Harvard Lacrosse

[westsidebeefer]

Hey, I've lived in the suburbs of boston my whole life and never thought of Harvard as a good athletic school....but i noticed that they are in Division 1 lax ( and D1 for all other sports)......are the devisions done by size of school or how good the team is? and how is their lax team?

[raykessler]

division is for all intents and purposes by size of school, but their also in the ivy league, which im pretty sure is D1 for all sports. They are a good team, but their not a top D1 team and in the ivy league they usually get dominated by Cornell and Princeton and mostly Dartmouth. Recently Yale and Harvard have had the worst teams in the ivy leage. They had a better team back in the day.

[BLUEJAYSFAN9]

there lax team is descent

[spenny]

harvard has a great athletic tradition. i dont know if its true anymore, but harvard used to have the highest percentage of athletes of any D1 school in the nation (meaning that they had the most student athletes of any school, as a percentage of the number of students going there)

harvard and all the other Ivys are D1-AA for football, and D1 for all their other sports

[ron_burgundy]

harvard isnt that bad at lacrosse, they made the playoffs this year

[thechosenone]

Harvard was in the NCAA tournament this year although it is debatable that they didn't belong there.

Also, I went to the Harvard v. Princeton game this year and it was a back and forth game with Princeton winning like 14-10 I think. So yes, they do have a good team and are a good athletic school.

[mcourtne]

division is for all intents and purposes by size of school, but their also in the ivy league, which im pretty sure is D1 for all sports. They are a good team, but their not a top D1 team and in the ivy league they usually get dominated by Cornell and Princeton and mostly Dartmouth. Recently Yale and Harvard have had the worst teams in the ivy leage. They had a better team back in the day.

Their lacrosse team was very good last year and they made it into the NCAA tournament last may. There were some who didn't think they should have gotten in. There were a lot of teams competing for the last spot and they all lost their final game. The committee gave Harvard the spot.

[Liblax44]

there getting a great player this year in recruits in jason duboe outta illinois last i heard he was a blue chipper and he was the offenseive mvp at topstar last year

[Melax]

Also an attack man from canada called Jesse Fehr who will be turning some heads.

[kylax09]

yeah harvard is up and coming. a couple of pretty good players. im a good friend of brian mahler a now senior middie for them. they made the playoffs this year but got crushed first round vs syracuse. its defenitly worth going in for some games.

[Lacr0sse]

Just because Harvard wasn't in the Big four, or had a lot of All-Americans doesn't mean their 06 lacrosse team, did terrible.

[Pitibear]

just found this thread, reminded me of an observation:

just a few years ago, Harvard's hockey team won the NCAA's...a sports illustrated reporter asked one of the players what percentage of the players graduated with their degrees...the player looked at him funny and replied, "Uh, all of 'em, you don't go to Harvard to play hockey."

sort of applied to most of the ivy league, I would think.

The fact that any ivy league school has a decent team in anything is a testament to the dedication of their student athletes, especially with no athletic scholarships?

[Lax101]

just found this thread, reminded me of an observation:

just a few years ago, Harvard's hockey team won the NCAA's...a sports illustrated reporter asked one of the players what percentage of the players graduated with their degrees...the player looked at him funny and replied, "Uh, all of 'em, you don't go to Harvard to play hockey."

sort of applied to most of the ivy league, I would think.

The fact that any ivy league school has a decent team in anything is a testament to the dedication of their student athletes, especially with no athletic scholarships?
The lack of an athletic scholarship does not, and I mean does NOT mean that schools will bend backwards for a desired athlete.

It's fair to say that a vast majority of Ivy League athletes would not have gotten into said school if they had not played that sport. For example, Harvard's former basketball captain went to my school, had a 3.5, 1300 SAT's (out of 1600), had no activities other than basketball, and had won no academic achievement awards-yet he got into Harvard. I don't care who you are-there is NO way a student gets into Harvard with that resume otherwise. A certain track athlete got into Brown from my school. Her grades and SAT scores would have gotten her into a state college (not to demean state colleges) without her EXTREMELY accomplished track background.

Yes, an Ivy League student is there to study, not to compete. But that doesn't mean that the lure of offering top rate academics doesn't entice superstar athletes to join, even if they can't give out scholarships (but they can, however, give out financial aid). Just because a school doesn't give out scholarships doesn't mean that all of their athletes are outright academic scholars in any respect.

[dunitlongpole]

Lax101, do you think lacrosse at Harvard has as much pull for admissions as in your basketball story?

[Riot]

It's fair to say that a vast majority of Ivy League athletes would not have gotten into said school if they had not played that sport. For example, Harvard's former basketball captain went to my school, had a 3.5, 1300 SAT's (out of 1600), had no activities other than basketball, and had won no academic achievement awards-yet he got into Harvard. I don't care who you are-there is NO way a student gets into Harvard with that resume otherwise. A certain track athlete got into Brown from my school. Her grades and SAT scores would have gotten her into a state college (not to demean state colleges) without her EXTREMELY accomplished track background. Yeah, one of my good friends is a huge track star (or cross country.. can't remember) and will probably go to Princeton to compete with them. There's no way she would have even been considered without track.

Lax101, do you think lacrosse at Harvard has as much pull for admissions as in your basketball story?
Don't quote me on this, but I think you'd have to be pretty damn good for Harvard to let you in to play athletics if you had a mediocre GPA and little academic awards.

[Pitibear]

Just because a school doesn't give out scholarships doesn't mean that all of their athletes are outright academic scholars in any respect.

Would I be correct to summarize your analysis as athletes are getting preference over non-athletic scholar applicants?

Could it also be correct that, to some degree, athletic prowess is considered a legitimate factor for matriculation, as long as minimum academic standards are met.

...that consideration of athletic ability is "allowed to compensate" for perhaps less-than-optimum academic credentials, again, as long as minimum academic standards are met.

Would there perhaps be top-end academics that do not get in because of deficiencies in social, community, or athletic endeavor? I think there are, eh?

Bottom line, they all do graduate, eh? I still applaud them.

[Pitibear]

Don't quote me on this, but I think you'd have to be pretty damn good for Harvard to let you in to play athletics if you had a mediocre GPA and little academic awards.

...not trying to argue here, but, since when is 3.5 a mediocre gpa?

[Riot]

...not trying to argue here, but, since when is 3.5 a mediocre gpa?
Are you saying it's low or high? It's not bad, but if you're looking to get into an ivy league.. or even most tier one schools that will basically rule you out.

Apparently unless you're good at sports.

[Pitibear]

Are you saying it's low or high? It's not bad, but if you're looking to get into an ivy league.. or even most tier one schools that will basically rule you out. Apparently unless you're good at sports.

Okay.

I am used to an environment of open admissions at state schools...sorry.

I still think it's pretty darn good, though.

[destructivelax]

Okay.

I am used to an environment of open admissions at state schools...sorry.

I still think it's pretty darn good, though.
its not that good. i dicked off my whole freshman year and i managed a 3.5 now i know freshman year isn't that hard but my school is one of the better public schools because its a charter school and you can't get all a's without pulling some work. But if I can manage all a's by the end of the year this year (i'm a sophmore), i can bring it up to a 4.1. GPA's when sent to colleges are calculated yearly right? like they only use your end of the year grades?

[Pitibear]

its not that good. i dicked off my whole freshman year and i managed a 3.5 now i know freshman year isn't that hard but my school is one of the better public schools because its a charter school and you can't get all a's without pulling some work. But if I can manage all a's by the end of the year this year (i'm a sophmore), i can bring it up to a 4.1. GPA's when sent to colleges are calculated yearly right? like they only use your end of the year grades?

oops...did I goof on this? I mean 3.5, out of a possible 4.0...

[destructivelax]

oops...did I goof on this? I mean 3.5, out of a possible 4.0...
well there's two types of gpa. weighted (when your gpa is inflated because your taking honors courses) and unweighted (what your talking about)

[dunitlongpole]

How does a 3.5 and an 1850 on SAT look for a school like Harvard if I am a really good lacrosse player

[goalieskcickay]

Not good... really not trying to be blunt but unless you have great everything else besides your GPA and SAT, your chances are very slim.

[Lax101]

Not good... really not trying to be blunt but unless you have great everything else besides your GPA and SAT, your chances are very slim.
Beyond slim, to be honest.

Unless you're one of the best imports out of Canada (and have a laundry list of awards and elite teams to back it up with), Ivy Leagues will recruit players at the same level as Syracuse/Hopkins, because they can bait those top players by offering the best education in the world.

Furthermore, a high GPA and SAT scores would make it easier for a college to recruit you (the more likely you'd be an accepted student without athletics makes it much easier). A 3.5 and 1850 are significantly outside of what Harvard would accept otherwise.

[dunitlongpole]

Ok, fair enough, I expected that....

How about at "lower" Ivies like PENN and Cornell... It seems Cornell has a few great Canadian players on their roster...

[shootandfeed]

ive played with jason duboe from harvard, an incoming recruit, and that kid is so fast he is almost fast as brooks or barrow, especially after all the preseason training harvard does

[CardinalPuff]

just found this thread, reminded me of an observation:

just a few years ago, Harvard's hockey team won the NCAA's...a sports illustrated reporter asked one of the players what percentage of the players graduated with their degrees ...the player looked at him funny and replied, "Uh, all of 'em, you don't go to Harvard to play hockey."

sort of applied to most of the ivy league, I would think.

The fact that any ivy league school has a decent team in anything is a testament to the dedication of their student athletes, especially with no athletic scholarships?
methinks graduating without a degree could be the real trick......

[Pitibear]

methinks graduating without a degree could be the real trick......
ya got me...everybody's the grammar police...my oops!

[goalieskcickay]

methinks graduating without a degree could be the real trick......

Wait... it wouldn't make sense in the context, because later the player responds "All of them.", meaning all of them graduated with a degree, not without a degree.

[Lax101]

Ok, fair enough, I expected that....

How about at "lower" Ivies like PENN and Cornell... It seems Cornell has a few great Canadian players on their roster...
Penn and Cornell are more highly competitive than Harvard, so it'll be even harder based on skill. Gradewise, it's a bit easier, but a 3.5 and 1800 is still well short of those schools. You'd probably only be comfortable into Cornell with a 2200 and a 3.7, at least.

[dunitlongpole]

Lax101, Where exactly are you getting your information...2200 and a 3.7 for Cornell is competitive for a normal applicant, so I would make the assumption that it would be at least a bit easier for recruited lax players, especially since lax is a big sport at Cornell...

[BGlacrosse24]

Jesse Jantzen (formerly of my high school) went to Harvard for wrestling and won the NCAA championship. His little brother, Corey, is going to Harvard next year. I think Jesse might compete in the 2008 Olympics in Bejing.

[shootandfeed]

i dont think ivy league gives athletics rides

[Lax101]

Lax101, Where exactly are you getting your information...2200 and a 3.7 for Cornell is competitive for a normal applicant, so I would make the assumption that it would be at least a bit easier for recruited lax players, especially since lax is a big sport at Cornell...
Unless a school is heavily recruiting you and the coach has you on the top of his "hitlist", applying to a school with grades that would fall short of their normal academic standards is a gamble. For example, if your name appeared in IL's Recruiting Issue as a top rising junior, then coaches may be able to make accomedations for you. But in your case, an unknown potential athlete, then the grades you have do not help your case at all. It's always better to have grades that are within the school's academic guidelines anyway. All of these stories about athletes getting huge breaks academically-that's because the coaches dropped their jaws at them at a recruiting tournament and have been pursuing them for months.

[dunitlongpole]

Ok. I must have misunderstood you... thanks for clarifying. I just talked to a friend and he emailed the PENN coach. He said what they look for minimally was a 1200 (old sat) and a B average...

[lilaxgurl23]

Ok. I must have misunderstood you... thanks for clarifying. I just talked to a friend and he emailed the PENN coach. He said what they look for minimally was a 1200 (old sat) and a B average...

I would really, really, consider trying to get at least a 1300 and an A average. Take the challenging courses and work your butt off in school and on the lacrosse field. Getting the minimal requirement is only increasing your chances of being rejected. That, and coaches can usually only have a few players that can be at that level. When in school, treat it as if you were a regular applicant, don't sell yourself short because you thought that being an athlete was good enough. Things change and you might not be a top recruit. I know in plenty of schools kids could be on the team, so long as they got in on their own. Just don't expect that you're going to get the academic pull from the coaches.

[sharpshooterFTW]

Ok, fair enough, I expected that....

How about at "lower" Ivies like PENN and Cornell... It seems Cornell has a few great Canadian players on their roster...

honestly there is no lower ivy league. penn and cornell are equally as hard as a dartmouth and harvard. granted they advritise differently, Harvard is more of a buisness type of place, where Dartmouth is more literary. so it depends.

on another note, with schools like harvard and the rest of the ivy league. top students don't compare to top student athletes. you need something more than your grades, granted a bad gpa, but an amazing athletic record is probably not going to get you in. but the schools are constantly looking for something more, whether you're the next Einstien, or the next Garry Gait or Pele (sp?) they are also looking for room, and the desire for improvment. because if you've had consistant grades in easy subjects, you're far less attractive than consistant grades across the board. lets say you did a required course freshmen and sophmore in HS, and then you stepped it up to an honors course junior and senior, and maintained your grades. that means you're improving, and are bound to keep getting better. and any school is going to challange you with the opertunity to become better.

[LaxMid10]

The academic standards are high for any Ivy league school. The admissions process is much different for athletes at those schools. If the coach says he can get you in, he will get you in eventually. You have to have trust for the coaches. I know that Scott Anderson at Harvard has gotten every player in, over the past decade with each player having various academic credentials. If you are a decent player with great grades, then Harvard may be good for you in terms of academics. Any Ivy league team recruits only the top players in the country. If they are contacting a coach, they should 1. be a great player not a good one and 2. be able to have a legitimate shot at getting in. This isn't to say that an awesome player with mediocre grades cannot get in. It basically comes down to trusting the coach's word.

[Gaib]

Lax101, Where exactly are you getting your information...2200 and a 3.7 for Cornell is competitive for a normal applicant, so I would make the assumption that it would be at least a bit easier for recruited lax players, especially since lax is a big sport at Cornell...

Cornell doesn't have the highest admission standards, and there are ways to circumvent the traditional admissions process. I know the football team has a quota for the number of engineers it needs to take each year; somewhat ironically, potential football players who might be borderline arts&sciences or ag school students can sometimes get in as engineers and then switch schools after admission (switching schools at cornell is pretty easy). Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "lax is a big sport at Cornell" - we do have a very good team but do you mean big in terms of fan base, attendance, and importance to the student body? The only "big" sport at Cornell is hockey. An average lacrosse game will draw a few hundred fans, maybe up to a thousand for a bigger game (senior night, game under the lights versus 'cuse), so there's always plenty of room at Schoelkopf. Dunit, I don't know anything about you (age, ability, etc) but IF you do come to Cornell but don't make varsity, come play club. Figure I'd make my pitch while I'm at it

[dunitlongpole]

I meant "big" as in admissions push... I know the push would not be as big as hockey but it would be higher than other sports...right?

[Lax101]

I meant "big" as in admissions push... I know the push would not be as big as hockey but it would be higher than other sports...right?
It's hard to say. Every coach wants to get the best recruits possible, although the financially lucrative sports (usually football or basketball, and yes, possibly hockey for Cornell) MAY have a little more push or may be a bit more aggressive in terms of recruiting, as seen with the huge amounts of scholarships that they're alotted (although this technically isn't the case with Ivies). Otherwise, it's hard to say if lacrosse gets any more pull, and I don't really think you should be too concerned with that. All coaches have some pull if you're really a player they highly covet. And all coaches have limits for who they can recruit and how they can do it.

In the end, just because you and I play lacrosse doesn't mean that we're more likely to get into Cornell than a prospective gymnast or soccer player.

And I have a random digression relating to high academics and athletes:

Ryan Fitzpatrick was one of Harvard's best football players in decades, and arguably their best quarterback in school history. He was then drafted in the NFL, which is extremely rare for Ivy league athletes (in fact, he's the only Harvard quarterback to ever be drafted). Figuring this, you'd think he must've gotten a huge push into Harvard, right? Not at all.

Fitzpatrick is rumored to have scored a perfect 50 on the Wonderlic test, given to every prospective player hoping to be drafted (for the record, this perfect score is shrouded in controversy, as another report claims he got a 38, still EXTREMELY high, in only 9 out of the 12 minutes allotted). In comparison, Vince Young, named the NFL offensive rookie of the year, is rumored to have scored a 6 (10 indicates literate). The test isn't an amazing test of intelligence, but it does show that Fitzpatrick is a VERY smart kid, and it's likely that his academics were on par with his athletics when he was recruited by Harvard.

[lhslax1990]

i have played with jason duboe in a summer travel league he just came wanting to play somewhere and he is very fast with good stick skills look out for him and they have the greg cohen guy back