Victorian Refs III

[Minotaur]

I completely agree with you Mr. Moderator....BUT, Keep it consistant. There has been plenty of slander, both towards individuals and clubs in recent "International" threads, and no action taken. Where's your cut off point? This subject would actually be a great discussion if we ask the right questions...not aim at about specific individuals.

And one more thing, I think there my be an extra "cultural dynamic" here by having an American moderator overseeing this predominantly Australian/International forum. Just grist for the mill.....

[Corduroy]

Mino,

Maybe you could moderate. There'd be a compromise there right??

Let's not get all too precious. Maybe an 'Adult Only' forum need to be established. "Enter at own risk" Caution: This thread contains Adult Themes, Course Language and Occassional Drud Use".

....A bit more for the mill.

Roy.

[aussielax]

Apparently TLF is trying to stop members from arguing with each other i mean they banned any political debate from the open forum. So i really don't think the 3rd try at a thread were we are all going to argue with each other about which ref is a bigger tool is going to last long

[fairy]

I think expressions of opinion re the skill levels of ref and suggestions for improvement could be a positive thing here on TLF-as long as writers are aware that most refs do the job to the best abilities under sometimes difficult circumstances. Lets face it-it is a thankless task and many club refs are there because they have to be, not coz they want to be.
Like it or not- no sport can happen without refs.

[KnightsLAXDad]

I completely agree with you Mr. Moderator....BUT, Keep it consistant. There has been plenty of slander, both towards individuals and clubs in recent "International" threads, and no action taken. Where's your cut off point? This subject would actually be a great discussion if we ask the right questions...not aim at about specific individuals.

And one more thing, I think there my be an extra "cultural dynamic" here by having an American moderator overseeing this predominantly Australian/International forum. Just grist for the mill.....

Bear with me here gentlemen, and I'll explain my position this one and only time.

First things first, I am Canadian, not American, and I am probably are more aware and sensitive to the "cultural dynamic" of the mostly Aussie forum than you give me credit for. As such, I mod with a lighter hand than most other because there is more of a "community" in this forum than in others. That is the main reason why I let some of the rivalry threads go further here than they would in other forums. As long as they don't slip into meaningless drivel, flaming or trolling then they can stay as "good natured rivalry". Baseless posts, and those that are targetted at those who are not here to refute the allegations, or those that are truly slanderous, are deleted.

As you said, if you "ask the right questions" then it's OK. The Victorian refs thread was posted in the most negative light - worst, biased, ugly - these are not quantifiable qualities. It is slanderous because this is a public forum, and those against whom these allegations are being raised are not here to refute them. The thread subject was simply and invitation to whine, moan and flame others. End of story.

TLF rules, which every here as member has agreed to follow when they sign up, are pretty clear. When a thread is closed, you don't reopen it, and you certainly don't call out the moderator for being "on his high horse". The poster got off relatively lightly as a new member who has yet to pick up the flow of the forums. Others would not have been so easy going. Also, "why did this get closed" threads are shut down, but because the posters in this forum (admittedly mostly Aussies) are generally good members and have earned respect, I don't mind posting this, and allowing a reasonable discussion this one time only. If you have issues, there are ways to express your opinion by PM'ing me first and then a Super Mod.


Cheers...KLD

[Minotaur]

Well done KnightsLaxDad. Thanks for the explaination. This thread could have the potential of being a very messy thread, but I think an intelligent debreif and discussion on the subject could be productive. The subject is Vic Refs fellas....who's the first cab off the rank?

[KnightsLAXDad]

I think that fairy has it spot on. Ref'ing is thankless job and unfortunately a lot of them are out there who are unprepared or inexperienced, or don't even really want to be there. We see it all the time here in box. It is frustrating when when you get refs who haven't had the luxury of being properly mentored by older, more experienced refs because there aren't enough to go around. Baptism by fire and they make lots of mistakes and are inconsistent. Certainly there are those who are good and the reality says there are some who are just plain bad.

Keep it to general terms of where things work or could use improvement (a.k.a the right questions) and maybe why things aren't as good as they could be. Do not let this turn into "Ref X is a wanker and he screwed us over" or this thread will end up like the others.


KLD.

[fightinirish]

How is the standard refereeing in victoria at the moment?

I know here in WA we have had two distinct styles throughout the year. To start the year the refs took a zero-tolerance approach, that was that any chatter whatsoever could result in an unsportsmanlike, even to the degree that you were just talking to the refs. This hit crisis point and there were meetings and the refs relaxed the rules and the standard over here is terrific now. We have a shortage at senior ranks but thos ethat are there are really really good.

[thunder_15]

i think i mite take this oppotunity to bring up the refing in melbourne for the under 15s this yr. i mean i definatly think the refering was horrible for some refs to be calling someone for a pre-check in under 15s is just pethetic. which is y i belive there needs to be alot more communication between the ref. like some times in WA for division1 the refs sometimes before the game say today we are going to focas alot on cross checking or something like that. Plus i would like to bring up the metro VS thunder pool game. someone recieved an illegal stick from metro which pritty much costed them the game. the thing which i was appalled about was that after the game the refs got abosolutly abused by the metro spectators. and accusing thunder for paying the refs is just rediculas

[pumba]

i think i mite take this oppotunity to bring up the refing in melbourne for the under 15s this yr. i mean i definatly think the refering was horrible for some refs to be calling someone for a pre-check in under 15s is just pethetic. which is y i belive there needs to be alot more communication between the ref. like some times in WA for division1 the refs sometimes before the game say today we are going to focas alot on cross checking or something like that. Plus i would like to bring up the metro VS thunder pool game. someone recieved an illegal stick from metro which pritty much costed them the game. the thing which i was appalled about was that after the game the refs got abosolutly abused by the metro spectators. and accusing thunder for paying the refs is just rediculas

that reffing was ridicolous! The two days i saw. The game was way to much stop start. It was as much as i hate to say BORING lacrosse, The ball would go up the feild and back with out a whistle being blowen. It was really apauling reffing.

[igloo dweller]

nice work KLD.

victorian SL refs: from the very few games i saw as a neutral observer, the standard of reffing this year in vic was pretty good. when you are either playing or watching your team, it's very difficult to evaluate ref's performance and stay partial. there will always be poor calls, just like we as players make poor plays.

we did have the 'zero tolerance' thing here too. it seemed to be more strictly enforced in the low standard standard games with mismatched teams - to the point where seeking clarrification on a general technical rule at halftime landed me in the box!

the eltham v willy games didnt seem to be as strict - perhaps the refs hold more respect for the higher standard player to question the umpires call, or the experience of the refs in these games was greater? i dunno.

[12345]

i think i mite take this oppotunity to bring up the refing in melbourne for the under 15s this yr. i mean i definatly think the refering was horrible for some refs to be calling someone for a pre-check in under 15s is just pethetic. which is y i belive there needs to be alot more communication between the ref. like some times in WA for division1 the refs sometimes before the game say today we are going to focas alot on cross checking or something like that. Plus i would like to bring up the metro VS thunder pool game. someone recieved an illegal stick from metro which pritty much costed them the game. the thing which i was appalled about was that after the game the refs got abosolutly abused by the metro spectators. and accusing thunder for paying the refs is just rediculas

Plucka duck, you're driving me nuts Sam,

"Might"
"Opportunity"
"Definitely"
"Refereeing"
"Pathetic"
"Believe"
"A lot"
"Focus"
"Pretty"
"Absolutely"
"Rediculous"

Go forth and prosper.

[thunder_15]

yeah my bad. thats y i left school

[fairy]

agree the standard of vic refereeing at the moment is pretty good- sometimes they have their off days as everyone does. the ref. admin body tried to accredit refs by running sessions around melbourne. some clubs supported these and their club refs got extra insight and education in the rules and their interpretations. it was an opportunity for more club members to train themselves and communicate with the refs. Not all clubs supported this tho by sending their people.
there are a couple of refs here who were very inflexible in their zero tolerance policy and this wooda been why igloo dweller landed in the box.

[aussielax]

Plucka duck, you're driving me nuts Sam,

"Might"
"Opportunity"
"Definitely"
"Refereeing"
"Pathetic"
"Believe"
"A lot"
"Focus"
"Pretty"
"Absolutely"
"Rediculous"

Go forth and prosper.

Yeah he needs Firefox 2 (http://www.download.com/Mozilla-Firefox/3003-2356_4-10208565.html?tag=toprated) with inbuilt spell-check it's worked wonders for me.

[fairy]

ridiculous

[12345]

ridiculous

Touche. Boy is my face red. Yeah, that's pretty god damn stupid, $10 fine.

[Hockeylax37]

I completely agree with the previous statements about the reffing at the U15's tournement, it was rediculous. The game was not allowed to flow at all. And i completely disagree with the entire ruling of the whole three meter thing. I mean, the rule wouldn't even allow the players to properly contest for the ball, and eventually the ref would just blow the whistle and call a penatly on whoever was going hardest for the ball. I think there was more contact in some of the girls games that i saw. Its one thing to call a blatent penatly, but to continually call harmless stickchecks, such as light pokes to the glove or just above or a light brush to the helmet -which a player would recieve a few warnings for a few years ago before anything would actually be called, to a point where it disrupts the entire flow of the game, just ruins the game.

[thunder_15]

hahaha nah u stole enough money off me in 17s. i practically paid for the coaches presents

[rubber balls]

The standard of refs is getting worse in Victoria.
It is not uncommon to watch a game only to see the final outcome being dictated by the calls of the refs.

The so-called 'zero tolerance' rule is a joke. It is widely understood that the ref's are not on the field to be abused and ridiculed however in any good relationship there must be two-way communication. If the refs expect to be respected and allowed to perform their duties then they too must respect the players on the field. Too many times have I seen players on the receiving end of a verbal outburst from the ref, usually following a mistake by the ref or when the ref has lost control of the game. The players are left with no means of reply without suffering further penalties.

And to see spectators and coaches being pinged for fouls for questioning a call during the heat of the game is ludicrous. If it continues there will soon be no spectators coming to the games, instead preferring to go to the netball or chess where at least they can enjoy the game and participate in the atmosphere.

Sure there are some good ref's who command respect on the field by not screaming at player, can handle a call without taking it as a personal attack and sending people off. They call it as they see it, not as the crowd/coaches yell it or by making it up.

However there are some ugly ones, who will not get named here, that need to review the way they conduct themselves on the field. They need to step down from their imaginary pedestals and get back to the job of ref'ing the games impartially and without creating conflict on the field.

I am sure that everyone will agree the best ref's are the ones you don’t notice, not the ones that you talk about for days after the game.

[fairy]

Much of what you comment on is fair, however I disagree that soon spectators will stop attending. They will always come to see the game- regardless of the refs.
Spectators cannot be pinged, but coaches can be asked to control them as the rules have always stated- there has been no change of rules- but are they are more rigorously enforced, to try to maintain and encourage new referees and to adhere to the International rules which LA play under.