NEW Stick Check Procedures!!

[laxfan25]

The biggest news out of the clinician's training class last night - there has been a major change in the number of stick checks that will be done in a game with NCAA rules. The coaches have gotten fed up with the number of illegal sticks finding their way into the game, and have taken serious steps to address it -
* There will now be a MINIMUM of six checks per team, per game. There is still the possibility of the coach's request for equipment check, but there will be the 6 stick-only checks as well.
* The checks between the 1st and 3rd periods are gone, because they can be anticipated. The intent is to make these totally random, so you may see them called after a goal, before a faceoff, after a timeout call, during injury time, etc.
* Most of the checks will be done in the 1st thru 3rd quarters. The coaches do not want this random check occuring in the final two minutes, although the coach could do his requested one then.
* When called, a stick from each team will be taken
* If done after a goal, the goal scorer's stick and a long pole will be obtained. If the goal scorer's stick is illegal, the goal is taken off the board and the penalty is assessed.
* If done before a faceoff, both faceoff guys will be called.
* The checks after goals will be balanced between teams - say two on Team A after goals and two on Team B. (Assuming Team B scores! :lol: )
* The '07 Rule Book also put back in this year the requirement that head width be measured on the front and BACK of the stick - 6.5" for each. This had been in the rule book several years ago - was taken out - and put back in specifically this year. We will find out if this will be part of the stick check procedure during the meetings. An interesting point - the stick measurements designed for '09 say 6.5" on the front and 6" on the back. It would be nice if they would adopt that for the current season, but as of now, the rule book says 6.5" front and back.

We were the first group to hear about this at the Convention. Needless to say, it created a LOT of discussion and buzz. When it is announced at the NCAA Rules Clinic on Saturday to the whole group, it will be interesting - Should sound like the British House of Commons!

You've been alerted. This will be happening this season.

[CSlax06]

Phew...good thing Im still in HS...I guess there gonna start cracking down on us ploles then huh? *goes to make stick legal*

[C.Montgomery]

I'm going to have to get a new scorecard now. I wonder if any printers can make custom plastic cards. I'll need space to record at least 12 checks and whether they were after a goal or not. I guess for now my options are to write on the field diagram on the back or just use a piece of paper.

[laxfan25]

I'm going to have to get a new scorecard now. I wonder if any printers can make custom plastic cards. I'll need space to record at least 12 checks and whether they were after a goal or not. I guess for now my options are to write on the field diagram on the back or just use a piece of paper.
This was discussed, and we likely will no longer record the ones checked. If it happens right after a goal, you should be able to relate the goal scorer's number to the one you are checking. After the next faceoff, the goal cannot be removed anyways.

[C.Montgomery]

Was checking the same player more than once in a game discussed? I think it makes sense to do that from time to time just so people don't start altering their stick right after it is checked because they know it won't be checked again, but the number of repeat checks should be the same for both teams. I imagine myself recording this information on the back of my card. I'll most likely record the numbers so I'll know if I've already checked a player's croose, but also to keep track of how many I've checked. I'll probably use the stick check area on the front of the card to record coaches requests (i.e., have they used their "free" check).

[Orange]

Is there a chance these will be put into NFHS rules for this year? I wouldn't mind them.

[laxfan25]

Is there a chance these will be put into NFHS rules for this year? I wouldn't mind them.
Probably not for this year, although I'm going to the NFHS Rules meeting in 10 minutes, and we'll know more then. I doubt if it's something they will introduce for this season in NFHS though.

[faceofflax15]

I hope they introduce it, Lax will be a lot better, more legal sticks. But they need to get stick checks to go faster, so we can play more, wait less.

[old geezer]

so Monty, when does your wife come home and you don't spend all of your time on the lacrosse forums or calling me to pass the time? Morris Forrester says hi.

[C.Montgomery]

so Monty, when does your wife come home and you don't spend all of your time on the lacrosse forums or calling me to pass the time? Morris Forrester says hi.
I've got almost a week of freedom remaining. Just remember, anything I don't get to talk about here I'll just talk about and ask you in our meetings. And tell Dr. Forrester to stop snoring.

[3rdPersonPlural]

I think that this is the correct thread.....

Any word on this procedure descending upon us Strictly Federation officials this year?

[LaxRef]

I think that this is the correct thread.....

Any word on this procedure descending upon us Strictly Federation officials this year?

See http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?p=995792

Oh, and we're supposed to be able to do these checks in about 30 seconds. Considering that we'll be doing them mostly just after a goal, just before a faceoff, or during a timeout (called, injury, TV), it shouldn't add much time to the game. We will have to practice and we will have to be very organized.

But if you think about it, it usually takes close to 30 seconds after a goal to get the ball to midfield, click the 20-second timer, and get the play going anyway. Hopefully, this stick check procedure only extends that 30 seconds to a about 40 seconds, so if we do 4 after goals that only adds about 40 seconds to the game. If we do two more during timeouts, those add no time to the game. So, even if I'm understimating by half, that's still only addding 1:20 to the game: a small price to pay for getting the illegal sticks out of the game!

[3rdPersonPlural]

If a Nascar crewman can change a tire in 7 seconds, I expect that with practice we cal check the dimensions and pocket depth of a lacrosse stick in 20 seconds.

That means that we can throw a quick stick check during sideline OOB horns, while someone chases a shot (this may encourage coaches to actually keep an ample supply of balls on the endline), and while one's partner reports a time serving penalty to the scorekeeper.

Heck, why not grab a couple of sticks after doing your pregame lineup?

[LaxRef]

Heck, why not grab a couple of sticks after doing your pregame lineup?

Because the game hasn't started yet, so the coach will argue he can't have an illegal stick at that point! Same with opening face.

[Lthomas]

Couple of things:
1st, they said at the convention, that we will not measure the back of the stick.
2nd is a question of awarding the ball: Scenario, A1 scores goal, stick check reveals that he has a pinched stick 3 min unreleasable , goal disallowed; B1, middie on defense, has a deep pocket, 1 minute unreleasable. B has less penalty time, therefore gets possession at the midline, no face. If the penalty time had been equal, then Face. Is there agreeement on this. There isn't any possession, dead ball fouls.

[LaxRef]

Couple of things:
1st, they said at the convention, that we will not measure the back of the stick.
2nd is a question of awarding the ball: Scenario, A1 scores goal, stick check reveals that he has a pinched stick 3 min unreleasable , goal disallowed; B1, middie on defense, has a deep pocket, 1 minute unreleasable. B has less penalty time, therefore gets possession at the midline, no face. If the penalty time had been equal, then Face. Is there agreeement on this. There isn't any possession, dead ball fouls.

We talked about this at the clinician's training. Verdict: you're spot on.

These are simultaneous fouls (order we measure sticks doesn't matter), so we follow rule 7-6 for possession.

One side note: for NFHS, if penalty times are equal, it's technically correct to award the ball by A.P. since no one has or is entitled to possession. But no one is going to know if you do a faceoff, since that's the NCAA rule and it just "feels right."

[eme]

It would be cleaner if (given equal penalty times) in this situation to have a face-off. But the rules say to to go AP.

[C.Montgomery]

Just to stir things up a little (assume NCAA rules):
If A1(who scored) receives 3 minutes of penalty time, and B1 receives 1 minute, then I think we all agree that B is awarded the ball. Do we award the ball at the center of the field, because that is where we would have had a faceoff or outside of the box, GLE, because that's where the ball was when the whistle last blew?
Similarly, what if penalty time is equal? Do say that there was a faceoff pending and have a faceoff still or do we say that since the goal was disallowed that there was no longer a faceoff pending and award the ball via AP, outside the box at GLE?

This is similar to this thread (http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?p=960961), and once I again doubt that we will all agree.

[LaxRef]

Just to stir things up a little (assume NCAA rules):
If A1(who scored) receives 3 minutes of penalty time, and B1 receives 1 minute, then I think we all agree that B is awarded the ball. Do we award the ball at the center of the field, because that is where we would have had a faceoff or outside of the box, GLE, because that's where the ball was when the whistle last blew?
Similarly, what if penalty time is equal? Do say that there was a faceoff pending and have a faceoff still or do we say that since the goal was disallowed that there was no longer a faceoff pending and award the ball via AP, outside the box at GLE?

No faceoff, because there is no goal. Technically, by 7-3 the exception to the free clear is live ball simultaneous fouls with time to be served by each team, so the technically correct answer is to start play where it was. A senior official told me that I was trying to "Pick fly (expletive) out of pepper" on this point; in other words, he'd keep the ball where it was since there were simul fouls even though the ball was dead. I'll see if I can come up with an A.R. to submit for next year that addresses this.

[eme]

Let me see if I have this right.

A1 scores. He adjusts his stick before giving it to official who had asked for it. Bingo...flag down for 1 min. NR and goal comes off. B to get ball at Ctr. X. Stick measures legal. But now B1's stick is measured. Pocket too deep. I min. NR.
Even though we measured B's stick after A's stick, we consider them measured at the same time. The problem here is that A1's USC occurred before the sticks being measured. We have dead ball fouls...award by sequence. B gets ball at Ctr. X...

After a goal, A1's and B1's sticks gets measured. Neither stick scored the goal. We consider them measured at the same time during this dead ball. Each gets a minute NR. Okay..penalty times are the same...no one had possession. We go AP now at Ctr. X.

Correct?

[eme]

Wrong. In my first situation A would get the ball at Ctr X after B1's dead ball foul.

[LaxRef]

After a goal, A1's and B1's sticks gets measured. Neither stick scored the goal. We consider them measured at the same time during this dead ball. Each gets a minute NR. Okay..penalty times are the same...no one had possession. We go AP now at Ctr. X.

Correct?

Here, you have simultaneous fouls with a face-off pending. NCAA: we have a faceoff. NFHS: Alternate possession.

[sirfartsalot295]

I'm kinda confused. What are this year's NFHS rules? (stick wise)

On a side note: I read somewhere that highschool goalies have to start wearing leg pads. is that correct?

[C.Montgomery]

So what about the situation of we check A1 and B1 and A1 had scored the goal. Both get 1 minute NR. Where do we restart?

[LaxRef]

I'm kinda confused. What are this year's NFHS rules? (stick wise)


Same as last year, as are the NCAA rules. But this is a mechanics issue, not a rules issue.

On a side note: I read somewhere that highschool goalies have to start wearing leg pads. is that correct?

False.

[LaxRef]

So what about the situation of we check A1 and B1 and A1 had scored the goal. Both get 1 minute NR. Where do we restart?

I posted about this in another thread. They're simultaneous fouls during a dead ball. The rules aren't clear on the restart, but I'd award the ball by AP (assuming penalty time is equal, as in your example) outside the box. You could make a case for a free clear, but I don't think that makes sense.

[eme]

LaxRef: Could you please quote the rule in NCAA where it says dead-ball simultaneous, pen. times the same, that says you still faceoff...and NFHS where it says you go AP.
Thanks.

[sirfartsalot295]

Are D-poles going to be check more regularly?

[LaxRef]

LaxRef: Could you please quote the rule in NCAA where it says dead-ball simultaneous, pen. times the same, that says you still faceoff...and NFHS where it says you go AP.
Thanks.

See:

c. Award the ball:

1. When penalty time is awarded and one team incurs less total penalty
time than its opponent, that team shall be awarded the ball.

2. When penalty times are equal or all fouls cancel:

a) If a team has possession or is entitled to possession at the time of
the flag or whistle, that team shall retain possession.

b) If neither team has possession at the time of the fouls, the ball
shall be awarded according to the alternate-possession rule.
(See Rule 4-31.) (Exception: When a faceoff is pending in this
situation, a faceoff will be held.)

NFHS does not have that exception (IIRC, the rule is otherwise the same) so you go AP under NFHS rules (technically).

[3rdPersonPlural]

Farts,

Last year we introduced the notion that poles were not exempt from scrutiny. This year that notion has real traction.

Best advice - make sure that your head, shaft, and pocket are legal, and make sure that your teammates' equipment is legal as well. The only time I've ever seen a game turn on a penalty has been because of a 3 minute nonreleaseable stick foul.

[cali feeder]

Farts,

Last year we introduced the notion that poles were not exempt from scrutiny. This year that notion has real traction.

Best advice - make sure that your head, shaft, and pocket are legal, and make sure that your teammates' equipment is legal as well. The only time I've ever seen a game turn on a penalty has been because of a 3 minute nonreleaseable stick foul.

Are you talking about us, two years ago, when Clasby was a sophmore and he got called for an illegal stick and we lost to Agoura?

[3rdPersonPlural]

Are you talking about us, two years ago, when Clasby was a sophmore and he got called for an illegal stick and we lost to Agoura?

No, I was thinking about Cate losing for the first time to Foothill because of a short shaft call that turned a 9-7 lead into a 9-10 deficit.

But the examples abound, don't they?

[cali feeder]

No, I was thinking about Cate losing for the first time to Foothill because of a short shaft call that turned a 9-7 lead into a 9-10 deficit.

But the examples abound, don't they?

Ahh I see. Short shaft call eh? Haven't seen that one happen yet.