Canadian lacrosse hit by another massive blow.

[tastycakes]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2006/12/15/2805414-sun.html

Noticed this little ditty on another site. From someone who has been involved as a player, coach and fundraiser for the sport in Canada, this kinda of half assed business sense up here doesn't surprise me one bit. One step forward and two steps back, just like always. The people that run lacrosse in Canada look at everything like this and other events/games as a cash grab and nothing else. This time it didn't work though. This is another reason why lacrosse will never grow to the heights it should be at, especially up north.

[uncle cracka]

I found this article very misleading. It seems to me that Hobbs worked his off to put on a top notch event and the Canadian government did not support his efforts. It's unfair to put the blame solely on his shoulders. We're talking about $100,000 here, this isn't millions.

[tastycakes]

I found this article very misleading. It seems to me that Hobbs worked his off to put on a top notch event and the Canadian government did not support his efforts. It's unfair to put the blame solely on his shoulders. We're talking about $100,000 here, this isn't millions.
That's a cope out. The government has more important things on their plate than helping Hobbs out with the Worlds. Hobbs also blames the UWO for not enough "support". And educational institution really should pull out the stops for a privately run event to help some indiviuals make more money. Try telling the up to 50 business that were not paid that they shouldn't worry about it, becasue it isn't millions. Who knows, some may be affected immensley by this pathetically run event. And I was there, I would not say it was really a "top notch event". Not sure what is misleading about the article. Are these businesses not owed this money? I think it's pretty obvious that Hobbs feels he didn't get enough government support, it was stated clearly in the article. What was so misleading?

[TRITON]

I know its big news when this story appears in 3 different forums, INT, NLL & GEN


http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=66989

[tastycakes]

my bad. point of interest though, why does inside lacrosse not have anything on what to me is a pretty big story about international field lacrosse?

[#15Roadies]

Because it isn't a "BIG STORY" it is a petty sob story from the London Free Press who are using their media influence to try and get "paid" for the apparent 20k they are owed. And now it seems it will backfire on them if Hobb's company declares bankruptcy. :wow:

Really, anyone who says that "Canadian lacrosse takes a massive blow' is being a titch over-dramatic. Catch your breath before you post ya know?

"The people that run lacrosse in Canada look at everything like this and other events/games as a cash grab and nothing else." :ahhno:

Geez, what an ignorant thing to write. Ignorant of the fact that the majority of people what 'run lacrosse in Canada' are hard working volunteers giving of their time and effort for the love of the game and the sake of the kids. If you truly feel this way tastycakes, do us all a favour and go join hockey - you know, that sport with plenty of high moral fibre. :imparied:

[tastycakes]

Because it isn't a "BIG STORY" it is a petty sob story from the London Free Press who are using their media influence to try and get "paid" for the apparent 20k they are owed. And now it seems it will backfire on them if Hobb's company declares bankruptcy. :wow:

Really, anyone who says that "Canadian lacrosse takes a massive blow' is being a titch over-dramatic. Catch your breath before you post ya know?

"The people that run lacrosse in Canada look at everything like this and other events/games as a cash grab and nothing else." :ahhno:

Geez, what an ignorant thing to write. Ignorant of the fact that the majority of people what 'run lacrosse in Canada' are hard working volunteers giving of their time and effort for the love of the game and the sake of the kids. If you truly feel this way tastycakes, do us all a favour and go join hockey - you know, that sport with plenty of high moral fibre. :imparied:
100k in lacrosse is definitely a massive amount of money. The bad press, is definitely not good for the sport, especially in Ontario. Are you thinking that this article pushed him to banruptcy or the fact that that there was no way in hell he was going to pay any of these companies? Trust me, the people that volunteer loads of their time to the sport, are far from the ones that run the sport. If I owned a company, gave someone, in this case Hobbs, my best prices, volunteered my servies in many cases as the article says, and then this guy doesn't pay me, I'd be beyond pissed. I was at the games for two days and can't say I was impressed with the event, not sure where all his funding went. If you had any knowledge of the business side of the sport in Canada, you would have thought twice before you super fan comments. Gee, I wonder why the government didn't give them more money. It's been stated by the LFP and other resources that attendence was lower than expected (what a surprise). Maybe I should start my own world games, how about the World Hot Carl Championships, and expect massive federal funding. And then as long as I don't owe millions, I should be okay. Yeah sure, lacrosse is Canada's national summer sport, so what! The government knows that it's not a viable championship to put tax payers money in to, guess you and Hobbs think differently. To me, this is just another example of poorly run Canadian lacrosse events and the backlash that always seems to follow.

[#15Roadies]

Tastycakes - 100k in lacrosse yes, in federal sport funding - no. I have enough experience, enough inside knowledge of lacrosse and the federal government to make fairly accurate statements about the business side of lacrosse and sport in general.

"Trust me, the people that volunteer loads of their time to the sport, are far from the ones that run the sport."

Simply untrue statement with loads of evidence against it.

Before this I never even heard of Hobbs, but I have heard of alot more people that run minor associations, junior and senior clubs and not one of them makes a dime - in most cases they end up paying out of pocket to keep things going. The people that run lacrosse in Canada are mostly volunteers. Those that try to profit or even break even are few and far between. If you don't believe me ask the people that run minor lacrosse tournaments, sit on club boards, or try and find the funding for provincial or national teams.

The "bad press" is limited to some backwater rag that themselves are owed 20k, or so they say. As far as the rest of Canada goes it is a non-story, no-news, and a true who-cares issue.

"The government knows that it's not a viable championship to put tax payers money in to,"

Hogwash. Anyone that has the slightest clue about the purpose of provincial and federal governments wouldn't make a statement like this with a straight face. So you must obviously be joking.

"Maybe I should start my own world games..."

Maybe you should and perhaps get the backing of your provincial, federal and international associations while you are at it. Good luck with that red herring.

"...poorly run Canadian lacrosse events and the backlash that always seems to follow"

Nah, you are a typical Canadian who likes to beat himself up - a well documented Canadian phenomenon. So what "Canadian lacrosse events" are you referring to exactly? I have yet to see 'bad press' about the Lacrosse Festival in Whitby, the Founders Cup in Windsor, the Mann Cup in Peterborough, or any other major Canadian Championship this year.

Which leads me to believe that your opinion in mostly uninformed.

[tastycakes]

Then explain to me why more money wasn't given if just 100k isn't a lot of money? Or wait, is there a major vendetta held by the federal and provincial goverment in Canada against lacrosse. Give me a break man. There wasn't more money given because thie event didn't warrant it. This is just a scape goat for Hobbs and others to point the finger at someone else, and you've bought in to it.

LOL, minor assoications don't run lacrosse in this country. I realize who volunteers (myself included) and who doesn't. You are talking at the very bottom level, grass roots level even. I'm not talking about family members or past members of clubs who give countless hours or hard work and hours to help their club do it what it can. You know how you never heard of Hobbs prior to this, there's about ten or more other people like Hobbs who you've probably never heard of, that cash in on this sport every year. Try taking a look at some of the key sponsors of the World Championships, and you might figure out one of those key individuals.

LFP a backwater wrag huh? Do you realize this backwater wrag is published by the same company that publishes papers like the Sun, who easily gives this sport the most mainstream ink anywhere in the country. It's obvious you don't know much about this industry either.

Funny, I have seen next to no press about those tourneys you mentioned either. Wonder if it's because in some cases, not all, the people that run these events barely put any money into areas like marketing, advertising or public relations to help grow this sport. I saw more ads for the Worlds in Inside Lacrosse than any local media here in Ontario. From a purely business prospective, why on earth would you try bringing people in thousands of miles away versus the locals. There is so much wrong with how these Worlds and so many events are run and marketed in this country. And then people like you probably wonder why lacrosse is a sport most Canadians could care less about. Your opinions and views are from a volunteer or "insiders" prospective, take a look at it outside of the box buddy.

[tastycakes]

Another thing that really jumped out at me, how the hell did London even get selected when so much of it's funding was up in the air. For chirsts sakes, Hobbs didn't sound like he had a budget or game plan at all! This is such a friggin joke.

Still don't think this is a massive blow to Canadian lacrosse? The next time Canada's chance of hosting comes along, how many people do you think will actually want to run an event that financially was an absolute mess. Hobbs was willing to pay someone 35k a year, his sons incidently, but apparently 15Roadies says the country is swimming with volunteers. Where the hell was Hobbs looking for these people?!?!?! Christ, I have friends looking for work that are from the sports business field that would have killed for this chance. I myself was job hunting about a year and a half ago and never saw anything (much like their advertising) for these positions. Bottom line, this was run poorly, I personally can't say I was impressed with the event, even though the product on the field proved great, but the rest of the event was half assed and poorly run like always.

[#15Roadies]

Lookit tastycakes, you are obviously over-reaching in an attempt to justify your unfounded views and completely ignoring the facts before you including the fact that you do not know all the details except those which were carefully selected for a minor story in a minor newspaper - to which money is apparently owed.

Really, dismantling your volumous arguments laid out below would be like shooting fish in a barrel and I have no desire to belabour the point with you, with one exception:

The impression I get is that you are not as 'connected' to the lacrosse in Canada as you think and that this issue for you is personal - maybe they passed you over for a job or something. For that I have some sympathy, but my original statement stands:

"...that your opinion in mostly uninformed."

[tastycakes]

Lookit tastycakes, you are obviously over-reaching in an attempt to justify your unfounded views and completely ignoring the facts before you including the fact that you do not know all the details except those which were carefully selected for a minor story in a minor newspaper - to which money is apparently owed.

Really, dismantling your volumous arguments laid out below would be like shooting fish in a barrel and I have no desire to belabour the point with you, with one exception:

The impression I get is that you are not as 'connected' to the lacrosse in Canada as you think and that this issue for you is personal - maybe they passed you over for a job or something. For that I have some sympathy, but my original statement stands:

"...that your opinion in mostly uninformed."
If you knew who I was, I think you'd retract some of your closing statements. Canadian lacrosse as a whole has never done me wrong personally, or passed me over for a job or something as you put it. But for someone that has put in countless hours and finances into this sport, I would expect more from the powers that be in cases like this one where the sport's name and reputation is on the line. To me, you're a typical Canadian lacrosse supporter, who probably does a good deal of volunteer work, probably belongs to some fan clubs, like of the Toronto Rock or something of that nature, that feels that people like Hobbs can do no wrong.

[#15Roadies]

PM me who you are, I can keep a secret. If you knew who I am, you might feel the same way. Hey, we have probably met - LOL!

"that feels that people like Hobbs can do no wrong."

Not my point at all. My point is that

A) we ought not to judge a situation (or a person) by, as you say yourself, a "little ditty on another site" that is a careful selection of facts that have obvious bias;

B) we ought not to make sweeping or generalizing statements about the whole of anything when only a small, insignificant fraction is affected; and

C) we ought to be careful when plugging the holes in our arguments with unsubstantiated opinion, anecdotes or sentimentalisms.

I don't even know Hobbs so I have no judgment on him or his family. However, in the grand scheme of things, this truly is a non-story unless you were personally burned in the situation or a similar situation.

As one American lacrosse fan commented on this issue (in a little ditty on another site), "Phht, wake up and deal. Or rather, welcome to the big leagues of being a big city."

[KnightsLAXDad]

Ease up gentlemen and present FACTS, not unsubstantiable "I should know", or "trust me". Keep it civil or the thread get locked down.

KLD

[tastycakes]

I think it's safe to say we can agree to disagree on this one. But in the thirty years I've been involved with lacrosse in this country, this is a similar incident in a long line of unreported financial messes certain people in this sport have left. But come on, you have to say this is a negative. Maybe we'll argue on the level of negativism this incident has left on the sport, but to look at this as a positive is not possible. I've spoken to a number of people this past weekend who know a bit more of what has taken place here, and let's just say that the article has not reported any inaccuracies and that help in a number of ways was given to people associated with the Worlds, and was not taken. Let's just say, there were a whole lot of poor business decisions made during this event. My point, lacrosse in Canada has poor business decisions made on a daily basis during the heat of the seasons, usually made by the same people over and over again. It's one of the main reasons why the sport struggles in this country.

[#15Roadies]

Nobody is saying that it is a positive, just that it is not as bad as it seems. With all the unreported financial messes and all the previous disasters, one could make a good case that lacrosse is doing just fine in spite of those problems.

The reality is, any company becoming insolvent is nothing new, in fact some 9000 businesses go bankrupt per year. (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inbsf-osb.nsf/en/br01570e.html) and some 100,000 individuals go bankrupt. We should be concerned when every lacrosse related company or individual goes insolvent as a black eye on the sport? I don't think so.

"My point, lacrosse in Canada has poor business decisions made on a daily basis during the heat of the seasons, usually made by the same people over and over again." While this may be true, there are far more good business decisions made by the majority of people in lacrosse that keeps things going good despite the poor decisions by the few. I mean, we survived the Ottawa Rebel folding did we not? LOL!

[tastycakes]

Nobody is saying that it is a positive, just that it is not as bad as it seems. With all the unreported financial messes and all the previous disasters, one could make a good case that lacrosse is doing just fine in spite of those problems.

The reality is, any company becoming insolvent is nothing new, in fact some 9000 businesses go bankrupt per year. (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inbsf-osb.nsf/en/br01570e.html) and some 100,000 individuals go bankrupt. We should be concerned when every lacrosse related company or individual goes insolvent as a black eye on the sport? I don't think so.

"My point, lacrosse in Canada has poor business decisions made on a daily basis during the heat of the seasons, usually made by the same people over and over again." While this may be true, there are far more good business decisions made by the majority of people in lacrosse that keeps things going good despite the poor decisions by the few. I mean, we survived the Ottawa Rebel folding did we not? LOL!
With all the people that run team, from minor to senior in Canada, that you yourself put their own money in and get nothing in return, including usually a loss, lacrosse in Canada is not doing well at all. Yes, thousands of business go belly up every year, but why are we comparing ourselves to the worst examples and not the best. I personally believe it's this attitude of "well there are worst off than us" than is hurting this great sports chances of some real growth. Our own goverment doesn't deem the sport fit enough to what we would want as adequate funding for our game's largest event, the sport itself had to pay CBC of all stations to carry our sport. There is a reason for this. They know how this sport is run and they know that at this point, it is not worth their own coin to help grow it. I think it's great to be positive, but for this sport to grow we need to be as critical as possible and approach each event with a perfectionist attitude. If not, we will continue to be laughed at and remain unsupported by the powers that we need on our side.

[tastycakes]

Sorry for the major grammar errors I just reread. I'm in a meeting right now and doing this on my laptop while wasting my time listening to this brutal meeting on a Monday.

[#15Roadies]

I am not going to dispute that there are some leadership changes required at certain levels of Canadian and Provincial lacrosse, but that can be said of practically any organization. And everyone has great ideas on how to promote the sport.

"...get nothing in return..." I think our definitions of "nothing" are very far apart. I get quite a high return on my investment in lacrosse and sometimes those returns are measured in more than dollars.

I must say, I am as curious as anyone as to why Sport Canada, among others was not on the funding bandwagon for this as I figured they would be a huge sponsor along with some other big federal and provincial departments. Could be Hobbs layed a big one, but I am not going to speculate. (But I would like to know those details.)

As for the CBC, well, I think it has more to do with ignorance of the game than knowledge of the state of the game. They are a public broadcaster that is supposed to support and promote Canadian culture and they give us 'Little Mosque On The Prairie??'

Hank from Corner Gas does more to promote lacrosse and Canadian culture than the CBC and all he does is wear a tee-shirt!

[tastycakes]

I am not going to dispute that there are some leadership changes required at certain levels of Canadian and Provincial lacrosse, but that can be said of practically any organization. And everyone has great ideas on how to promote the sport.

"...get nothing in return..." I think our definitions of "nothing" are very far apart. I get quite a high return on my investment in lacrosse and sometimes those returns are measured in more than dollars.

I must say, I am as curious as anyone as to why Sport Canada, among others was not on the funding bandwagon for this as I figured they would be a huge sponsor along with some other big federal and provincial departments. Could be Hobbs layed a big one, but I am not going to speculate. (But I would like to know those details.)

As for the CBC, well, I think it has more to do with ignorance of the game than knowledge of the state of the game. They are a public broadcaster that is supposed to support and promote Canadian culture and they give us 'Little Mosque On The Prairie??'

Hank from Corner Gas does more to promote lacrosse and Canadian culture than the CBC and all he does is wear a tee-shirt!
Should the CBC and Sport Canada do more, yes, from my perspective, they should. But than again I am a lacrosse lover. Do I think from business standpoint, the sport is something they should to sink their money into, probably not. Oh, I get a great deal of joy from watching my son play lacrosse, or watching a great game really anywhere at any level, but the CBC, sport canada or some suit and tie in ottawa could care less. We have to stop expecting the CBC or gov't to provide us support, similar to what it sounds like Hobbs wanted, and prove to them that we are a viable, smart business option for them. Right now, we are far from it. I support the game becasue I love it, but if I was an investor and was approached by the CLA to pout my own money into the sport, I would deem them way too risky an option at this point. Hobbs' stunt at the game, however good his intentions were, only adds to the unprossionalism this sport is tagged with.

[#15Roadies]

"...but the CBC, sport canada or some suit and tie in ottawa could care less."

You gotta remember tastycakes, "their" money is really "our" money. If there is one thing lacrosse folks are good at it is preaching to the converted. If Rogers and Cogeco can have games of the week in Junior and Major, then the CBC can televise a handful of World Championship games once every four years. And really, until enough laxers get together and start exerting their numbers to their MP's & MPP's the suits at CBC have no reason to sit up and take notice - the lacrosse wheel apparently does not sqeak enough to reqire grease. They'll go on with their abstract po-mo ballet and award winning documentaries on the reproductive system of wetland field mice.

[tastycakes]

"...but the CBC, sport canada or some suit and tie in ottawa could care less."

You gotta remember tastycakes, "their" money is really "our" money. If there is one thing lacrosse folks are good at it is preaching to the converted. If Rogers and Cogeco can have games of the week in Junior and Major, then the CBC can televise a handful of World Championship games once every four years. And really, until enough laxers get together and start exerting their numbers to their MP's & MPP's the suits at CBC have no reason to sit up and take notice - the lacrosse wheel apparently does not sqeak enough to reqire grease. They'll go on with their abstract po-mo ballet and award winning documentaries on the reproductive system of wetland field mice.
A game of the week on usually poorly run local broadcasts, usually going crazy to find anything to put on tv, is very different than CBC to show a game or two, even if it's only every four years. I'm affriad the perception of the sport by outsiders is nowhere near where we regard it. Until that perception is changed, mainly from the way lacrosse is run on the business side of the sport, we won't get anywhere.

[K Baz]

Hank from Corner Gas does more to promote lacrosse and Canadian culture than the CBC and all he does is wear a tee-shirt!

Hank actually is a very dedicated lacrosse fan and player and has been known to wear a lacrosse jersey as well as the famous "Moose Jaw Mustanges" T-Shirt.

[lax_coach14]

Hank actually is a very dedicated lacrosse fan and player and has been known to wear a lacrosse jersey as well as the famous "Moose Jaw Mustanges" T-Shirt.
"Hank" actually played lacrosse in Port Moody, BC. I went to school with him in Port Moody but played for Port Coquitlam. Some good years with a rivalry that I still look back on fondly. It's funny to see Fred aka Hank on such a funny show. I think Hank is based on Freddy as he was, so not much of a stretch for acting...LOL.

[#15Roadies]

"Until that perception is changed, mainly from the way lacrosse is run on the business side of the sport, we won't get anywhere." That is the partial answer.

The Toronto Rock seem to be the epitome of a decent business side and they have trouble getting a television deal. Does the CBC Toronto even report the scores? Nevermind OLA lacrosse with the exception of local CHEX news in Peterborough...

[tastycakes]

"Until that perception is changed, mainly from the way lacrosse is run on the business side of the sport, we won't get anywhere." That is the partial answer.

The Toronto Rock seem to be the epitome of a decent business side and they have trouble getting a television deal. Does the CBC Toronto even report the scores? Nevermind OLA lacrosse with the exception of local CHEX news in Peterborough...
From what I'm told, the Rock aren't exactly an honest business model. I think the Rock offices have gone through more employees than the actual team itself. And I know they went down the road of purchasing their own television time back in the day, which I believe has led to Rogers producing their own broadcast, but for anyone that knows for sure, correct me if I'm wrong.

[#15Roadies]

C'mon tastycakes, tell me one successful business out there that is "...an honest business model."

[laxpimp]

"Canada Wins World Championship On Home Soil"

I think that statement right there more than makes up for the botched organizing.

Fact is, yeah, the tourney was badly run and promoted, but we won. Every year we're sending more and more kids down to the States to play on U.S. scholarships. We're the best in the world when it comes to lacrosse.

If potential sponsers can't get past a poorly run championship, they probably aren;t that smart to begin with.

[bstewart]

Hank actually is a very dedicated lacrosse fan and player and has been known to wear a lacrosse jersey as well as the famous "Moose Jaw Mustanges" T-Shirt.


Why does everyone put an "e" at the end of our name?? Were the "Mustangs" damnit... NOT the "Mustanges"... sounds like a topping on a pie... mmmmmmmmm... pie... lemon meringue pie... mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Damn you Baz... now I'm thinking about pies! Your ruining my weight loss program... 32 pounds in 2 months all shot to hell!! There goes my sleek, panther-like body... sigh...

It's good to see that Fred... errrrrrrrrr, I mean Hank obviously has great taste in lax teams and goes with winners :)

[Storm21]

Hank actually is a very dedicated lacrosse fan and player and has been known to wear a lacrosse jersey as well as the famous "Moose Jaw Mustanges" T-Shirt.


i remeber that, i was watching it in a hotel room and i was like HEY!! THOES ARE THE SHIRTS WE GOT A FEW YEARS AGO, i have 2 of them :)

[ChiefsLacrosse1]

as for the article...am i the only one who it says that you need to pay $10 in order to read it? cause id be pretty interested if i didnt have to pay :(

[OldPtboBoy]

Not the only one.

Try this..........

http://communications.uwo.ca/making_headlines/coverage/01215.htm

[OldPtboBoy]

I'd rather talk about Hank. I don't really see this as a lacrosse related article. The actual World Championships occured. The sport aspects of the event went off without a hitch. Team Canada won.

This is business. It would be the equivalent of Warrior going out of business. Yes you'd have to buy lacrosse merchandise from someone else but lacrosse would still be thriving everywhere. Many suppliers would be out money, shareholders would be freaking, and it would have a major impact on cities that are home to their plants. But it wouldn't affect lacrosse on a major level. Many business' are started up with a poor plan.

In this case he had a wish list of money he would like and Santa didn't come through. Unsecured capital is no way to operate anything. As the old saying goes....Sh*t in one hand and wish in the other, see which one fills up first.

As for this being a major blow to lacrosse in London, Ontario, Canada.............I don't think so. Do you think that the world will look down on the Canadian Natioinal Team because the tent rental bill hasn't been paid? If an outdoor music festival's organizers don't pay the tent rental guy, no one looks poorly at the Tragically Hip, and it certainly doesn't signal the end of live music in the country. If anything it will mean that possibly the next city to host will have to present a solid business plan based on secured funds and projected revenues. Which would be a plus.

[#15Roadies]

Well said OldPete, well said.