Penalty-Reporting Mechanic Survey

[LaxRef]

Team B, who is defending to goal to the left side as you face the table, commits a slash. Team B is wearing white. When you report the penalty, which way do you point when announcing the penalty was committed by "white"?

[MElaxRef]

Assuming that the penalty is on Team B, I point at the Team B bench, while seeking eye contact with the scorekeeper.

[shrekjr]

Assuming that the penalty is on Team B, I point at the Team B bench, while seeking eye contact with the scorekeeper.
I agree. I don't point when relaying to my partners because it is usually obvious, but when reporting to the table, I point toward side of table where the team bench is located.

[Shorelax]

When reporting a penalty to the scorekeeper I do not point..but repeat everything twice.

What about loose ball technicals? Which way do you point?

[LaxRef]

When reporting a penalty to the scorekeeper I do not point..but repeat everything twice.

What about loose ball technicals? Which way do you point?


"Loose push! Blue Ball!" and point in the direction Blue is attacking.

[CardinalPuff]

when reporting, i do not point....color, number, infraction, time to be served.....

but when giving the direction, do not forget to tuck those thumbs!

[pboyd]

Time serving penalty "Color, Number, Penalty, Time" - no pointing

Non-time Serving: "Loose ball, Push, Blue" - point in direction Blue team is attacking.

[Rileylax]

...you know pointing is not polite! :chair:

[inblack]

call color, number and foul
award possession and point in direction of the team now gaining possession. call 'blue balllll' (extra l's for emphasis)

Pointing 'White'
then awarding 'Blue' confuses everyone.
Fans, coaches, players, none of them listen!
they see the point -assume that this is now the team in possession ....

[LaxRef]

call color, number and foul
award possession and point in direction of the team now gaining possession. call 'blue balllll' (extra l's for emphasis)

Pointing 'White'
then awarding 'Blue' confuses everyone.
Fans, coaches, players, none of them listen!
they see the point -assume that this is now the team in possession ....

Are you stating this for all fouls, or only non-timeserving fouls?

[Woodenstick]

I would think that a pointing mechanic would be a lot more useful for games with a crowd (HS varsity and above). Below that level it isn't so necessary. I wonder if our split in mechanics in part reflects a split in types of games worked. Of course, if a pointing mechanic is going to be used, it would be helpful to have a uniform direction to point!

[inblack]

well more in general.

I would only ever point to the color of the team serving penalty if I were on the bench side transferring the call to the timers. this way its clear what is being said as i am close and speaking to people who know (and need to know) whats happening, the timers and the coaches
But this is already mentioned above in sherkjr's post. -- didn't want to repeat it.

For a simple non-timeserving foul -- generally i'm 'White Push!, (Foul signal) Blue Ball!' and point blue. Down field in the direction that they will be attacking.
I'll communicate directly to the players whom actually committed the foul. and the coaches should they ask.

[LaxRef]

For a simple non-timeserving foul -- generally i'm 'White Push!, (Foul signal) Blue Ball!' and point blue. Down field in the direction that they will be attacking.
I'll communicate directly to the players whom actually committed the foul. and the coaches should they ask.

I think saying two colors is confusing to the players. I'd go with "Push! Blue ball!" and a point in the direction blue is attacking, and everyone will know the foul was on white.

[inblack]

good point!

But this is how I have always done it.

[laxfan25]

I must be honest and say that I also tend to call it like inblack, Green push - White ball, and I've never seen any confusion on anyone's part. It's just how I've always done it - but that could be why I haven't gotten any NCAA D1 Cahmpionship assignments!

[geezer]

As a new guy, after mixing up my whites and blues a time or two (or more), and causing general confusion, I decided on LaxRef's way. I only have to announce what the foul was and who gets the ball (and which way to point). That reduces it to the info the coaches need to adjust to the situation: who gets the ball. Makes life easier, it seems to me.

[TBALAX]

When in doubt follow the established procedure: See October 2006 Officials Training Manual pg. 65 "Making and Reporting the Call"
Mechanic 12

"Personal fouls with possession by the team that was fouled:
Turn toward the table and announce the folllowing information:
- The uniform color of the offending player (point toward that color goalie). "
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[LaxRef]

When in doubt follow the established procedure: See October 2006 Officials Training Manual pg. 65 "Making and Reporting the Call"
Mechanic 12

"Personal fouls with possession by the team that was fouled:
Turn toward the table and announce the folllowing information:
- The uniform color of the offending player (point toward that color goalie). "

Hey, I'm glad someone is reading that, since I wrote it!

You've actually unearthed the reason for this whole survey: that's what I put in the book—and others who reviewed it didn't say anything about it, but in some mechanics discussions I've learned that many people don't do it. I wanted to get a feel for whether other people do it the same way I've always done it or if I'm on an island.

The whole thing makes me wonder how I got started doing it. My guess is that it's either a regional thing or that it was something the guy who trained me used to do. When I make something up, I'm usually very conscious of it, so I don't think this is something I came up with on my own.

[Snake~eyes]

I don't do it, I just verbalize color. In my opinion, if you're going to point, it should be to the bench (not the goalie as that just causes confusion to the already clueless bench staff).

[shrekjr]

but when giving the direction, do not forget to tuck those thumbs!
Always tuck the thumbs!

[eme]

I always point towards ShrekJr to indicate I haven't a clue what he is calling....

[LaxRef]

Always tuck the thumbs!

The "tuck the thumbs" thing strikes me as an arbitrary rule that serves no meaningful purpose than the give evaluators who don't have any useful criticism something to pick on you for. Besides, I don't think the thumbs are tucked in the official NCAA and NFHS signals in the rule book.

This is similar to criticizing an official who throws his flag 20 feet in the air for not throwing it 30 feet. Throwing it any higher sure doesn't help the players, who are wearing visors, and if the coach missed the flag (and you yelling "flag down!) when it went 20 feet I don't think the little extra time for it to go 30 feet will make much difference (every extra 10 feet adds less flight time than the previous 10 feet).

[Woodenstick]

OK, I will admit my total ignorance.

Official training manual - is this something new, or just a new edition? (I will feel a lot better if you say it is new).

Who gets copies of this?

Is it online?

Who is it "official" for?

[LaxRef]

OK, I will admit my total ignorance.

Official training manual - is this something new, or just a new edition? (I will feel a lot better if you say it is new).

Who gets copies of this?

Is it online?

Who is it "official" for?

It is the "US Lacrosse MDOC Officials Training Program Level 1 & 2 Training Manual," which is how we train new officials. If you've been around for a few years, you wouldn't necessarily have heard of it.

It is not online; it's purchased as a package through USL (manual, rule book, patches). It can only be ordered by authorized trainers, although we've done things like arranging to sell just the manuals to the state of Michigan (well, their high school league) so they can use it for their officials training programs.

[massref]

The thing strikes me as an arbitrary rule that serves no meaningful purpose than the give evaluators who don't have any useful criticism something to pick on you for. Besides, I don't think the thumbs are tucked in the official NCAA and NFHS signals in the rule book.

This is similar to criticizing an official who throws his flag 20 feet in the air for not throwing it 30 feet. Throwing it any higher sure doesn't help the players, who are wearing visors, and if the coach missed the flag (and you yelling "flag down!) when it went 20 feet I don't think the little extra time for it to go 30 feet will make much difference (every extra 10 feet adds less flight time than the previous 10 feet).

"tuck the thumbs" - STYLE POINTS!!!!

[shrekjr]

I always point towards ShrekJr to indicate I haven't a clue what he is calling....
All you need to know is that I'm going to the table to assist the pretty girl who looks like she needs help. If I'm the trail and you don't see me on the field, remember that table volunteers are also "officials" during the game and I am probably there "training" them. And sometimes, I have to make up a call just so I can go help the table. When in doubt, I'm hanging out in the box looking for a delayed substitution! :naughty:

[Rileylax]

based on Shrek's comments, next year we will be making the center official (on 3-man) on the bench side. That way he can spend more time "mentoring" ans "assisting" those pretty young thangs!! :imparied: :naughty:

[3rdPersonPlural]

I have to work a bit on the clarity of my hand signals. When I check the scorebook after the game, almost all of my calls are logged as "Vogue" because my gestures looked so Madonna-like.

The scorekeeper must think I'm SO 15 years ago.......

[TBALAX]

Reference the manual question above. Maybe a process needs to be in place where everyone gets access to the training manual both old and new to level the field of knowledge. Whats the use of spending all that time creating a training manual if only a small portion of all referees get it to see it or know it exists. It should be used each year for as part of formal continuation training for all.

There are machanics called out that are supposed to be universal that many don't know exist. They do "it" (whatever "it" is) the way the trainer taught the action or how the individual has modified it on their own over time.

Possible way to fix the problem: This year after US Lacrosse makes their training fund budget it gets posted as a PDF for all to pull down and print out. Post the plan in the new newsletter. Next year any changes get put out as change pages only on PDF for all to use. All new referees are required to purchase the new edition in the new guy pachage thus allowing two things to happen. US Lacrosse continues to get funding via training package sales and more importantly you have established a base line of knowledge for all to follow and the game becomes more consistant for both players and referees no matter what part of the country they hail from.

[LaxRef]

Reference the manual question above. Maybe a process needs to be in place where everyone gets access to the training manual both old and new to level the field of knowledge. Whats the use of spending all that time creating a training manual if only a small portion of all referees get it to see it or know it exists. It should be used each year for as part of formal continuation training for all.

There are machanics called out that are supposed to be universal that many don't know exist. They do "it" (whatever "it" is) the way the trainer taught the action or how the individual has modified it on their own over time.

Possible way to fix the problem: This year after US Lacrosse makes their training fund budget it gets posted as a PDF for all to pull down and print out. Post the plan in the new newsletter. Next year any changes get put out as change pages only on PDF for all to use. All new referees are required to purchase the new edition in the new guy pachage thus allowing two things to happen. US Lacrosse continues to get funding via training package sales and more importantly you have established a base line of knowledge for all to follow and the game becomes more consistant for both players and referees no matter what part of the country they hail from.

These are tricky issues. I don't think the pay-for-training-manual model will change anytime soon. However, in the next year the plan is to release a US Lacrosse Mechanics Manual, covering all levels of play, which will be available for free as a .pdf and updated whenever necessary. My goal is to have it ready well in advance of the 2008 season. I hope this helps.

[TBALAX]

Sounds like a great plan. How can all your friends in this forum help?

[LaxRef]

Sounds like a great plan. How can all your friends in this forum help?

I'll post stuff for review occasionally.