THE FACE OFF THREAD!!!

[manup5183]

Are blades a stiffer type of heads that dont warp?

Dude how many times do i need to tell you, they are very flexy and bendy, but they go back to thier normal shape after a faceoff

[FrontierFOGO]

What head would be good for more powerbased moves?

[FrontierFOGO]

because i dont use the plunger at all and other moves designed for flexible heads

[DJ Death]

What head would be good for more powerbased moves?
stiffer heads would be better.

[FrontierFOGO]

What heads specificaaly would be nice stiff ones

[manup5183]

What heads specificaaly would be nice stiff ones

do you want wide, pinched, straight, or offset?

[FrontierFOGO]

I want straight and pinched ones

[chucktownattack]

I want straight and pinched ones

Sniper's and Oz's can be piched. E3's might be your best bet.

[manup5183]

I want straight and pinched ones

Alright I suggest an excalibur. If you want it pinched than you are going to have to pinch it yourself, this will give it a little flex but should still be rigid enough for you.

[FrontierFOGO]

so excaliburs are stiff and well rounded for faceoffs then?

[FrontierFOGO]

Any bigtime players use them?

[lslaxer]

so excaliburs are stiff and well rounded for faceoffs then?
That's what he just said, and yes some face off men use them, but you should really read the posts, and not double post. Good luck.

[DJ Death]

good luck finding them since they're discontinued. i think your best bet would be to get a mohawk mission extreme. those are very very stiff and are straight. you might have to pinch it to meet your needs, though. if you don't want to subject your head to heat that would make it lose some of its rigidity, then you'll have to clamp it and leave it like that for oh about a couple months. there's no way to pinch a head within a reasonable time frame without subjecting it to some kind of heat.

[shakerlax222225]

i would say an excalibur and pinch it, that may make it flexy. or if you can deal with an offset head get an e3, they are stiff as bricks

edit: every time i look at this thread it makes me want to face off really bad

[FrontierFOGO]

so excalibur and then i can pinch it would be a solid powermove based head?

[FrontierFOGO]

who here has used or is using a gait torque? i would like to know about its stiffness and other info on how good it is for faceoffs.

[chucktownattack]

who here has used or is using a gait torque? i would like to know about its stiffness and other info on how good it is for faceoffs.

I use a Torque. It doesn't pop right back into perfect position, but doesn't warp too bad. It's not very stiff, but not uber-flexible. I like it, and many others do.

[FrontierFOGO]

So its good for all the moves like clamp laser jump? How long have you been using the same one and is it still in good shape? Does it hold up when ur fighting with the other guy and its all stick on stick contact?

[FrontierFOGO]

sry for all the questions just need a good faceoff head

[chucktownattack]

I use it for power moves and regular ones. It's help up great the 2 months I've had it.

[lslaxer]

sry for all the questions just need a good faceoff head
Okay, then this is what you're looking for:
http://lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=45108&highlight=faceoff+thread+end

Stin said before this thread is not for discussing equipment, so check out that thread and you'll find a boatload of the kind of info you're looking for.

[Casa42]

Hey guys, I just have a few questions about some tips I've been hearing a lot lately, and would just like your opinions on some of them.

1. I've heard this before and I saw it in the cantabene video: is it more effective to have your arms inside your legs? I've heard that this gives you a little more power, but I feel like it hinders quickness.

2. What about bottom hand placement? I currently have it at about 16 inches from the head, but I'm experimenting with moving it up a bit to about 12. I feel like this gives necessary speed/quickness w/out losing control.

3. Head Tilt: I use the moto grip, and cannot decide whether trying to tilt the head forward as much as possible w/out getting called or keeping teh head straight and cocking my hands back and exploding on the whistle is more effective.

4. When using the "pinch and pop" or "plunge" technique, do you find that it's more effective to pinch the ball by putting pressure on the bottom rail or the top rail? I feel like when you do it w/ the top rail you protect the ball more from the opponent b/c your flipping the head over, but pinching w/ the bottom rail is a bit quicker. Thoughts??

[bulldog24]

always keep your hands inside your legs, that allows you to step forward and keeps you low. hand placement is really whatever is comfortable, cantabene teaches that shoulder length is good, but whatever feels right. i would always try and lean in until the ref warns you. (as stated before by good fogos, if you're not cheating you're not trying) and on the plunger, half clamp the ball and put pressure on your right while lifting your left. this bends the top sidewall. i would recomend doing it that way.

[faceofflax15]

I was wowzered at midwest 99 when i was picking the ball up with my plunger and the opponent grabbed the ball out of my head.. one hell of a job to him to do it without being seen, because, most people can't grab a ball out of a head.

[chucktownattack]

I was wowzered at midwest 99 when i was picking the ball up with my plunger and the opponent grabbed the ball out of my head.. one hell of a job to him to do it without being seen, because, most people can't grab a ball out of a head.

Did he do that with his hands or his stick? If he did that with his hands why didn't you smash them?

[faceofflax15]

Did he do that with his hands or his stick? If he did that with his hands why didn't you smash them?
My stick was in mid-air?

His hands.

How am I suppouse to smash his hands when my stick is now vertical and I'm moving it roughly a few inches to the left so my plunger move isn't to be blocked by his body. Trust me, it was the most bizzare move I've ever seen, surprised the ref didn't see.

Still kind of wondering how he got his hand in there...

[keylimepie111]

always keep your hands inside your legs, that allows you to step forward and keeps you low. hand placement is really whatever is comfortable, cantabene teaches that shoulder length is good, but whatever feels right. i would always try and lean in until the ref warns you. (as stated before by good fogos, if you're not cheating you're not trying) and on the plunger, half clamp the ball and put pressure on your right while lifting your left. this bends the top sidewall. i would recomend doing it that way.

1. if you put your hands between your legs you lose the ability to get your body as close to the ball as possible rather then one hand in front the other behind your right leg.
2. the only good move the comes from that is knocking the guy on his @$$
3. there is only one other reason why you would do that and its to turn and run back on d if u just got owned by a plunger.

[faceofflax15]

1. if you put your hands between your legs you lose the ability to get your body as close to the ball as possible rather then one hand in front the other behind your right leg.
2. the only good move the comes from that is knocking the guy on his @$$
3. there is only one other reason why you would do that and its to turn and run back on d if u just got owned by a plunger.
Actually, you put your left arm just to the inside of your right knee, or directly infront of it, touching, so if its a fight for the ball, you can use your leg strength to outpower the clamp by using your knee against your elbow for more power.
And you can still line up close.

[keylimepie111]

Casa two answer questions 3 and 4 for question 3 keep your hand strait dont lean i because the only reason to lean in is to do a clamp type move or maybe a jam, if you need to do a reverse clamp then your screwed and they have become aware of your strategy try to always stay as consistent as possible.

For the plunger press down on your head with your right hand and lift with your left that will pinch the ball then shoot it out in front of you.
P.S. dont break your stick trying my friend had a torque that was not flex able and it broke.

[keylimepie111]

faceoff 15 I have seen that done, though im not much of fan of it, it does work. It's a little awkward for me and make me a bit slower

[bulldog24]

keylimepie, i think i just didnt describe it good enough. and no, not on crack. do you mean to say you line up with your knees in side your hands on a face-off? how do you step?

http://www.lax.com/bimages/1623/4 alex smith, arguably the best fogo ever lining up with hands/arm in between legs.
....still not on crack

[LaxJax_13]

I'm going to say that putting your right knee inside your right arm works just as well as right arm inside. I used to put my leg inside all the time since freshman year. When a good friend of my dads tried to teach me leg outside I felt that it was too akward and kept with my old ways. I only started using arm inside last fall to the point where it is normal for me. I myself can't tell a big difference between the two. Having your arm out does get you closer to the ball, but arm in allows you to get lower and it gets you in better position for jumps and rakes.

[isk8apopwar]

any videos of the Pinch and pop?

[faceofflax15]

any videos of the Pinch and pop?
First page, "Pinch and Pop" Is the exact same thing as the plunger...

[lslaxer]

Also on lacrossedraws.com, there's a demo from Andy Tower's DVD. There's also one on IL.tv

[Lax101]

To all FOGO junkies:

Is anyone doing this camp?

http://laxcamps.com/camps/Clinic/lawrencevilleFOClinic.html

It's probably the only face-off specific clinic in the country and it's being run by Nolan Godfrey, a D2 All-American and MLL/NLL player. He's legit. And he's a coach at one of the best teams in New England, where he made their FOGO one of the best kids in the state within just a season of teachig him.

It's an insane camp. Look at the agenda:

Personal evaluation
Video analysis
Proper technique
athletic stance and footwork
Ground ball technique
Running the 4v3 fast break
Shooting on the run
Wing play
Communication with the face-off unit
Defending and countering all face-off moves
Review of face-off rules and regulations
Review of what referees look for and forget to look for
Deceptive moves
Stick pinching and alterations for face-offs
Stick stringing for face-offs
Mental preparation
Drills to work on alone

If you're a serious FOGO and are in the area, DEFINITELY make the trip there. It's ridiculously cheap too.

[faceofflax15]

To all FOGO junkies:

Is anyone doing this camp?

http://laxcamps.com/camps/Clinic/lawrencevilleFOClinic.html

It's probably the only face-off specific clinic in the country and it's being run by Nolan Godfrey, a D2 All-American and MLL/NLL player. He's legit. And he's a coach at one of the best teams in New England, where he made their FOGO one of the best kids in the state within just a season of teachig him.

It's an insane camp. Look at the agenda:

Personal evaluation
Video analysis
Proper technique
athletic stance and footwork
Ground ball technique
Running the 4v3 fast break
Shooting on the run
Wing play
Communication with the face-off unit
Defending and countering all face-off moves
Review of face-off rules and regulations
Review of what referees look for and forget to look for
Deceptive moves
Stick pinching and alterations for face-offs
Stick stringing for face-offs
Mental preparation
Drills to work on alone

If you're a serious FOGO and are in the area, DEFINITELY make the trip there. It's ridiculously cheap too.
Corno and Cantabene both do camps for faceoff only. But this guy looks dang good. I can go to another camp this summer, and it has to be the week of this camp, due to travel team practice. So now I have to decide between this and UNC, UNC i go with a bud, this I go by myself.
Decisions, Decisions.

[LaxJax_13]

I'm going to the camp. It looks like its going to be a very instructional as well as fun.

[bulldog24]

cantabenes camp was great, do you know what andy cornos is called or do you have a website link for it?

[GBaschski]

Corno and Cantabene both do camps for faceoff only. But this guy looks dang good. I can go to another camp this summer, and it has to be the week of this camp, due to travel team practice. So now I have to decide between this and UNC, UNC i go with a bud, this I go by myself.
Decisions, Decisions.

You'll get no face-off instruction at all at UNC, so if you're a FOGO then I'd go to the face-off camp for sure. If you just want to have fun and play a bunch of lax with your friends, go to UNC.

[faceofflax15]

You'll get no face-off instruction at all at UNC, so if you're a FOGO then I'd go to the face-off camp for sure. If you just want to have fun and play a bunch of lax with your friends, go to UNC.
My travel team coach is very good friends with the UNC coach, and he wants me and my friend to go there, because he would tell them to keep a specific eye out for us.

[Valaxman17]

If your interested in chapel hill i'd say go to that especially if your travel team coach is friends with UNC's coach

[Laxking31]

Im going to the Nolan Godfrey one. It is a gamebreaker camp. I am also going to a camp with Pete Vlahakis.Vlahakis had the best win percentage in the MLL last year for those who dont know(60%). I also know vlahakis personally and can get lessons whenever I want (which I do). So im pretty much set for face-off instruction! :agree:

[etowahlax21]

Nice videos but your head is on the throat like every time. lol

[faceofflax15]

Nice videos but your head is on the throat like every time. lol
so? Must be new to faceoffs, you want your hand as close to the throat/on the throat, untill the ref tells you otherwise.

[etowahlax21]

It is ILLEGAL to have yor hand on the throat. You want to get as close as possible without actually touching the plastic.

[UVAlaxer432]

I would definatley go to that FO camp but i can't afford it =[

[faceofflax15]

It is ILLEGAL to have yor hand on the throat. You want to get as close as possible without actually touching the plastic.
Half the stuff me, RIT, Alex Smith, Etc [Yeah I just put my name in that group, Makes me feel good bout my self], do, is illegal.

I want you to go about two pages back, when I explained to MadCowDisease about how much of a disadvantage one putsthemself by not having their hand on the plastic, stick tilted, hands on the ground, not in the neutral zone etc.

I gaurentee you do illegal stuff without realizing it.

Point of the story, put your hand on the plastic untill the ref notices and asks you to move it off.


Thank you, Come again, but Don't argue.

[etowahlax21]

So I should try and cheat on Faceoffs. O.K. That's cool. The grab, two fingers, hand on the plastic. Did I miss anything???

[RIT37FO]

i have my hands on the plastic EVERY single draw i take
so does everyone else

[faceofflax15]

So I should try and cheat on Faceoffs. O.K. That's cool. The grab, two fingers, hand on the plastic. Did I miss anything???
Bro, I can gaurentee that cheating on the faceoffs is a necesity. Grabbing and the two finger aren't needed, but crowding the neutral zone, hands on the plastic, head tilted, shaft not parrallel, and left hand not completly on ground.

Do you do the plunger? By some refs standard, thats illegal? Does it seem illegal? Nope, but because the ball is picked up with the back of the head, we have refs here who've called it illegal.

Listen man, grabbing and two finger are NOT needed, but hand on the plastic is, just please, trust your elders.

[justlaxin1819]

So I should try and cheat on Faceoffs. O.K. That's cool. The grab, two fingers, hand on the plastic. Did I miss anything???im sure everyone cheats. i know i do. ive done the grab and the 2 finger maybe once a game because its effective but after one i would get caught but everyone cheats. you've got to cheat to win

[faceofflax15]

im sure everyone cheats. i know i do. ive done the grab and the 2 finger maybe once a game because its effective but after one i would get caught but everyone cheats. you've got to cheat to win
Damn right, and theres much many more ways to cheat then just grab and two finger, like i said before neautral zone and crap.

[wahooslax19]

thank you for the videos they helped me out a lot
where u watching Out Cold in the background?

[etowahlax21]

Thanks Faceofflax15. I am not really new to FO's but I haven't taken many lately. I will do a bunch on Monday at the double header we have. I will try a bunch of the stuff there. I will definatly do the hand on the plastic though. ;)

[26laxman26]

If your not cheating, your not trying. lol

[faceofflax15]

Thanks Faceofflax15. I am not really new to FO's but I haven't taken many lately. I will do a bunch on Monday at the double header we have. I will try a bunch of the stuff there. I will definatly do the hand on the plastic though. ;)
Yeah, I mean like I said, two finger and grab are the worst forms of cheating for faceoffs [but I do them occasionally, because I do what I have to do to get the ball], but the others like hand on the plastic and stuff, thats just normal now.Put a piece of white tape from your throat to like, cover an inch of your shaft too, makes it harder to see your hand on the plastic.

[faceofflax15]

Anything new in the F0 world? Rit, Jedi, CBHS, care to add to the F0 critique megathread? I feel like I'm one of the only ones critiquing there, and I'm sure you guys would know way better than I.

[manup5183]

I say we merge the videos onto here or ill just paste mine in here

as far as the FO world, It will be interesting to try out the F-off.

[faceofflax15]

The F-off looks stupid and pointless. I hope it burns and fails. The selling point of the blade was its flexibility, and with it being stiff, its ruined.,

[lslaxer]

The F-off looks stupid and pointless. I hope it burns and fails. The selling point of the blade was its flexibility, and with it being stiff, its ruined.,
I agree, if it's stiff, it's not a blade.

And I still don't understand what the different sidewalls do to affect faceoffs. It shows how much the faceoff world has evolved that they are now making a head designed especially for facing off.

[etowahlax21]

The f-off that kid has is only a PROTOTYPE. It is not the final product. I honestly think that it will be more flexy in the final product. Either that or it will become more flexy over time. When I got my origional Blade it was stiff at first then it became more flexy over time.

At the double header:
1st game: 0-3 Got the clamp every time. Stupid wingman
2nd game: 3-4 10x better than my first game.

[faceofflax15]

Agreed, faceoff. All they had to do add to the Blade was an EZ-Scoop, an elliptical throat, and a "2.0" suffix, and they would have sold billions. [Insert obligatory shot at Warrior here]
Exactly. Actually I like the throat, but scoop and 2.0 and bingo bango bongo we have a winner.


The f-off that kid has is only a PROTOTYPE. It is not the final product. I honestly think that it will be more flexy in the final product. Either that or it will become more flexy over time. When I got my origional Blade it was stiff at first then it became more flexy over time.

At the double header:
1st game: 0-3 Got the clamp every time. Stupid wingman
2nd game: 3-4 10x better than my first game.
Doesn't matter if you get the clamp everytime, its YOUR responsibility to get the ball. I don't even use my wingmen, never to never. I send one of them down the line before the whistle to stop the possiblity of a fastbreak, and the other man is sent downfield or upfield depending on my move, to clear him out of my way, that way I have room to work. Read my earlier posts about wingmen and their uselessness, you want it to be 1 v. 1 not 3 v3.. And no, thats how its going to be, its overhyped and its not going to be good.

[GBaschski]

Doesn't matter if you get the clamp everytime, its YOUR responsibility to get the ball. I don't even use my wingmen, never to never. I send one of them down the line before the whistle to stop the possiblity of a fastbreak, and the other man is sent downfield or upfield depending on my move, to clear him out of my way, that way I have room to work. Read my earlier posts about wingmen and their uselessness, you want it to be 1 v. 1 not 3 v3.. And no, thats how its going to be, its overhyped and its not going to be good.

That's not a very good mentality to have. Sure, it's better to put the ball out to yourself as much as you can, but there's always a time and place to use your wingmen. Even Alex Smith pops it out to his wing guys once in a while. It's a good way to take some of the pressure off yourself and keep the opponents guessing. It also helps if the other team is playing you really well off the draw and you have a wingman wide open to pop the ball out to.

Whatever it takes to get the posession.

[faceofflax15]

That's not a very good mentality to have. Sure, it's better to put the ball out to yourself as much as you can, but there's always a time and place to use your wingmen. Even Alex Smith pops it out to his wing guys once in a while. It's a good way to take some of the pressure off yourself and keep the opponents guessing. It also helps if the other team is playing you really well off the draw and you have a wingman wide open to pop the ball out to.

Whatever it takes to get the posession.
No, thats the right mentality to take. You must go into every faceoff thinking, "This is my ball, this man is trying to take MY ball. This guy is my woman. He's a little girl. Etc" Then, it is your responsibility to get the ball. An idea faceoff would be to get it to be a 1 vs. 1 groundball as long as you can. Talk to any good faceoff men, don't ever, ever, ever trust your wingmen. It's your responsibility. No one elses. Although they do help once in a blue moon. It's yours, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You keep your opponent guessing by doing different moves and placing the ball in differnt spots for YOURSELF. Please, don't argue.

[pantherLax]

faceofflax15: You seem to know a lot about lax, and especially faceoffs. You definitely know more than many of the people here including me and I think I can say many of us have learned a lot from you and I would like to thank you for that. Now, I totally respect you, actually I look up to you because you have alot of F/O knowledge...But why should we believe in the things you say? How old are you and are you good as you seem to be? I'm sure you plan to play in college...what level of play are you realistically looking to play?

[faceofflax15]

faceofflax15: You seem to know a lot about lax, and especially faceoffs. You definitely know more than many of the people here including me and I think I can say many of us have learned a lot from you and I would like to thank you for that. Now, I totally respect you, actually I look up to you because you have alot of F/O knowledge...But why should we believe in the things you say? How old are you and are you good as you seem to be? I'm sure you plan to play in college...what level of play are you realistically looking to play?
Faceoff wise? I don't lose much, and I'm currently a up and coming Junior, so no college coaches can speak to me yet. However, my travel team coach says I have a lot of potential to play in the Lower Tier D1 level lacrosse. To get to level beyond that, he told me what I need to work on, My over-all strength and my outside left-handed shot. I'm however not happy with that, I have my heart set on Upper-Tier D1 or Bust [Notre Dame to be exact, or Denver]. And I practice my heart out to get there. I know a lot about faceoffs from studying them online, I took over 98% of them this year [in blow of games we'd have me sit out a couple, and I didn't take two when i hurt me knee for a quater]. And my coach this year, went to St. Vincents [d2] on a full ride for faceoffs, and tutored me and trained me during the pre-season and during the season to become a very legitament faceoff contender in the upper level. To compare my skills to others, I recently attended Midwest 99 Showcase [an invite only recruiting camp], and faceoff wise, I think I lost 5ish over at least a 7-8 game period. Realistically, I'm looking at a lower-tier d1 level college, but I'm not happy with that. Right hand and face-offs, I have been told are just about at the level I need them at, but my left, isn't there yet. I know a lot about faceoffs, from my coach. And I've helped tutor a lot of people with it, for instance, I'm tutoring someone today before he has a rec league game at 7.

[faceofflax15]

anyone to commet on my post
Icon was kind of stiff for a begginingers[sp] stick, if you really want to use it for plungers, boil it. you don't need to pinch it, but boiling it will make it more flexible

[cashbala456]

yo my coach told me to practice with my teammates in the off season b/c he wants me to face off....so i do everyday and they all used to beat me...every single time..but now i can win occasionally.thanks for the great thread!

[faceofflax15]

So for the first time in my career I went 0-3. I tried to FOGO one of our games today, but I just couldn't. I'm generally not a fogo, but a real middie. But I hurt my ribs/Back a lot, and I had trouble fighting for the ball. I'd get the ball forward, but any hit to my left ribs I just crumbled. I'm seeing a doctor on weds. It's pretty bad, it actually hurts to laugh.


But on a cool note, My team played at half time at the Machine vs. Denver game. Yah thats right, I faced-off at the same X just minutes after Geoff Snider did. And I talked with him in the hottub at the pool and after the game. Just had to share. He gave me a couple tips. He actually doesn't do anything to spectacular, just what he does is done sooo damn well.

[jedimasterPIMP]

No, thats the right mentality to take. You must go into every faceoff thinking, "This is my ball, this man is trying to take MY ball. This guy is my woman. He's a little girl. Etc" Then, it is your responsibility to get the ball. An idea faceoff would be to get it to be a 1 vs. 1 groundball as long as you can. Talk to any good faceoff men, don't ever, ever, ever trust your wingmen. It's your responsibility. No one elses. Although they do help once in a blue moon. It's yours, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You keep your opponent guessing by doing different moves and placing the ball in differnt spots for YOURSELF. Please, don't argue.
Sir, to be a good faceoff man it should be a 1 v. 0 ground ball whether your wingman gets it or you do. And now for me to poke wholes in every argument you have for not using your wingmen. Starters, I like getting the ball myself a lot just because of the way my moves are and how I can place the ball. That being said, a good face of man is nothing without his wings. Talk to Alex Smith about it, better yet read the article about him in IL. He said its something to the tune of its great to know I have guys around me that can get the ball for me. Even if he doesn't use them all the time, its just knowing that they are there and can pick up the ball is enough.

Lets say you plunge it out in front of you, but the other team crashes both of their wingman down to stop a fast break, what do you do? The other faceoff guy is behind you, so you can't really decide to turn around and pick the ball up and if you do pick the ball up and go straight, you are likely to get annihilated. So what lots of guys do, they goose the ball backwards toward their wingman, they get possession and everything is great.

Another situation, is when there is a tie up for a ball at the X, its actually easier for you to put it to your wingman and for them to pick the ball up where they have a better opportunity to get the ball and keep possession.

Its great to get the ball to yourself and there is nothing wrong with it, but to have the attitude that your wingman are nothing is the wrong one to have. Talk the any great face off guy EVER. Even if they didn't use them much, they still trusted them for the times they gave the ball to them. Trust me there will be a time where you will need your wingman and when you do your gonna want to trust them and then you will love them when the actually pull through for you.

[faceofflax15]

Sir, to be a good faceoff man it should be a 1 v. 0 ground ball whether your wingman gets it or you do. And now for me to poke wholes in every argument you have for not using your wingmen. Starters, I like getting the ball myself a lot just because of the way my moves are and how I can place the ball. That being said, a good face of man is nothing without his wings. Talk to Alex Smith about it, better yet read the article about him in IL. He said its something to the tune of its great to know I have guys around me that can get the ball for me. Even if he doesn't use them all the time, its just knowing that they are there and can pick up the ball is enough.

Lets say you plunge it out in front of you, but the other team crashes both of their wingman down to stop a fast break, what do you do? The other faceoff guy is behind you, so you can't really decide to turn around and pick the ball up and if you do pick the ball up and go straight, you are likely to get annihilated. So what lots of guys do, they goose the ball backwards toward their wingman, they get possession and everything is great.

Another situation, is when there is a tie up for a ball at the X, its actually easier for you to put it to your wingman and for them to pick the ball up where they have a better opportunity to get the ball and keep possession.

Its great to get the ball to yourself and there is nothing wrong with it, but to have the attitude that your wingman are nothing is the wrong one to have. Talk the any great face off guy EVER. Even if they didn't use them much, they still trusted them for the times they gave the ball to them. Trust me there will be a time where you will need your wingman and when you do your gonna want to trust them and then you will love them when the actually pull through for you.
No one is arguing is great to have them there, but the right mentality is to think this ball is mine, and those boys are more of a back-up. Their job is t o get the ground ball yes, but a lot of mistakes that 90% of younger Faceoff men use, is to just rake the ball to their wingmen, making it a 3 on 3 ground ball from the beginning. You can't tell me you've never seen HS freshman, JV, SSome varsity faceoff men just rake the ball towards their wingmen, then the wingmen lose it, and then they say "Well I won the clamp its their fault we didn't get possession" Because I for one have. And that is the worst. It is the man at the Xs job to get the ground ball, no one elses. Sure, they help you out. And I had amazing wing men at my disposal this year, a ground ball machine who I'm positive will go somewhere great for lacrosse, and the fastest, best athlete on our team. Thats great, but You can not go into the faceoff thinking im giving the ball to my wingmen to fight for it. No, you must think the ball is mine, where can i place it so i can get it.

[jedimasterPIMP]

True, but it should be part of your game to put it to you wingman behind you, behind you to yourself, and all kinds of other places. A good enough faceoff guy will know exactly where to put it so his man and only his man will get it.

[faceofflax15]

True, but it should be part of your game to put it to you wingman behind you, behind you to yourself, and all kinds of other places. A good enough faceoff guy will know exactly where to put it so his man and only his man will get it.
99% of the time, I put my wingmen, in places to clear out of my way. As good as my wing-men were, I was much more comftorable with a 1vs.1, contrary to a 3vs3. Or any involvment with my wing. my wings did help me, and I'm not trying to say they are worthless, but in my opinion its 100x better to do it to yourself.

[jedimasterPIMP]

Yeah man I love putting it to myself and usually do I just always go for the 1 vs 0 gb and if that means I get it, I get it, but if that means my wingman gets it, he gets it.

[faceofflax15]

Yeah man I love putting it to myself and usually do I just always go for the 1 vs 0 gb and if that means I get it, I get it, but if that means my wingman gets it, he gets it.
When you say 1 vs. 0, your saying that as, you know where the ball is and all right? Because if you don't mean it that way, 1 vs. 0 doesn't make sesne, and thats what I mean by 1 vs. 1.

[faceofflax15]

Quick note regarding 2 fingering, since it was brought up in another thread.

I use to beleive that it was easier to two finger leather pockets, but now that the two finger is used more often by me as a counter to a regaular clamp, or he has the half clamp is slow to get it out, I've realized its just as easy with mesh or trad variant because your suppouse to two finger the sidewall...

[GBaschski]

Here's a question for you guys...Do referees in your area call "Down-Whistle" or "Down-Set-Whistle?"

Here in North Carolina, we follow NCAA rules and we go with the "Down-Whistle" call. That was the only way I'd ever faced off until this summer I went to the MVP Tournament at Rutgers with the local select team and they were going NFHS style with "Down-Set.." and it messed me up completely. I don't know why I had such a hard time adjusting, but if I wasn't going early when the ref said "Set," I would hesitate after he said it and be slow as crap on the whistle.
Another else ever having any problems making the transition between the two cadences? Anyone have any advice for adapting?

[faceofflax15]

Here's a question for you guys...Do referees in your area call "Down-Whistle" or "Down-Set-Whistle?"

Here in North Carolina, we follow NCAA rules and we go with the "Down-Whistle" call. That was the only way I'd ever faced off until this summer I went to the MVP Tournament at Rutgers with the local select team and they were going NFHS style with "Down-Set.." and it messed me up completely. I don't know why I had such a hard time adjusting, but if I wasn't going early when the ref said "Set," I would hesitate after he said it and be slow as crap on the whistle.
Another else ever having any problems making the transition between the two cadences? Anyone have any advice for adapting?
Yeah, I deffinitly have problems with it. MI is techinically NFHS rules with SET, but some refs said set and some just did whistle, I had to ask every ref before each game what they were going to do and store a mental note. Then in IL earler today for some games, it was just down-whistle. Man, those refs were strict. I'm still mad about one of his calls. Friggen unnescesary roughness for rocking a guy trying to catch the ball on the crease...

[jedimasterPIMP]

This past season it was all down set whistle for me. I love the down whistle thing though could be the best thing to happen to the face off in a while.

[chucktownattack]

This past season it was all down set whistle for me. I love the down whistle thing though could be the best thing to happen to the face off in a while.

Makes it faster, easier to cheat :devil:. It's cool because there is less time for you to read your opponent and less time for your opponent to read you.

[settam11]

question what sticks besides the blade are good for the pinch and pop move or a quick plunge and forward

[chucktownattack]

question what sticks besides the blade are good for the pinch and pop move or a quick plunge and forward

Alot, I like the Torque, the E3, and the Oz

[faceofflax15]

Alot, I like the Torque, the E3, and the Oz
E3 and the Oz are NOT flexible. I wouldn't suggest them for the pinch and pop or plunger move. I'd suggest Blade, Razer[original], Motive, Pinched Profile, and clutch AFTER it flexes up.

[jedimasterPIMP]

Ha I can make any head flexible just give me around 40 minutes and a large pot of hot water. I actually was just tinkering around with an old savage and I think I have created a monster.

[faceofflax15]

Ha I can make any head flexible just give me around 40 minutes and a large pot of hot water. I actually was just tinkering around with an old savage and I think I have created a monster.
Yah, well I think the kid meant out of the store...

So, Jedi, I never asked you, Are you with me on the Flip grip FO man or Moto?

[jedimasterPIMP]

I do both actually, I would switch from game to game sometimes. I think I prefer moto a bit more for some reason not too sure why but I think it makes my clamp a tad quicker I can feel it.

[faceofflax15]

I do both actually, I would switch from game to game sometimes. I think I prefer moto a bit more for some reason not too sure why but I think it makes my clamp a tad quicker I can feel it.
I see. I've been messing with Moto over the summer, and I use to hate it. It's growing on me though, I feel however, that I am far more comftorable in Flippers, and That it fits my personal FO style better.

[jedimasterPIMP]

Everyone does their own thing. I like moto a bit more because I feel more explosive its a weird feeling I guess.

[LaxNut5]

Great job on this thread man...its detailed and the videos are good.

by the way the kamikaze is hilarious!!

[GBaschski]

So what do you guys do to train for facing off?

I use a weighted stick and work on my moves with the recorded whistles to help my speed.
Then of course I lift a lot to get stronger. I do a lot of wrist curls to make my forearms stronger.

[faceofflax15]

Lift. Jump the ball. And thats pretty much it. Often times when the ball is on the ground after I shoot I just kinda go down into my stance and take a faceoff right there, but I feel faceoffs are part just, pure athleticism. You can't do tooo much to practice them besides jump and lift weights.



So recently at a rec game, I decided to mess around for fun. So I plunged, stepped over my stick, let my right hand go, passed the stick between left hand to right hand and then tossed the ball behind my back forward. I thought it was fly.

[BwineLAX42]

faceofflax, if Denver and Notre Dame don't work out for you, come to Delaware, it worked for Alex Smith.

It was noted earlier that it is easier to cheat on Down-Whistle. Does anyone notice that a lot of the top FO guys will always be the 2nd guy down, and as soon as they are set the whistle blows. That timing allows them to have thier stick at 35-40 degree angle over the ball. Snider did it at the AS game, and A11 did it sometimes during the season.

Anyone have a recording of whistle's on thier comp?

[faceofflax15]

faceofflax, if Denver and Notre Dame don't work out for you, come to Delaware, it worked for Alex Smith.

It was noted earlier that it is easier to cheat on Down-Whistle. Does anyone notice that a lot of the top FO guys will always be the 2nd guy down, and as soon as they are set the whistle blows. That timing allows them to have thier stick at 35-40 degree angle over the ball. Snider did it at the AS game, and A11 did it sometimes during the season.

Anyone have a recording of whistle's on thier comp?

I'm not quite ready yet. Soon enough though.


Yeah, most faceoff men really try to be the second one down on almost every faceoff. Gives them more time to read your opponent and its just a mental thing. There are times where I go down second on purpose, sometimes I feel like I have a better body positioning going down second.

[turbo48]

Snider did it at the AS game, and A11 did it sometimes during the season.

what is this A11 business?

[faceofflax15]

Alex Smith, Number 11.

[RIT37FO]

not feeling the a11 stuff
reminds me of steak sauce :yum:

this summer i have been going against Udells new face off guy (presumably)
the only thing he knows how to do is jump since it was the only way to beat "A11". lazers dont get any easier than that :P

[DJ Death]

so what do you guys do when you guys are absolutely killing at the faceoff x and the other team makes a shorty play d on your weakest attackman and puts a longpole at the faceoff x along with the lsm on the wing? this happened to my team one game and the longpole on faceoff didn't even bother trying to win the faceoff. he just let our fogo win it and would be all over his back hand (he was a stud d-pole by the way...getting looked at by some top 20 D1 colleges, i'm told...) and our fogo didn't stand a chance. our fogo has very good stick skills too and handles the ball very well, but he just didn't stand a chance. i think in this situation, using your wingmen is a must, but i want to hear what you have to say about this, faceofflax or rit.

[turbo48]

yea "A11" is definitely lame. doesn't even make that much sense since it just says A... Alex 11. I'd lose it.

[turbo48]

am i the only one who has problems with trying to have the most severe pinch possible (to get under the opponent's stick) but also keep the ball from getting lodged between the sidewalls too much? anyone who pinches their sticks, how do you keep the ball from getting stuck for a with-holding call, what kind of stringing do you use?

[faceofflax15]

Throughout the game my stick gets more and more pinched and with every faceoff, it's simple, I have to use more force to get it out.



And, flick the back at a 45 degree angle, to a place where the Stud Longpole isn't. 45 degree angles are best, it's hard to describe why, Cantabene does a good job explaining it in his video.


And you flick back to yourself, and go for it, your wingmen should be matching theres, at least one of them, the other should be dropped back for D-esque postioning. And if he matched their other wingmen, there should and will be open space either in front or behind you.

[GBaschski]

so what do you guys do when you guys are absolutely killing at the faceoff x and the other team makes a shorty play d on your weakest attackman and puts a longpole at the faceoff x along with the lsm on the wing? this happened to my team one game and the longpole on faceoff didn't even bother trying to win the faceoff. he just let our fogo win it and would be all over his back hand (he was a stud d-pole by the way...getting looked at by some top 20 D1 colleges, i'm told...) and our fogo didn't stand a chance. our fogo has very good stick skills too and handles the ball very well, but he just didn't stand a chance. i think in this situation, using your wingmen is a must, but i want to hear what you have to say about this, faceofflax or rit.

Yeah, that's the perfect time to have your wing guy drop back behind you, and you can pop the ball out to them. Not only will you get the posession, you'll also make the other team look really stupid because they're focusing all their attention on keeping the fogo from getting the ball.

[turbo48]

Yeah, that's the perfect time to have your wing guy drop back behind you, and you can pop the ball out to them. Not only will you get the posession, you'll also make the other team look really stupid because they're focusing all their attention on keeping the fogo from getting the ball.

Anyone who has been in this position, and (obviously) started popping the ball out to their naked wing man behind him, will know that after a while your wing guys will also be shut off, leaving it to you to get the ball yourself, unless your wing man is significantly faster than the opponent. There is no "easy" way to deal with this, a good coach or smart teammates should begin working to get open, whether it be through picks or flips or v cuts. The ground ball is up to you though, fundamental body positioning, tucking the ball to your chest, running away from pressure, etc.

[GBaschski]

Your wing guy should always have a step on the opponent in this situation...considering he knows where the ball is going to go. Either way, I'm not saying you should do this for every face-off, it's just a good technique if the other team is having two poles crash on you to keep you from getting a fastbreak.

P.S. Has anyone ever used a Proton Power for facing off? It seems like with the pinch and lightweight it should be pretty good.

[KUjayhawks42]

Did anyone ever make a FO training mp3? Down set whistle or down whistle at random intervals? JW, I could make one for us

[JLancer24]

If your making one please pm me with it.

[hstrack]

if there is anyone in the NYC area that would like to help me practice my faceoffs ill be more than happy? ive only been playing lacrosse for about 5 months but being that im actually a REALLY good track runner ive picked up the middie position quite well (not so great stickk skills but i have the ability to simply facedodge and run past them) and ive started taking faceoffs in games and ive only lost about 6 times out about 20? but i only clamp or jump and no one on my team (not even the old faceoff guy he only clamps) know anything about it so anyone in NYC and would be willing to practice would be VERY appreaciated

[DJ Death]

P.S. Has anyone ever used a Proton Power for facing off? It seems like with the pinch and lightweight it should be pretty good.
jamison koesterer and stephen peyser on hopkins both used proton powers on faceoff's this season. they were one of the most successful f/o squads in D1.

[HawkletLax]

hey, i was wondering, im not a faceoff specialist but on my middie line i always faceoff. but how do heads strung only for faceoffs throw? i am thinking about having one but i dont know if it is worth it if it doesnt throw well.

[justlaxin1819]

im not sure if this belongs in this thread or a thread of its own but is anyone going to paul cantabenes face off camp on the 21st. i just found out that me and about 3 other kids on our team that do faceoffs get to go to it for free because he's our club team coach.

[faceofflax15]

Your wing guy should always have a step on the opponent in this situation...considering he knows where the ball is going to go. Either way, I'm not saying you should do this for every face-off, it's just a good technique if the other team is having two poles crash on you to keep you from getting a fastbreak.

P.S. Has anyone ever used a Proton Power for facing off? It seems like with the pinch and lightweight it should be pretty good.

I used a PP, and liked it a lot. A lot a lot.



Ehh, Your wingmen won't always know where its going, they should have an idea though. Because there is no way to communicate to your wingmen after you read your opponent, which is another reason its up to you. Unless those wings are running a 4.4 and your getting tied up for a couple seconds at the X, you should be fine regardless of what they do..

[stinisonfire]

Ehh, Your wingmen won't always know where its going, they should have an idea though. Because there is no way to communicate to your wingmen after you read your opponent, which is another reason its up to you.

Not true. That's why you develop signals with your wings before the face. If you're making your decision based on what you think the other guy is going to do, you're playing defensive and then you automatically have to fight for the ball and not know where it's going if you even win it.

Or, if you won it and don't know where your wingmen are (if you rely on your wingmen all the time), come up with a codename for them to say. Freshman year my LSM would yell "pickle" and I'd flick it to where he was. It was up to him to do the rest.

[faceofflax15]

Not true. That's why you develop signals with your wings before the face. If you're making your decision based on what you think the other guy is going to do, you're playing defensive and then you automatically have to fight for the ball and not know where it's going if you even win it.

Or, if you won it and don't know where your wingmen are (if you rely on your wingmen all the time), come up with a codename for them to say. Freshman year my LSM would yell "pickle" and I'd flick it to where he was. It was up to him to do the rest.

That may be true at the College level, or with smart wingmen, but I'm lucky they go where I want them to be before the F0 begins.

And, not really playing defensivly, If your setting up for a clamp and S clamp out of there, and you can tell they are going to jump, So you change your move to the lazer, thats not defensivly, thats just smart.

[faceofflax15]

It, for the most part, bounced back into postion after my plunger, which isn't that comman. I also liked, its flex/stiffness, not to stiff, not to flexy.

Besides faceoffs I can't stand my blade, I go to throw a hard poke check and it just bends. I went to scoop and it flooped and bent in all sorts of ways.

[faceofflax15]

It's my only stick thats not broken?


Well, I have my razer now thanks to Maki, but I'm still tinkering with its stringjob.. Odds are the blade won't be for too much longer, because this blade is just about to enough to piss me off.

[RIT37FO]

blade is nice but really unless you LOVE the blade you arent going to play with it

[faceofflax15]

Yeah, its beauty at its best form for F0s, but except that, its way too flexy.


My Razers a bit stiffer, Hopefully it'll work for me a tad bit better.


But just watching my head bend complety to one side as I poked check someone in the stumach, made me mad. And it bending on a groundball, I didn't have the best form for it, but still.

[the next 'one']

well i didn't bother to read all 13 pages of this thread, but i thought i would just like to put in my two cents.

a few tips i know of...

if you tape around the head and the shaft, it will let you get around another 1/2 closer to the throat and actually let you get up onto the plastic because the ref can't see where the head ends and the shaft begins.

another great tip that i use all the time is if your opponent beats you on the plunger or rake or any other move that gets the ball behind you and in front of him, just stay low and step out to your right with your foot. it should have already been over there because you should always step on a faceoff, but just slide it out even farther. this will make him literally run right into your thigh. if you have strong enough legs, you can stop him completely, at which point you can make it a 50/50 fight for the ball, instead of a clean win for him. a few times i have even tripped the guy when he starts running, giving me a clean win. either way, remember to step, and if needed, step again.

simple tip, make sure you have tape/grip where your top hand is. it really does help when you have a tight grip on your shaft.

that's all i have for now...i will get more later.

[faceofflax15]

Whats with it and east-coast fo men going Moto? Like, all the fo men I saw last weekend went Moto, except one. And none were any too amazing at it..


There Were quite a few fogos there, which was fun.

[Valaxman17]

howd you do against them?

[faceofflax15]

Around 75% myself.. As a team we went around 65%

[RIT37FO]

Whats with it and east-coast fo men going Moto? Like, all the fo men I saw last weekend went Moto, except one. And none were any too amazing at it..


There Were quite a few fogos there, which was fun.

ever hear of alex smith
blame him

[faceofflax15]

ever hear of alex smith
blame him

What's an Alex Smith? [7ish]

But, I don't know. Alex Smith is east coast. Denver [Geoff], Is mid-west/West.. so I guess you can say, when we played, it was like a miniature version of those do, just not quite as good.

[DJ Death]

alex smith uses moto as well as paul cantabene, who explains it really well in one of his videos. using moto grip gives you a bit of a faster clamp.

[hXcLaxer]

I use moto. its sick for the plunger

[hXcLaxer]

What do you guys think about the clutch for draws?

[Valaxman17]

after it softens up its nice but before hand its ugly

[chucktownattack]

What do you guys think about the clutch for draws?

RIT37FO likes it. It's pinch is pretty tight. It's up to you. I suggest a Torque. You WILL break it though.

[RIT37FO]

give it a few days of break in and its what i swear by
yet to break one
i had one warp to much after a year of use and it took me over a hour to break it
eventually ran it over

[hXcLaxer]

What about the Primer

[RIT37FO]

please check out the face of head thread in stinisonfire signature

[hXcLaxer]

what are the advantages and disadvantages of facing off with one knee on the ground?

[faceofflax15]

There's no advantages...


Disadvantages: Slower to step, Slower to stop the fast break, Slower to start a fast break.

[RIT37FO]

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=66384&author=148938&blog=168385

[faceofflax15]

I thought there would be more in that article, it's kind of just.. nothing. But, they do sort of recognize the importance of us faceoff men, and I'll take that.

[truss009]

if theres an attackman on the team that is also the best FO man, would you reccomend him taking the faceoffs and then switching to attack after however ling it takes. I could be in this situation in the upcoming year. I just want to know your opinions on this. Also the advantages and disadvantages.

[chucktownattack]

if theres an attackman on the team that is also the best FO man, would you reccomend him taking the faceoffs and then switching to attack after however ling it takes. I could be in this situation in the upcoming year. I just want to know your opinions on this. Also the advantages and disadvantages.

It depends if there are attackmen who are better than you. The best thing would be to talk to your coach and see.

[faceofflax15]

Why don't you just play midfield? Learn to play some D-Mid. And then you will be an even better player than before because you would be used to driving against Long Poles, and as a middie, you have a better chance at going against a short stick defender..

[faceofflax15]

So weird tip I got I guess:

My Dad's company just hired a new employee, he is a former Dpole. He went to Syracuse and didn't get any playing time for his first two years there so he transfered to Nazerith [I know I spelt it wrong]. Well, he told me Dad that while he was at 'Cuse, the FOGO's did this drill:

They had rocks of all different sizes, and faced off against the rocks. And I guess each rock reacts differnt to each differnt move, causing you to have good reaction time.

Just a weird tip I got.


And, I was reading an old IL--The one from a day in durham. And Snider in that article says he takes faceoffs with resistance bands on his hands going across his back to make his reaction time faster and stronger. Anyone else try this?

[stinisonfire]

And, I was reading an old IL--The one from a day in durham. And Snider in that article says he takes faceoffs with resistance bands on his hands going across his back to make his reaction time faster and stronger. Anyone else try this?

Read it again, he's talking about how he does boxing exercises w/ resistance bands. Doing them on faceoffs would be pointless.

[faceofflax15]

Read it again, he's talking about how he does boxing exercises w/ resistance bands. Doing them on faceoffs would be pointless.

I knew it said boxing, I just think it would be more beneficial doing them on faceoffs. Why would it be pointless in your opinion?

[shakerlax222225]

another way to build more forearm strength would be to do chops on the ball with a shaft filled with pennies or sand or something

[faceofflax15]

Yeah, true. However I just think doing faceoffs with the resistance band would make your reaction time a lot more fierce. So when you faceoff without it, you would be quicker and stronger.

[RIT37FO]

ZOMG FAST B?REAK!
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/146/105/24409238/n24409238_31716710_2963.jpg

[faceofflax15]

WTF Rit? You are one odd fellow.

Nice pic though. I think that kid you are facing off against is from MI, Thats a birmingham helmet, and decals.. but just a guess.

[RIT37FO]

i think thats a drexel helmet
not sure though

[faceofflax15]

mm, I see the D now.. it looked like 11 from far away.. Which is the number of the guy who use to FO for Birmingham High School.



Few of my fastbreaks!!!27862187561
http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/6371/2910991270098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2910991270098672701feByWS)
http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/4459/2549678720098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2549678720098672701pVbHBf)
http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/7429/2687807600098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2687807600098672701wdOfrl)
http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/5821/2929743870098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2929743870098672701ifWFzZ)
http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/5141/2998790460098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2998790460098672701pBkWZA)
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/3292/2003003790098672701S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2003003790098672701rodcpu)

[lancerlax3]

some face offs....

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/447/laxxxxxx002el4.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7006/laxxxxxx063bq4.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1583/laxxxxxx077cf1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7609/laxxxxxx003hd9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7730/laxxxxxx046vu9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

[faceofflax15]

Lancer, your stance appears to be very similar to my stance earlier in the regular high school season. I'm constantly tweaking my stance to get it just perfect, I was quite happy with the stance that was like yours, but I tweaked it even more.

[settam11]

when is the new blade comeing out anyone know

[faceofflax15]

Hopefully never..





late this fall.

[lancerlax3]

Lancer, your stance appears to be very similar to my stance earlier in the regular high school season. I'm constantly tweaking my stance to get it just perfect, I was quite happy with the stance that was like yours, but I tweaked it even more.

ya i like it a lot......the only thing i changed since the season is that i stagger my left foot back just a little further to help get lower.

btw i found a few more fastbreak pics

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9517/laxxxxxx023jw8.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/436/laxxxxxx026ap6.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1666/laxxxxxx057zo6.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1716/laxxxxxx030tp3.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/>

[faceofflax15]

I've been so against Moto, for so long. And so for my under-over technique. but I've been messing with moto, and its soo easy to punch the left hand.
I wanted to test it out with our other FO man today at practice, but he couldn't come. So I tested it out with our other other face off man, who isn't very good, and I can't tell if I like it more. So unless the other FO man, shows up to rec league tomorrow, I have to wait till saturday pre game, or weds practice to try out moto for a bit, because the competition at rec isn't too good..

[GBaschski]

It's all about preference. My travel team coach straight up refuses to let me use moto grip when I'm with him because he always faced off with flip grip and he thinks moto is just a bad habit. Well I've tried both ways extensively and I can see a noticeable increase in speed and power when I go moto. So I suggest everybody tries out both grips and you can find out which one suits you the best.

[faceofflax15]

I'm sticking with Flip grip. tried out moto today, it's not that different, but when i win it really clean I flip it up into the air to myself, and in moto There isn't enouhg time to flip my hands back, because i flip it the same way Geoff does.

[laxkid891]

ZOMG FAST B?REAK!
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v110/146/105/24409238/n24409238_31716710_2963.jpg
can u say uber-PWNZORZ...lyk omg

anywho, those killa beez stuff looks sick homie

[Thomson#1]

lancerlax is the king of fast breaks... period.

[Sir_Jimmy_Page]

just a question, does the type of pocket have an effect on the f/o?

i used a razer pro with a standard mesh stringing last year, but i only started actually taking faceoffs midway through the year because a lot of our middies missed a lot of games, (during the beginning when we were looking for faceoff guys i used moto grip... suffice it to say i didn't do too well) once i switched my grip i started winning about 70%,

i am by no means a faceoff expert, however, and im wondering if the corner pocket i put into my razer pro will interfere?, i dont think it will matter, but im not sure... or will taking faceoffs with it screw with the pocket?

[RIT37FO]

just a question, does the type of pocket have an effect on the f/o?

i used a razer pro with a standard mesh stringing last year, but i only started actually taking faceoffs midway through the year because a lot of our middies missed a lot of games, (during the beginning when we were looking for faceoff guys i used moto grip... suffice it to say i didn't do too well) once i switched my grip i started winning about 70%,

i am by no means a faceoff expert, however, and im wondering if the corner pocket i put into my razer pro will interfere?, i dont think it will matter, but im not sure... or will taking faceoffs with it screw with the pocket?

no the pocket doenst matter. there are some "tweaks" to a face off stick but no pocket will hurt you (rock-it pocket excluded)

[laxkid891]

Ok, well I have decided that this upcoming season that I'd like to try take more faceoffs. So, thanks to the help of 'stin (stinisonfire) I got the mp3 of the faceoff whistle downloaded and on my ipod. I have been using that to practice alot of faceoffs for the last couple of days. Heres my problem though, I can't find a stance that feels right for me. I was taking faces with my right foot up between my arms near the throat of my head and my left foot back to push off of, but I feel that that is slowing me down some. So, I looked at J-rags(RIT37FO) picture in the beginning of this thread to see how his stance was. I mimicked that one but my right arm is always hitting/rubbing my knee and I feel as if it is an uncomfortable position as well. I'm stuck right now between a rock and a hard place because I don't have a comfortable stance and I feel that is effecting me. What I'm looking for is some advice on different stances that some of you guys use. I feel my faceoff practice would be much better if I had a stance that I would be using to faceoff. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and feel free to pm me or im me at pbclax1 with any info at all! All advice is appreciated.

[RIT37FO]

i wouldnt look at my stance I am always switching it to better suit the situation (while not showing my move) but i do it to stop a fast break or to adapt to someone who is beating me . i normally have my right foot right next to my hand and have my left foot outside and back from my left shoulder
but thats just me

[faceofflax15]

I have my right foot, Pointed at my opponent, very close to the ball, so close that the toe of my foot is touching my glove, my elbow is touching my knee. my left foot is like 5-6inches more than shoulder width, and 5ish inches lower then my right foot, and pointed upfield. my left hand/arm is slightly higher than middle of my shaft, and my arm is about in the center of my body.. I use my legs for power on my faceoffs.

[jedimasterPIMP]

Stance reading is hard, i wouldn't read the stance as much as a few select parts of the body. The easiest thing for me to do is to read his helmet. When you get down if you feel his helmet is leaning forward and is more over the ball and is pretty low, he is going to jam. I guess it also takes just some straight intuition.

I actually have my left foot more back in my stance, it makes it easier to step down the line. My right foot is more toward the line and every part of my body has a little bend to it.

[faceofflax15]

I think obviously, the easies thing is the left hand.. Wrists, and Elbow. Often times if they are bouncing slightly in their stance, they are going to jump.

I actually don't really think reading the jump is that nescesary. I've gotton it down so if I see someone is jumping, i can either still beat them with my plunger or have the reaction time and quickness to rake/lazer out.

[laxkid891]

Alright guys, thanks alot for the help. I think I have found a nice comfortable stance thanks to the help of Faceofflax15 and my boy RIT37FO. Thanks alot guys

[GBaschski]

Here's a question...Is it possible to push the ball forward on a guy who steps to get in front of you really well? Do you guys have a certain technique for it, or do you just pull the ball behind or down the line when someone is stepping really well?

[jedimasterPIMP]

a good enough plunger can beat a really hard step, but everything about what you do has to be perfect. If they are stepping that hard that means they know you want to go forward with it so just switch it up on them and put it behind you because it will probably open up the fast break later.

[faceofflax15]

Yeah, you can still do it. Simply put; Your going to have to walk it down the line futhure, and your going to have to do it faster.

Or you can put it behind you once or twice and then they will try to get it and then bam, forward for the break.

[cbhslacrossemid]

if the person is stepping you can keep the ball pinched in the throat and draw around his foot before you pop it up

[faceofflax15]

Also, depending on how they step, and how accurate they are, you can plunge through their legs...

[laxkid891]

Is there any pros and cons to using the normal flip grip compared the moto grip? I feel i get more power in my clamps and plungers through moto style and i really like it, i was wondering if there is any cons to using moto

[Valaxman17]

depends do you plunge forward and scoop or do you geoff snider it and pop it up and catch it i fond that moto slows me down when i pop it up to myself so i stay flip but its all prefference

[laxkid891]

depends do you plunge forward and scoop or do you geoff snider it and pop it up and catch it i fond that moto slows me down when i pop it up to myself so i stay flip but its all prefference
oh ok i see what your saying...i like to do both...i dont know which one i prefer to do though, the plunge and scoop or the pop to myself

[Valaxman17]

i do both as well but i find that with flip i can do both easily but then moto i cant do the pop to myself as easi;ly so i stay flip cas you csnt change your grip for each move you know

[laxkid891]

i do both as well but i find that with flip i can do both easily but then moto i cant do the pop to myself as easi;ly so i stay flip cas you csnt change your grip for each move you know
Yea, because changing your grip would give away the move that you are gonna do after you do it once. I think im gonna start using flip grip instead of moto grip because the flip grip seems more universal. I only used moto grip because I felt that it gave my more power in my clamps. Is there any way to get that same feeling using flip grip?

[faceofflax15]

I won't even lie, you can get more power using moto, slightly more. not that much.

But I Geoff Snider it when I can, so i use my flip, and my second move is a lot better for me in flip. If you feel a lot more comftorable in moto, use it.

[veronalax33]

this is quite possibly the greatest thread i've ever read.

ever.

[veronalax1219]

this thing is sweet! im ognna go practice it now

[laxkid891]

I won't even lie, you can get more power using moto, slightly more. not that much.

But I Geoff Snider it when I can, so i use my flip, and my second move is a lot better for me in flip. If you feel a lot more comftorable in moto, use it.
Ok man, thanks for that advice, im gonna stick with moto cause i do feel more comfortable in it. Thanks for all of your help.

[IL JOE S]

IL's instructional videos with Paul Cantabene.

http://tv.insidelacrosse.com/index.cfm?video=150 (http://tv.insidelacrosse.com/index.cfm?video=150)

http://tv.insidelacrosse.com/index.cfm?video=149 (http://tv.insidelacrosse.com/index.cfm?video=149)

[faceofflax15]

Any one else notice how when A.Smith goes for a fight for the ball, he doesn't go for the knee of his opponent like I, or most face-off men do, he just puts his head very close to the heads/ball, and right over it so they can't see it.. Havn't seen that.

[GBaschski]

I think it's just his way of getting as low as he can and digging in. Seems like it works, anyway.

[faceofflax15]

Yeah, clearly its just to get better positioning, just never tried it, and never seen anyone try it on me, or anything of the such-- but I may be trying it, depending on how well they protect their knee/fight for the ball

[laxkid891]

yea i actually noticed that too, he doesnt try to take out his opponent, he just 'takes out' their view of the ball...if u try it out FO15, let us know how it goes

[faceofflax15]

Yeah, I kind of really want to think into this, try to combine my triving my facebask/brill of my helmet into their knee combined with his block out the view of the ball, it be deadly.. Maybe If I could get my shoulder where his head is, and my helmet into his knee,... I don't know, I'm gonna think into this.

[laxkid891]

yea man, most definately, that would be deadly. once u take him out though, you wouldnt really need to block his view on the ball would you?

[faceofflax15]

yea man, most definately, that would be deadly. once u take him out though, you wouldnt really need to block his view on the ball would you?

Well, its more like a fight, it doesn't always completly move them off the ball, just a slight push them off, makes them lose leverage, so making him lose postioning and leverage and then blocking the ball, genious.




Isn't the thrusting of your helmet's visor into your opponent's body (specifically knee) some serious unnecessary roughness? Yeah, yeah, I know the whole "if y'ain't cheatin' y'ain't tryin'" mantra you guys've got going here, but this is more serious than a hand on the plastic.
No, that isn't cheating what so ever. This is just purely for better body positioning [It will get them off the ball], and its for the ball. i've never even considered driving my helmet into their knee anything near unnecessary roughness.. I've actually never known a face-off man to object to it, it's a great move, and you'd love it if you did it fast enough and efficiently.
It's just a part of the game, no ref would ever call it, because it's not UNR...

[faceofflax15]

It truly is, unless your an expirenced, fairly decent, face off man--You won't understand. More things are legal at the X that aren't legal anywhere else on the field. It doesn't cause that much pain, its more so the fact that once you get a helmet into your knee, your going to move your knee back, giving me way more leverage and you way less.. It's just simply, a great legal move.

[delbylax7]

Does anyone have the whistle mp3 that they cna send to me

[faceofflax15]

Search the boards, someone posted a link to it..

Where you on Delbys JV or V?

[GBaschski]

Putting your helmet into someone's knee isn't a tactic meant to hurt or injure them, its meant to push their knee backwards, which will force them to stand up, which gives you a huge advantage in positioning over the ball. I don't know many guys who go out to the face-off X with the sole purpose of injuring their opponent (though we've all heard the horror stories about guys sticking razor blades under the brill of their helmet and cutting people's knees open).

Anyway, I don't put my helmet into the knee when I'm locked up. I do more of an Alex Smith kind of move and position my body over the ball. But as they say...its all preference.

[faceofflax15]

I've never heard of anyone putting my blades there... But wow, thats terrid.

I'm really going to figure out how to do a combo of my helmet to knee and alex smiths body over ball.

[faceofflax15]

MMM, I love faceoffsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[Valaxman17]

like ZOMG SO DO I

[laxfan25]

More things are legal at the X that aren't legal anywhere else on the field. It doesn't cause that much pain, its more so the fact that once you get a helmet into your knee, your going to move your knee back, giving me way more leverage and you way less.. It's just simply, a great legal move.
Is this your own re-write of the rulebook? Maybe a ref who's a retard wouldn't call it, but wiser ones might consider it one of the following violations -
Body Checking
SECTION 15. Body checking of an opponent in possession of the ball or
within 5 yards of a loose ball, from the front or side above the waist and below the neck, is legal.

Illegal Body Check
SECTION 4. Illegal body checking includes the following actions:
b. The body checking of an opponent from the rear or at or below the
waist.

e. The blocking of an opponent with the head or initiating contact with the head, known as “spearing.” A minimum of a one-minute nonreleasable penalty shall be assessed for spearing. A three-minute nonreleasable penalty shall be assessed if the spearing was violent.
If you don't think it's something I'm looking at, here is a clip from the training guide that I give to new officials -

Watch that the face-off middies don’t crash the other middie with an illegal body check
· NO contact with the head!
· No leading with THEIR head – spearing!
· No body checks of player on the ground – two feet only!

But then again, I forget that there is a separate rulebook for face-off wizards.

[faceofflax15]

Is this your own re-write of the rulebook? Maybe a ref who's a retard wouldn't call it, but wiser ones might consider it one of the following violations -

If you don't think it's something I'm looking at, here is a clip from the training guide that I give to new officials -



But then again, I forget that there is a separate rulebook for face-off wizards.

I've never seen anyone get called for it. Ever. And most faceoff men do it, whether on purpose or accidental.

[Valaxman17]

I've never seen anyone get called for it either it might be in there laxfan but most refs let it go because its a common thing at the face off x

[faceofflax15]

Any thing new in your guy's face-off worlds?

[GBaschski]

Waiting for fallball to start so I can start going crazy. I've only recently become a "push the ball forward for a fastbreak and then score and steal the other face-off guy's girlfriend" kinda face-off man, so I'm excited to try out my new moves against the local competition (which isn't very much competition).

[pantherLax]

I got alot better over the summer with my form, especially the step and i also now have more moves that i can go to. My jump got much better too. And I dont know if the F-off will be good but i just wanna try it out.

[faceofflax15]

Waiting for fallball to start so I can start going crazy. I've only recently become a "push the ball forward for a fastbreak and then score and steal the other face-off guy's girlfriend" kinda face-off man, so I'm excited to try out my new moves against the local competition (which isn't very much competition).

hah, that's the best face-off style to have :naughty:.

[lslaxer]

Do you guys ever use different moves based on the type of field you're playing on? I just realized our home games will all be on turf, and it just got me thinking about whether any moves were more effective on turf compared to grass?

[GBaschski]

The only thing I notice is that when the grass is really bumpy and uneven and what not its hard to pick up the gb's and sometimes I'll miss them all together. It should just be extremely easy to pick up groundballs on turf.

[lslaxer]

Yeah, and I guess just take into consideration the speed of the ball, because you might not want to push too far ahead.

[faceofflax15]

Naw, I don't..

well actually, there is this one field, Novi high school, and we play a couple games their each season, one there for KVC conference game, and one for regionals a lot.. and they have a like...ditch that is like.. 6 inches wide, 2 feet long, and 3 inches deep.. so I've jumped and slide on that because sometimes it's hard to plunge on it..

But for the most part no, just how i have to grab the gb

[lslaxer]

What does it mean when people are practicing with a wall? Or, what is the point of lining up by a wall, if that is what you do? Could someone please explain?

[GBaschski]

Well one thing I notice when I'm practicing my moves, is that it's A LOT easier to plunger the ball forward when there's an object infront of your stick to press against (like the other person's stick in a game). So usually if I'm outside working on plunger+shooting, I'll face-off against a shoe or a bucket or something just so that I can get an accurate plunger going on.

[Valaxman17]

I HAVE 2 NEW BLADES NOW YAY

[faceofflax15]

I don't. I have a new clutch.

I didn't know iska8epopwar [somthing like that on TLF], played for a JV team by me.. Took some faces against me this pass weekend.

[Valaxman17]

How'd he do against you?

[cmurflax02]

i agree with manup
goalies are the craziest

[manup5183]

i agree with manup
goalies are the craziest

A little delayed but appreciated none the less. Coming from a former NorCal Vail team FOGO who is now playing at a high level goalie. I have to say, goalies are most definetly crazier.:nut:

I do miss the X though...:concerned

[faceofflax15]

Don't remember, He faced against me sunday too.. Might as well ask him yourself :]:]:]

Haha, fun, I'm slowly teaching him a few more tricks of the trade. Maybe he can be their alternating FO man for their varsity this year, I have one of my 2 face-off protegies [sp], on his varsity team and he is becoming pretty good, Nick diegel.

[GBaschski]

Any of you guys doing any fall recruiting tournaments?

[faceofflax15]

OSU 7 on 7, I guess UND and OSUs reps are going to be there, and probaly more but them for sure.

[stinch38]

For high school ball, is it Down, set, whistle or just down, whistle. I cant remember which one it is.

[lslaxer]

For high school ball, is it Down, set, whistle or just down, whistle. I cant remember which one it is.

Down, whistle.

Today in indoor I faced this guy who was really good, and every time he would plunger it moto style and go forward for the fast break. It was embarrassing. The two-finger worked for a little, but otherwise I couldn't do anything. What is the best way to beat this?

[pantherLax]

Jump and try to stop his plunger or clamp down the line, toward your right...either way make sure you step with your right leg big.

[faceofflax15]

Jump, Slide, push it backwards, by slidding you will be in position to stop him or the ball.


Not my best day at the X, my Game stick was at home and I hadn't been home since yesterday 5ish, so I used my back-up.. Going from a really used flexi blade to a really stiff new clutch is quite the difference.

[GBaschski]

Hah lslaxer you just described my style perfectly. A lot of people try to throw a big step in front of me so I can't get the fastbreak, though it usually doesn't work. Practicing Jamming, a lot.

[faceofflax15]

It's not that hard to plunge faster than their step..


There really is no quick fix to beat him, just practice your moves, get better and faster, and beat him.

[GBaschski]

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes the step will trip me up and slow me down or something, but you're probably not going to stop me. Like faceofflax said, the best way to beat someone is to be faster than them, and that just comes from loads of practice.

[faceofflax15]

A step trips me most of the time, but I'm so used to it now, I'll either regain my balance fast, or do a finger touch to the ground and explode towards the ball and still get my fast-break... You're best bet is to go helmet to knee, or knee to knee... I have bad knees.

[Valaxman17]

i have bad knees as well in the one fall ball game ive gotten to play in i won all the faceoffs i took but on one the guy exploded forward to the right and took out my knee hurt like a female dog but he got called for it
and if someone just puts there leg out i can usually get around it as faceoff and gbaschki said it trips me up a little but a lot of the time it doesnt do anything major

[faceofflax15]

Haha, I've had bad knees all my life, been to physical therapy twice for it, a helmet to the knee really doesn't hurt that much in my opinion, just moves it back, it's knee to knee collisions that really hurt me..

[Valaxman17]

i hurt my knees skiing and it depends if its just a helmet to the knee it hurts but not horribly like not rediculous but i feel it knee to knees hurt more and i was saying like he dove at my legs and hit my knees not just a helmet to the knees like a chop block

[stinch38]

What are some of the best heads out there besides the old blade for the plunger?

[pantherLax]

At the camp i went to the UMass F/Oman said to take a big step, whatever move you do...I'm sure when you get to that level where everyone is fast and everyones step is fast, a step can maybe block a plunger attempt.

But for us high schoolers, what does the step do?

[Valaxman17]

step right correct?
it can help you cover the ball so that if neither of you gets the initial clamp you can get leverage. and it would slow them down a little on the eplunger

A big thing ive seen from watching the collge fogos is everyone punches there left hand almost 90 degrees I've always done this to an extent probably to like 45 degrees and it has helped me a lot and im now tryig to get into punching it further forward but most opponents ive faced do not punch there hand very drastically at all more like 25 degrees

[lslaxer]

[QUOTEdddddddddd

[Valaxman17]

i step with my right when i push it backwards basically so if i jump it like faceofflax whhich ive been trying since he showed the vid in here i step and if i am popping i tback i usually will step

[GBaschski]

I'll step when I'm putting the ball behind, or trying to jam a guy up. However, if I'm trying to plunger the ball forward, I definitely don't step. When you're putting the ball forward, trying to get a fast break, you want to be able to get out of your stance as fast as possible to go pick up the ball. If you step you're just putting yourself out of position to get the ball.

[Valaxman17]

exactly what i said except yours was more straight forward haha

[isk8apopwar]

yeah, the helmet-to-knee is a pretty good move, but I rarely use it, cuz kids never try to turn that what on me if they have the ball.

[faceofflax15]

Congrats on your first W against me Ian. Haha. Lax this past weekend was so Jank. Wasn't my best day, guess that's whay four hours of football before it will do to you--and two different people, Swartz and Hicks saying down set whistle, will get to ya.

[isk8apopwar]

Congrats on your first W against me Ian. Haha. Lax this past weekend was so Jank. Wasn't my best day, guess that's whay four hours of football before it will do to you--and two different people, Swartz and Hicks saying down set whistle, will get to ya.


thanks man, yeah they both seem to battle for who blows the whistle. But I was only doing good at faceoffs this weekend, I got rocked at 1v1 if you didn't notice.

[GBaschski]

You guys seen the UNC highlight vid on Inside Lacrosse? Shane Walterhoefer is siiick.

http://tv.insidelacrosse.com/index.cfm?video=371

[faceofflax15]

I generally don't do warm-ups with everyone haha. I go down and warm up goalies.

[pooponashingle]

Has anyone used any off the new heads to face off? How the flexibility of them?

[RIT37FO]

ive been using a F-off for most of fall ball its less flexible than the original blade but i wouldn't call it stiff by any means. Also the scoop is much improved like a evo pro scoop as well as a shorter throat to get closer to the head

[bulldog24]

do you feel like there is that much of an advantage from the shorter sidewall? also how would it fare playing shifts of regular offensive and defensive midfield?

[laxkid891]

so guys, random post here...im pretty happy, went 10-11 on faceoffs at my fall game yesterday.....so whats new in the faceoff world:thumbsup:

[footlax]

I am thinking of using a swerve as a face-off stick, due to its obscene flexibility. I discovered that one can clamp, and while keeping the head still, you can move the shaft upwards and sweep the ball behind your legs.
Anyone else notice this?

[Rizzle]

Ok uh, quick question for all you face-off gurus.

Almost every time I face of with my E3 (strung with 6d if this has anything to do with it) the ball is gettting stuck in the lower part of the head between the sidewall and the sidewall mesh. As a result, penalty almost each time if I can't get it out fast enough. So, what do I do to fix this?

[RIT37FO]

do you feel like there is that much of an advantage from the shorter sidewall? also how would it fare playing shifts of regular offensive and defensive midfield?


really i dont think its to big of a deal atleast i dont notice anything. the pinch i put on it is why i like the head so much. i think the head works fine at any possition but i would recomend the blade 2.0 over it then

[RIT37FO]

I am thinking of using a swerve as a face-off stick, due to its obscene flexibility. I discovered that one can clamp, and while keeping the head still, you can move the shaft upwards and sweep the ball behind your legs.
Anyone else no