Multiple Fouls Same Player

[eme]

Player A1 receives a 1 min Slashing penalty. Play resumes.
A1 now screams an obscenity heard by most.

Rferee assesses the penalty to the in-home, A2, so now Team A is two men down.

Correct procedure? Explain your answer....

[3rdPersonPlural]

Eh! In federation a dead ball foul is assessed against the player committing the foul whenever that can be determined. Cussing (USC) is a 1 to 3 minute NR, so I'd add 1-3 NR to the 1 releasable for slashing to A1.

1 man down for a long time.

2 men down for up to 1 would be a nice option, though. Will that work in Fed.?

[avo]

Normally would only be adding time to existing penalty for USC.

However, if slash was player's fifth personal, disqualifying him from game, then I could see additional penalty being served by in-home.

[Woodenstick]

If A1 is serving the penalty, the rulings for rule 7 (NCAA and NFHS) seem clear that A1's second penalty is added to his time and his team is 1 man down for the duration of the 2 penalties.

If A1 received a penalty and then was substituted out so A3 was serving his penalty time, the rule seems less clear to me. The rule on team penalties states that when a substitute (which now includes A1) gets a penalty, the in-home (A2) serves the penalty, although the penalty is against A1 for the record and he still can't go into the game. This team penalty rule arguably means that if A1 is a substitute when he gets the second penalty, the result is the A team is down 2 players, namely A3 and A2, each of whom serves 1 penalty. I think that the result should be 1 player down, but it seems to me that the issue is not clearly addressed by the rulings.

[eme]

Woodenstick raises the issue I was questioning:

Rule 7-4 NCAA page 85 says, "If a foul is called...against someone other than a player in the game, the official shall select the in-home and assess the penalty time."

Thus, do you consider A1 in the penalty area serving time as a "player in the game"?

I would.

Rationale: We consider a full team at the beginning of the book to be the players on the field as well as anyone in the penalty area.

[laxfan25]

I agree, ding A1 for the USC, but Woodenstick said that A is down for the duration of the penalties, which is not correct. Once he gets the NR, that moves to the forefront, and he HAS to serve that minute - you then go into the releaseable time that remained on the original slashing call.

[eme]

Keeping this theme going...

Subs A1 and A2 leave the bench area and enter a fight. They are ejected.
So, in-home and next attack player on the roster/lineup serve the 3-min. NR penalties, right?

[laxfan25]

Keeping this theme going...

Subs A1 and A2 leave the bench area and enter a fight. They are ejected.
So, in-home and next attack player on the roster/lineup serve the 3-min. NR penalties, right?
Jeesh, I hate it when you've got to pore over the book for 10 minutes to find the reference...
If multiple fouls of this type occur, or if the in-home is already serving a penalty, the referee shall assess the penalty time against an additional attack player who shall be the one whose name appears closest to that of the inhome in the official scorebook.
So yes, I believe you are correct.

[Woodenstick]

Woodenstick raises the issue I was questioning:

Rule 7-4 NCAA page 85 says, "If a foul is called...against someone other than a player in the game, the official shall select the in-home and assess the penalty time."

Thus, do you consider A1 in the penalty area serving time as a "player in the game"?

I would.

Rationale: We consider a full team at the beginning of the book to be the players on the field as well as anyone in the penalty area.

I think we agree that if A1 is serving the penalty, he is treated as in the game. The rulings actually discuss a penalty incurred on the way to the penalty area or for leaving the penalty area early; in both cases, A1 serves consecutive penalties. It would seem that the same principle should apply to a foul by A1 while actually in the penalty area. [NFHS rulings 7.2 A,C and D]

But what about if A3 is subbed for A1 after a penalty and then A1 commits another penalty while A1 is on the bench and A3 is serving A1's penalty? Is this served by 1 player or 2?

[LaxRef]

I think we agree that if A1 is serving the penalty, he is treated as in the game. The rulings actually discuss a penalty incurred on the way to the penalty area or for leaving the penalty area early; in both cases, A1 serves consecutive penalties. It would seem that the same principle should apply to a foul by A1 while actually in the penalty area. [NFHS rulings 7.2 A,C and D]

But what about if A3 is subbed for A1 after a penalty and then A1 commits another penalty while A1 is on the bench and A3 is serving A1's penalty? Is this served by 1 player or 2?

There is actually no such thing in the rules as "subbing for a player serving a penalty." In practice, we often allow A1 to go to the bench and A2 to take his place with about 5 seconds left in the penalty if A2 is going to be going on for A1 when the penalty expires, but there's no rule allowing that in NCAA or NFHS.

BTW, if a coach gets a second USC, the penalty time is served by a second attack player under NCAA rules. (In NFHS, of course, the coach just gets the rest of the night off.)

[Woodenstick]

[QUOTE=LaxRef]There is actually no such thing in the rules as "subbing for a player serving a penalty." In practice, we often allow A1 to go to the bench and A2 to take his place with about 5 seconds left in the penalty if A2 is going to be going on for A1 when the penalty expires, but there's no rule allowing that in NCAA or NFHS......QUOTE]


Thanks, another rule I didn't know!

[inblack]

to what laxref is saying:

Up here ....
In a case where there is blood evident on A1, or A1 is being tended to by a trainer we would allow A2 (the in home, or another attackman) to serve his penalty time.
However A1 is not permitted back into the game until all his penalty time has been served.