Short Stick Defence in the top

[laxlover8]

I am currently playing middies and I face a lot of dodges from the top.
I think it is quite difficult for me to do short stick defence...
my man just using change of direction to dodge me if I follow him, but if I stand still, he just so easy to pass the ball away...sometimes he even shoot in front of me which make me so difficult to stop...

I know I must keep a stick distance from my man, but what I should do when if i face my man? where should my stick be placed? point to him? or just hold it like cradling horizontally? and how should my footwork be? I saw the short stick defence video in insidelacrosse but what I can see is that they run really fast...

[MaddxLax]

well im not a middie, but i will tell u what i do know...u asked if u keep your stick down or out and the answer is keep your stick up kind of like your about to do a poke check, then your guy knows your watching him and he wont be able to dodge to the cage as easily. u want to shuffle with your guy kinda of and dont let him body up on you too close. unless your playing someone with bad stick protection, you dont really want to "jump" your guy and try and get the ball. your job is just to keep him from going to the cage, he will get passes off so dont worry too much about that. just pressure your guy and prevent him from dodging and scoring, if your doing this, your doing your job.

[laxlover8]

what if "his bofy up on me too close"? Do I push him away from me? but if I push him, I would lose my position and soon he can dodge

[raykessler]

what if "his bofy up on me too close"? Do I push him away from me? but if I push him, I would lose my position and soon he can dodge


body up on him, most people will pull out once they think youv bodyd up on them, they don't want to risk having the ball taken away from them. Also remember always to force them to the outside, once they see they don't have the angle for a shot anymore most won't try for it.

[Laxmann019]

force him to go to the outside. The farther outside he goes the less of an angle shot he has. Also if he winds up trying to get you to bite on the shot fake then knock him on his arse

[MAlax42]

Don't get beat topside.

As a pole, I'd really love for my middies to remember that. Unfortunately, they don't. That's probably why we were 7-7 last year.

[laxgod1790]

Don't get beat topside.

As a pole, I'd really love for my middies to remember that. Unfortunately, they don't. That's probably why we were 7-7 last year.

Well technically if the middie is dodging from the top he gets beat topside either way. If he was dodging from the side that would be another story. Its also very hard to stop a guy going topside with only a shortie.

[UTlax31]

One of the main things that you want to remember is that you need to force him down the side. When he is coming right at you from the top YOU need to pick a side and make him go that way. Dont let him choose which way to go. the way you do this is if you want him to go left, turn your body so that your right shoulder is closest to the cage and you are facing the sideline. you really need to turn almost completely sidewise. hold your stick horizontal and be ready to push with it. when you stand like this you make very hard for him to go right and he will have to go left. when he starts to go down the side you need to push on his hip and force him all the way down the side. When you force him this way you have the benefit of the slide and it is a much harder angle to shoot from. When he goes to pass the ball, lift up on his bottom hand. I love it when a middie can play defense cause it makes it easier for me not to have to worry about them. If you dont understand let me know and i will try to explain it better.

[MaVeRiCk05]

i keep my cross on the guy and force em to the outside, some might see this as cross checking but i never ever get called cz i dotn do like a benchpress motion with my stick
o and as a middie stick with wrap and lift checks but conservative with wrap checks knowing when to use them

[NHlax13]

Simple Rules unless your running a special deffense from the top funnel you man to the out side and never give up the middle. Pokes are OK but I feel it is better to get a lift on the hands as the middie gets ready to shoot or pass. The one thing to be careful of when funneling the player to the out side is the roll back and quick shot. Also if you make contact with the offensive midde realize tha ha has already gained a step on you so you must drop step down and in to regain a controlling position.

[pantherLax]

Whats it mean to be "beat topside"?

[NHlax13]

topside is when you are usally taking about the attack position and longstick defenders. If the attackamn is coming form behind the cage the long pole does not want them to gain the advantage on the top side . the defender wants the player to stay lower them then and roll back to the cage producing a angle that is better for the goalie and more help on defense if you are running COMA slide.

[LaxCheck101]

well the best thing to do is to keep a stick distance away but if your man gets up in your face, take a step back, put your hands together and push him away. But be sure not to overcommit. Throw poke checks when he's coming right at your and lift the bottom hand if he gets by you

[stegmakk]

I play LSM but remember days from playing shorty...

as has been said you want to funnell the guy charging at you...try to get him to go down his weak side...but if you cant do that just make sure he doesnt come down the middle...
now if he has a step on you that is ok as long as you keep your stick on his hands (bottom)...dont worry about poke checks just focus on lifting his hands at the right time (pass/shot)...
if you can force your man to pass or shoot poorly then that is fine...if you stop your mans drive (meaning turn him out and get him to pass) this is fine too...you just dont want him driving down the lane and getting a good shot off.

[CaptMDG]

A couple of ideas...

Try to take away his strong hand and funnel him down the alley using his weak hand (very traditional, basic and still a great concept). Secondly, a middie's short stick is useless as a "defensives weapon" because it will not give you the reactionary distance a long pole does. You have to play strictly basketball defense on him. Man up on your opponent and once you make physical contact on him -DO NOT, I say, DO NOT let him go. Most offensive middies at this time will roll away from you and pass the pass to someone else.

[WickedDpole21]

dont try to stop him. just run with him and kill his hands if he tries to pass or shoot. run him staright into a longpole's slide. or just ride him to th outside and cut away his angle. its very hard as a shortpole to stop someone one v one. just try this and u wont get scored on. just except that u might get beat, and think a step or two ahead.

[dpole4life]

Basically as a middie on defense, you are making sure that he does not get passed you, or that you at least slow him down. if he shoots, it should be an outside shot, and as long as you have an aware goalie, that is all you can do. stripping the ball and not letting him shoot are two things on your second-priority list.

The best information that i can give you for where your stick should be...the man is probably going to dodge too early to poke or slap with a short stick, so keep it paralell to the ground and out in front of you if he is coming straight at you, and follow his driving shoulder ( slow him down as much as possible without loosing your footwork). if he is making sideways cuts, or diagonal cuts with the ball, murder his hands, and push him out when he gets to close to you.

Middie defense is all about pushing your man to the wings, and slowing him down.

[Scrudatoboys]

alright....first you have to "tell" your man where to go, you choose what sides he's going to. Don't be a afraid push him thats whats going to get him off balance, he can't make a pass if he's being pushed.

Also some advice...time his cradle, once he comes back with the stick throw a poke right at the head of the stick and the ball will be out. Also TWO HANDS ON THE STICK AT ALL TIMES... one hand checks will look nice IF you land them but they aren't accurate and also its pretty much an automatic penalty


pm if you have more questions

[sharpshooterFTW]

i've done about every position on defense. lsm, close d, middie. with long poles it's really easy to get a hold of a guy dodging topside, you throw a poke and they make a dicision on which way they're going, if not the ball is no longer theirs.

with short sticks it's a little more difficult. the key word is distance. and this is where judgment comes in and plays a key role. too little and he'll knock your socks off dwirling his stick. too much and you're his screen for the goalie. i'm assuming by dodging topside you mean he's trying to iso, in which case you backpedal with him, closing the distance steadily. your stick should be ready to make a check (poke or wrap) and if you see it possible, give him a lane and try and force him to commit to a side. if not you should be ready to run with him.

on the occasion in which you aren't able to commit him to a side, and he makes his own decision, you should be ready to just get your stick in his way, and keep with him. yes he may get a shot off, or he may pass. but chances are the shot won't be where he wanted it (because your stick was in his way) or the pass could be off the mark. the fact that you made him pass, made him far less of a threat, because now fellow d men are able to slide with ease, and you get somewhat of a breather (because not too many people are the 1 slide from topside)

[laxlover8]

Which principles is more important, 1. Force him to his weaker hand or 2. dominate the middle and push him to sideline?

Given I am a right hander, and I am defending a middie from top right side (my back is facing the goal)

so if the middie I am defending is a lefty, so by principle 1, I should stand so that I force him to go his right side using his right hand. But by principle 2, I should stand facing sideline letting him using his left hand. What should I do?

Personally I prefer to force him to the sideline even in this case he can use his strong hand, do I choose it right?

But if I I prefer to force him to the sideline, then I got another problem. Recall that my dominant hand is right hand, so if I push my guy to sideline, my stick head is pointing to the goal but not pointing to mideline. This is contrary to what Joe Ceglia said

"It means you have the head of your stick towards the midfield line and your butt end towards the goalie. For example, if you are covering a dodger going down the field’s left hand side, the head of your stick should be to your right (hence pointing to the midfield line). If the dodger is going down the right hand side of the field your stick should be to your left (hence pointing to the midfield line). "

I can't follow Cegila's principle unless I switch my hand to my left hand and hence, I can point the stick head to midline. For a righty middie like me to defend on top right, what can I stop my guy rolling back if my stick head is not pointing the midline? (it is quite strange to use the butt to prevent him from rolling back right?)

[shakerlax222225]

play basketball defence, and force hit to the outside with your stick on his hips

[stjoeslax010]

force him to his offhand side make sure he doesnt beat you to a good shooting spot try to bring him close to a dpole so the slides easier

[laxlover8]

Back paddle even if I split the middle, my feet facing the sideline?

And I want to know the details in a d shorty's footwork. When channeling my dodger, do I run hip to hip or shuffle? And if he want to roll back to the middle if I am channel him to the side, what kinds of footwork should I use in order to stop his inside roll? Shuffle?

[the next 'one']

okay i didnt read all the posts so i will probably repeat some things...

i also play middie up top and face alot of dodges, so here is how i generally play one-on-one D.

the first and one of the most important things is to force him one way. it will probably not take you long in the game to figure out which hand he is, so obviously you want to force him to his off hand. if he is a righty, force him to his left (your right). and vice versa for a lefty. to do this you set up facing the sideline, not up the field. you want him to run in front of you. when setting up (this is for INTIMIDATION) keep your head up and look him in the eyes, almsot inviting him to come dodge on you. keep your chest out and hips stable, with your stick out and ready to annhialate.

When he starts dodging on you, you want him to get a step on you. it sounds iffy but you really do want to play his back shoulder. by playing his front, you give him the option of rolling back inside and coming into the middle from the top again, which is the LAST thing you want to happen. by getting behind him (not directly, just a little off the side) you can ultimately control him. when you keep him from rolling back inside on top, you keep him running down the side, which greatly decreases his angle to shoot with every step. if he were to try to get inside under you, you should have a slide coming to easily pick him up. there should be no way he can get to the middle of the field.

DO NOT TRY TO TAKE AWAY!!!!

^^^ this is the most important thing i've learned. i used to always go for the takeaway check like an over the head. i had the positioning right and timing and all, but once i got to his back shoulder i would fall for the bait and swing for his stick. once i got out of this habit, my defense skills have skyrocketed.


the whole let him in front of you seems really weird to alot of people. technically you are not actually behind him. you just want to make sure you don't give him the option of rolling back to the middle on top of you. you have to get to the spot where you stop him from getting under or over you to the middle, so you can keep pushing him to the outside.

a middie's job on one-on-one defense is to make the dodger pass the ball away.

[ItalyLaxer11]

I play middie and being a former attackman, i'm not particularly gifted on D. However, from my experience it sounds like your going to much for the big play. Rather than trying to put a big body or takeaway check on him(thus putting you into a position where he can easily dodge you), try getting into a good defensive stance him, placing small checks on his thighs and stick to constantly remind him that he's under pressure. This should force him to the outside, putting him in a position where he can't make a scoring opportunity for himself(unless he wants to try a really far outside shot with little time). Chances are he'll try and pass(which will cause an end to the transition play ya'll were playing) to a teammate on the wing(which is where your longpoles will come in and try and make a play. If he hesitates in making this pass, then is the time that you should go for a big stick or body check, as he has no options left and we'll likely have to try and beat u in a circumstance where you have the advantage.
I posted this in the D-tips sticky, and while it might not exactly pertain to your problem, it might help some

[QBYattackmen15]

well you cant exect to not even let him get a poass to the wing or something. thats kinda a victory on your part, you stopped him from getting to the cage. but i mean, go to ILTV on this website, watch the benson Erwin videos. talks all about good body position.

[Laxer123321]

I am a middie, and when I play defense, I make sure to do a couple of things.
1) I break down into an athletic position
2) I put my bottom hand on the bottom of my stick and my top hand right on top of it. This allows you to push your man out with out getting called for cross checking. It also allows you to throw a check or two, because you have some shaft to work with.
3) If I know the kid, I know his strong hand, so I take it away. If you don't know the kid, just play him straight up.
4) Do not, I repeat, do not, just throw a couple of wrap checks. A good middie will take you to the house, and you will end up giving him a good 8 yard shot on the run. Just do what I said previously, and push him down the alley, and his angle will decrease. He will either take a low percentage shot, or pass it to an attackman.
A little reminder...
-If you do want to throw some checks, throw a good hard slap check on his bottom hand. It sends a message that your not going to back down. If you can time it right, it can effect his pass or shot.
-Also, sometimes you can get under his bottom hand and throw a good lift check, and dislodge the ball.
-The only time I throw wrap checks is if I think the middie has shaky stick skills, or if it is a long pole. You can also pull out the wrap check if the middie has a step on you, but do not rely on the wrap check.
I hope this helps.

[J_GLax33]

make them go to their weak hand nd keep pushing them out to a bad shot...and never give up