Vic junior forum on Wed 22/11/06

[swankylaxer]

I thought we should discuss this forum. It is being held in relation to the proposed age and rule changes for Junior lax in Victoria in 2007. There are 2 main proposed changes, as I understand them.

The first is that the age groups will change to U/10,12,14,16 & 18's. This could help in a couple of ways with our junior programs.

Our junior programs will benefit from the age change because it will hopefully help clubs retain junior players for one more season and this may lead to these players staying on and playing seniors. As we all know juniors leave at this level for different reasons and the extra year of juniors might prepare more of them for seniors. I have seen alot of kids leave the game because they are not ready for seniors when they turn 17 either because they are not physically big enough or are not mentally ready. Some leave because they can no longer afford the fees or because they are to young to get a licence cannot get to and from the games.

The next reason I can see for these changes is that the younger kids who currently play in U11's will benefit from playing a slightly younger age group. We see 7 Y/o playing U11's alot and most of them cannot keep up with the 10 and 11y/o's. Making it U10's will help these younger kids to get more game time and more chance of getting a touch of the ball.

The 2nd change is for the rules for each age group. Basically the rules will drop one year. So U11 rules played at U10’s, U13 rules played at U12’s and so on.

Minotour and I have discussed bringing in stick checking at U13’s for a few years now and we know there are people out there that believe that this will loose kids because they are scared of being hurt. This is a valid concern and will now not be as big a concern as it was with stick checking to be at U14 level instead. There are always going to be kids and parents that don’t like the stick checking involved in lacrosse and we will always loose those kids to other non contact sports. However what we need to focus on here in Vic is to develop our juniors as best we can and have them ready to tryout for Regional, State and Aus teams in the future.

By bringing in stick checking a year earlier we are giving kids an extra years experience at the more physical game that they will experience at the U15 tournament. At the moment we have watched Vic teams struggle against W.A. teams because of the lack of experience with stick checking of our younger player. (W.A have stick checking at U13 level)

Anyway enough gabble from me. I feel that the benefits of the changes outweigh the negatives so please let us all know your feelings on this. If enough discussion is raised we may be able to use your constructive feedback at the forum.

[Jesse]

Ages should change to Even numbers.
If that happens, 14's needs to have stick checking and long Poles for the Under 15 tournament. I believe it has to be 6 foot. No more 5 foot Poles. I thought that rule was stupid. I havnt decided if it should be Div 1 Under 14's should have stick checking and Div 2 should have Under 13's rules, but I realise if that happens a team might not have a Div 1 team and then the players will struggle if they go to the Under 15 tournament.
16's needs 17 rules
18's needs seniors rules

I believe if these rules are not changed, they should leave them as odd numbers.

Heres a thread I started earlier this year on the topic.
http://lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=32027&highlight=rules+vic

[AusBadger]

got one question. will the age groups for nationals be changed aswell

[Jesse]

got one question. will the age groups for nationals be changed aswell
Uhhh.... I dont think so.
Im pretty sure its just for Victoria, but Im not sure.

[Minotaur]

age groups for the national tournaments will remain as they are.

[endoftheline]

When will girls be able to play with boys up to under 14's or under 12's? I think you have a problem in deciding when to bring in contact because the more competitive boys will become bored whilst the less competitive ones will be scared, in turn possibly causing more people to quit

[Minotaur]

Under 12's will be the last year for girls to be playing boy's lacrosse. They will be playing under 13 rules. Under 14's will be playing 15's rules and will be fielding 10 per side. Girls, (IMO) should be steered towards playing girls lacrosse earlier so they are better able to master the unique skills and rules that are involved with that game. In the past, clubs with large numbers of girls playing boy's under 11's & 13's have what we term as, "phantom numbers", as they tend to bolster a club's junior numbers on paper, but leave to play women's lacrosse after under 13's....thus depreciating a club's under 15 team.

[swankylaxer]

couldn't agree more minotaur, girls shouldn't be encorouged to play Mens Lax they should be steered straight towards Womens Lax. The girls playing Mens Lax often pick up a Mens stick first and this inhibits their abilities when they finaly go to Womens sticks. The girls playing U13 rules learn to play a very physical game which is not part of the Womens game and again causes problems for them.

Then you have clubs like Footscray who have a very good junior program happening but who played alot of girls in their U11's this year. This will only cause problems when they go to move up the ranks and the girls move onto Womens LAx.

[swankylaxer]

I think you have a problem in deciding when to bring in contact because the more competitive boys will become bored whilst the less competitive ones will be scared, in turn possibly causing more people to quit

Our game is a contact sport and it doesn't matter when the contact is bought in, sooner or later it has to happen. We are always going to get the kids who should have only ever played Soccer or Netball and they are going to be scared of the contact no matter what age group it starts at. We need to focus on what is best for developing the talent in Aus if we ever want to win a World Championship.

Do we sacrifice the developement of the majority in order to cater for the minority?

I say no we shouldn't. :agree:

[laxpigmi2005]

Our game is a contact sport and it doesn't matter when the contact is bought in, sooner or later it has to happen. We are always going to get the kids who should have only ever played Soccer or Netball and they are going to be scared of the contact no matter what age group it starts at. We need to focus on what is best for developing the talent in Aus if we ever want to win a World Championship.

Do we sacrifice the developement of the majority in order to cater for the minority?

I say no we shouldn't. :agree:


Couldn't agree more..

[cannon]

in the US they check and bump from age 8! ask piglet, his kids will tell ya

[swankylaxer]

Just got back from the forum and the age groups will change to 12,14,16,18's. The current rule regarding clubs having 2 x U13 team will change to 2 x U12 teams. A rules commitee has been formed and they will evaluate the rules for each age group but they will be similar to what I have written in the first post.

If you have any thoughts on rules for these age groups that you would like to have considered by the rules commitee, then please post them. I will take them to the meeting in 2 weeks time.

[whistleblower]

Was there any discusion to what time the U/18's would play on a Saturday??

[swankylaxer]

Was there any discusion to what time the U/18's would play on a Saturday??


Yes I did speek to a few people about starting times for U18's but nothing was realy discussed during the meeting regarding this. It has been left up to the rules commitee to put for the recommendation to the VLA. So by all means let us no what you think.

I have 2 thoughts on this,

1. 12's, 14's start at 9.30 and 16's, 18's start at 11.00. This allows 18,s to be finished by 12.30 which leaves 2 hours break before seniors.

2. 12's start at 9.30, 14's start at 10.00, 16's at 10.30(after the 12's are finished) and 18 to sart at 12.00. This is so that clubs who might need 16's to make up bench numbers for 18's will have a chance to get them to the 18's game and the 18's will still be able to get to their senior matches.

[Jesse]

Yes I did speek to a few people about starting times for U18's but nothing was realy discussed during the meeting regarding this. It has been left up to the rules commitee to put for the recommendation to the VLA. So by all means let us no what you think.

I have 2 thoughts on this,

1. 12's, 14's start at 9.30 and 16's, 18's start at 11.00. This allows 18,s to be finished by 12.30 which leaves 2 hours break before seniors.

2. 12's start at 9.30, 14's start at 10.00, 16's at 10.30(after the 12's are finished) and 18 to sart at 12.00. This is so that clubs who might need 16's to make up bench numbers for 18's will have a chance to get them to the 18's game and the 18's will still be able to get to their senior matches.
Number two is the best idea.

[endoftheline]

Number two but push it back half an hour/15 minutes (i.e 18's start at 11:45) or make senior matches a bit later. May as well give people playing two games an even two hours for warm down, travel, lunch, warm up and whatever else.

[pumba]

Number two is the best idea.

Do you play 2games every week of the year??

When you play at like williamstown in the morning then need to get back to places like eltham or surrey and malvern you are pushing for time. You get too rushed and no time to eat and just have a chill out before your 2nd game.

I think the times should stay the same with the 18s starting at the same time as the 17s started this year to give us some time before we go out and play our 2nd game.

Pumba

[Jesse]

Do you play 2games every week of the year??

When you play at like williamstown in the morning then need to get back to places like eltham or surrey and malvern you are pushing for time. You get too rushed and no time to eat and just have a chill out before your 2nd game.

I think the times should stay the same with the 18s starting at the same time as the 17s started this year to give us some time before we go out and play our 2nd game.

Pumba

Would we have enough grounds though to support all those games on at the same time?

[swankylaxer]

Another option to the 2nd option above is to have the 16's and 18's swap. So 18's start at 10.30 and 16's start at 12.00

[endoftheline]

yeh that's not a bad idea. But earlier starts might test some players commitment if it's going to interfere with Friday night's plans.