Rock and Transition Game

[tastycakes]

http://laxmagazine.cstv.com/sports/s-inter/content/111506aaa.html

The article makes it sound like Les Bartley's Rock created transition lacrosse in the pros. The Rock brought five on five lacrosse to the forefront, not two way lacrosse!?!?!? Very weird read. Some made sense and some sounded like the author didn't understand what was told to him. I used to watch the early Bandits live all the time and all the old MILL was was non stop run and gun lacrosse. The Rock slowed it down, subed their five and killed momentum as we know it. Yes, Veltman was there, but there's always been a guy that goes both ends, that's the way every kid in Ontario is taught lacrosse growing up, it's no revelation. Yes, over the past five years or so, two way lacrosse is the "in" thing in the NLL again, but to say the Rock reestablished transition lacrosse is absured and uneducated. Is there a lineup to write for IL of lax magazine, becasue the stuff I'm reading is just leaving me in awe of the auful work being done these days. Are American field writers just not getting boxla, or what??? :guns:

[RockStar]

I read that as well, and agree that it's at least confusing if not dead wrong.

I was told that the Rock (in their first year as the Ontario Raiders) tried to run a mostly two-way system sort of like Bandit Ball. For what I heard, they found by mid season that they needed to run mostly full O-D switching for it's obvious benefits.

In following years after I started watching, they never even really went to full run-and-gun transition. Mostly, they played strict O-D, but used a transition guy (Steve Toll mostly) as the fifth D-man. Toll was usually put against the weakest attacker. If the shot was coming from someone other than Toll's check, Toll would abandon his guy and take off upfloor. If a defender could easily corral the loose ball, it would be snagged and lofted upfloor to Toll. If a defender couldn't grab the loosie with a bit of room, it would be rolled in to Watson who could then make a protected pass from the crease (can't do this anymore in NLL). To prevent these lob passes from getting picked off, the Rock often aimed the pass ahead of Toll to make a high bounce so he could run it down.

Toll and Veltman also started a lot of fast breaks with their amazing knack for picking off passes in the defensive zone.

This isn't really 2-way play, it's just an adaptation of strict O-D.

[#15Roadies]

I am not sure what you are getting at tasty: "5-on-5" meaning what exactly? "Two-way" lacrosse meaning what exactly. Two way lacrosse, to me, means lines of 5 that play both ends of the floor - they break on O and come back and play a shift of D before changing. 5-on-5 means the same thing. O/D means you swap out the O guys for the D guys, but it is still 5-on-5 and there are usually one or two very fast transition guys that can play both ends of the floor, aka Veltman, when required.

"There's no hiding a guy that can't play defense and there's no hiding a guy that can't play offense, so there's more specialization," Mueller said. "A lot of people think that created a boring game."

The article makes sense to me, although I find a tough defensive battle to as interesting as a shootout. Probably more interesting because the games shifts from scoring every possession to more strategic possessions.

[tastycakes]

[QUOTE=#15Roadies]Two way lacrosse, to me, means lines of 5 that play both ends of the floor - they break on O and come back and play a shift of D before changing. 5-on-5 means the same thing.QUOTE]
5 on 5 to me has always meant, swapping your five O guys for your five D guys. There is not a single team in the NLL that runs the same five guys up the floor and back down it. If there is, please let me know who, becasue I have never seen it. The only time I've seen that is at the lower age levels when I used to play and maybe the odd team in junior. There is no team in the NLL that has five guys that has an entire line of players that go back and forth for a couple shifts.

[tastycakes]

I read that as well, and agree that it's at least confusing if not dead wrong.

I was told that the Rock (in their first year as the Ontario Raiders) tried to run a mostly two-way system sort of like Bandit Ball. For what I heard, they found by mid season that they needed to run mostly full O-D switching for it's obvious benefits.

In following years after I started watching, they never even really went to full run-and-gun transition. Mostly, they played strict O-D, but used a transition guy (Steve Toll mostly) as the fifth D-man. Toll was usually put against the weakest attacker. If the shot was coming from someone other than Toll's check, Toll would abandon his guy and take off upfloor. If a defender could easily corral the loose ball, it would be snagged and lofted upfloor to Toll. If a defender couldn't grab the loosie with a bit of room, it would be rolled in to Watson who could then make a protected pass from the crease (can't do this anymore in NLL). To prevent these lob passes from getting picked off, the Rock often aimed the pass ahead of Toll to make a high bounce so he could run it down.

Toll and Veltman also started a lot of fast breaks with their amazing knack for picking off passes in the defensive zone.

This isn't really 2-way play, it's just an adaptation of strict O-D.

Yes, the Rock did play a different style of lacrosse to start their existence, until they completely switched it up and turned on the five on five style that won them all those cups... until the rest of the nll caught up with them. It was a slow, boring, clutch and grab style of lacrosse that had everyone outside of Toronto sleeping and bored.

[RockStar]

.........It was a slow, boring, clutch and grab style of lacrosse that had everyone outside of Toronto sleeping and bored.

Disagree, not that it was boring, but that it was unique to Toronto.

Since about 1999, most shifts have been half floor play with a full changeout in each direction for all teams. Any year the Rock won was due to top notch D, adequate goaltending, and a balanced attack....the other teams were also playing mostly strict O-D and didn't really need the Rock's help to slow them further.

You know, by using a guy like Toll or Veltman on most defensive shifts, and by greenlighting any fastbreaking D-man, even Drew Candy, to go to the net and shoot if they were in the clear, the Bartley-era Rock probably played at least as much run and gun as the other teams.