continued to proceed with the game. Don't think that guy should be there next time.

dougm
08-03-2006, 08:03 AM
when you consider how limited the number of aussies exposed to college field lacrosse, i find their performance outstanding. green & mundorf are one tough combo to mark out of any game. the ground ball count speaks to the overall toughness w/ guys like inge and tokahura, if you give them an inch, they'll take a yard.

CanuckLax
08-03-2006, 08:04 AM
Shooting % is a rather ambiguous stat that has way too many variables to be of value on it's own. It's just a number, that along with MANY other numbers may tell you a story.

In your long post you has stated that 1) Aussie lead the tourney in shots and 2) Canada and US outscored them so you out those two together and determined that your guys have bad technique when shooting?

Here's just a few whatifs that make your hypothisis moot....

1) Where are they taking the shots from? Are they on the doorstep like Canadians and therefore missing REALLY close or are they shooting bombs from the outside? If they are outside, then your problem is your offence in general, you can't penetrate....

2) Are shots clean or is the D getting sticks/bodies on your shooters throwing them off? If you don't have the ball movement to get open you can't blame the technical aspects of the shot.

3) Are shots coming from the "prime scoring area" out front, or from the sides in weird angles. If so not shotting technique but inability to beat quality defense.

4) Are you snipers getting shots off on their strongs hands are are defenses forcing them weak side for less % shots? Again, if so it's not about shotting technique, you have other issues.

5) Is your offense working their possessions, running plays for quality opportunities or were they rushing shots/panicking?

There are so many reasons why your shots aren't finding mesh that it's overly simplistic to say as a nation you're not developing shooters.

You're right, stats don't lie, but the don't tell the whole story either. In your first sentance you all mention that you lead the tourney in saves? is that good, some might say you goalies are therefore brilliant, others may say your defense sucked to allow so many shots. The bottom line is you can make the numbers tell any tale you wish.

mrg16
08-03-2006, 10:59 PM
A few comments from my perspective of the Worlds and WA club lax....

Australias shooting from the "doorstep" was noticably poor in a few games. Stiglich, Stiglich and Ardossi had plenty of opportunities as a result of our offensive setup and penetration. Heaps of shots, less than average finishing.

On the other hand, Green and Mundorf scored some pretty amazing goals on low % shots (outside of the "prime scoring area") which probably ended up boosting our shooting % if anything.

However I think the most noticable difference between us and CAN/US is our ability to shoot on the run (across the body). Delfs and Whiteman had some nice goals dodging from up top, but we have nobody that can shoot like Jalbert or even Harrison. My explanation - we do not spend enough time (at least in WA?) doing dedicated shooting drills, especially at the ~U17 level.

To bring this back to domestic club lax - stats are very rarely recorded even at the D1 level. However my father has been taking D1 stats for my club this year, and our highest % to date is 27.9%. We are in 4th spot. Enough said.

Back to the Aussies - they were noticably the best conditioned team in the top division as Piglet mentioned, and this became a greater factor as the week wore on.....a few more games and I think a win over the US or Canada could have been a possibility.

endoftheline
08-04-2006, 12:56 AM
maybe too much emphasis was placed on fitness and as a result other things suffered?

cannon
08-04-2006, 01:28 AM
maybe too much emphasis was placed on fitness and as a result other things suffered?

no...one of the reasons we can run with the US and Canada is our fitness over the course of a championships. A less fit Aussie team would be destroyed.

cannon
08-04-2006, 01:31 AM
As an example of what Griffo said. Watch the Aussie game highlights on e-lacrosse and see how many times someone like Ryan Garnsworthy chases down a man into D and gets well in front of him to stop the fast break.

relaxme
08-04-2006, 10:05 AM
Shooting % is a rather ambiguous stat that has way too many variables to be of value on it's own. It's just a number, that along with MANY other numbers may tell you a story.

In your long post you has stated that 1) Aussie lead the tourney in shots and 2) Canada and US outscored them so you out those two together and determined that your guys have bad technique when shooting?

Here's just a few whatifs that make your hypothisis moot....

1) Where are they taking the shots from? Are they on the doorstep like Canadians and therefore missing REALLY close or are they shooting bombs from the outside? If they are outside, then your problem is your offence in general, you can't penetrate....

2) Are shots clean or is the D getting sticks/bodies on your shooters throwing them off? If you don't have the ball movement to get open you can't blame the technical aspects of the shot.

3) Are shots coming from the "prime scoring area" out front, or from the sides in weird angles. If so not shotting technique but inability to beat quality defense.

4) Are you snipers getting shots off on their strongs hands are are defenses forcing them weak side for less % shots? Again, if so it's not about shotting technique, you have other issues.

5) Is your offense working their possessions, running plays for quality opportunities or were they rushing shots/panicking?

There are so many reasons why your shots aren't finding mesh that it's overly simplistic to say as a nation you're not developing shooters.

You're right, stats don't lie, but the don't tell the whole story either. In your first sentance you all mention that you lead the tourney in saves? is that good, some might say you goalies are therefore brilliant, others may say your defense sucked to allow so many shots. The bottom line is you can make the numbers tell any tale you wish.
Good insight on % and "what if's" but I think you missed the point..numbers don't lie, and yes people will manipulate them [numbers] to serve their purpose. How many people say they are 21 [to get into a bar] when they are only 19. You are still only 19, no matter how many "what if's"

I would be interested to hear your take on ground balls. Should someone be given a stat of a GB if it [ball] rolls into his or her stick, if they were on thier weak hand, no one near them to contest them, if they are dominating the game and any other what if you want to throw in there? Numbers are numbers.

I think the message from piglet is that shooting appears to be a problem in Australian lacrosse and that could be corrected by taking time to develop drills to enhance that skill [shooting ]

UKLaxFan
08-04-2006, 11:27 AM
I think stats are very important and can highlight trends that you may miss when just watching the game.

Getting to a point where Shooting % is available for coaches at State League standard would be a plus.

I agree with Canucklax though on it can be an over simplification, numbers don't lie but the reason behind the lower Shot % is what's important.

I watched most of the Aussie games at World Cup and their speed & fitness served them well. They played a good hard working team game and never backed down in attack or defence.

To say they were the fittest or fastest doesn't do credit to the other Nations. Canada had good speed in midfield and defence, Billy Dee Smith, Andy Turner, Brodie Merrill, Steve Toll, Taylor Wray.

Aussies were fit but it didn't make the difference when USA & Canada are also fit.

IMHO the difference was stick skills...

Canada had the Box skills to handle the ball in traffic and finish inside with very little space. Grant Jr, Zywicki, Gait all lit up the score boards but also created shots for others.

USA had Powells, Jalbert, who could initiate attacks and Urick & Walters who could stick it. Their midfield wasn't as dominant as previous World Games which for me why they lost.

Australia just didn't have the "Deal Breakers" the initiators who had that something extra.

Box Lacrosse would have helped a lot of the Aussies so they could get used to fighting for space and hitting a spot on finishing, not just technique but deception as well.

The Aussies can definitely hold their heads up high for the way they performed but the numbers don't lie. They came 4th by beating an Iroquois team who had beaten them in Round Robin play.

shooter
08-04-2006, 09:22 PM
They came 4th by beating an Iroquois team who had beaten them in Round Robin play.

Should read:

"They came 3rd by soundly beating an Iroquois team who had barely beaten them in Round Robin play."

Did Canada come second by beating an American team that had beaten THEM in round robin play?

relaxme
08-05-2006, 11:20 AM
have you guys tried throwing in front of a dress mirror? [without the ball of course] this way you will be able to see your mechanics of either hand and make adjustments to grip and wrist action. also you can make moves in front of the mirror to see how much of your stick is available for the defense to see or check. after you are comfortable with this try shooting [without the ball ] between the door jams-open door-this is a good inside excerise to keep your hands and arms in close while maintaining good follow through.....let's see if we can get your U17's over 33% with this simple excersise

12345
09-16-2006, 12:50 AM
To bring this back to domestic club lax - stats are very rarely recorded even at the D1 level. However my father has been taking D1 stats for my club this year, and our highest % to date is 27.9%. We are in 4th spot. Enough said.

Remember Gareth Allen is on our team though... we could be around 90% without him =p

pumba
09-16-2006, 07:53 PM
I heard a rumor that there were plenty of snipers back in Australia, how come they were not on the team?

Look from playing and watching the game week in week out their are many many sniper available in australia. But the way i see the game or coaching work in australia. You have your different players. You have your player with a great outside shot, but then they will be lacking in other areas say dodging. Then you have a dodger who cant hit an outside shot.

Their is not for everyone. But i think what is happening. Players are comming to play one type of game and not being able to adapt to a wider range of playing skills.

UKLaxFan
09-17-2006, 07:13 AM
You have your player with a great outside shot, but then they will be lacking in other areas say dodging. Then you have a dodger who cant hit an outside shot. This is similar to problem with lax in UK.
The level of competition isn't high enough to force players to improve & have an all round game if they want to succeed.

It is possible to have success, win games and score goals by being good at one area of the game. A one trick pony, but when you step up a level to Interntional Level you have to be able to compete with all aspects of the game, as otherwise you get found out very quickly.

pumba
09-18-2006, 05:50 AM
Yeah thats what i see happening hear well from my point of view.