team not being a team

[sarahcoop6]

I'm a coach. and well...
to make a long story short, captains were announced and some of the girls are not happy (mostly the girls who were not voted/selected by the coaches to be captains... they're talented, just not leaders... or very nice when it really comes down to it- bad-mouthing other players etc.) These girls are bringing the team down, crowding it with stupid high school drama... I've already told them that they need to be a team on the field and that I could care less if they even speak in school... BUT, these girls are NOT playing as a team OR being very nice to one another... any ideas on how I can "make" them? Any good drills? I already place them on teams with girls they don't usually hang out with... I don't really feel like pulling a "Miracle" (the movie based on the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team) and making them sprint until they vomit... so now what?

anything is appreciated

ps. if there's already a thred on this, please let me know... I didn't really know what to search...

[laxiceman]

Bench the troublemakers.

[ptdlax]

Cut them. No matter what you do, they will not change. They will be a detriment to your team all season and the other players will know you let it happen, especially the captains.

[aLAXc5]

If your in a position to cut them then I would...no one wants players like that on their team...i had a coach once who use to refer to people like that as cancer(there bad attitude speads through the team). If your not in a position to cut them or bench them...actually have a one on one meeting with them...and your other players so they are not singled out. You could explain to them why the decision was made and what you expect of them this season and if they do not agree with what you are saying then they can quit...something like that might work. I think alot can get a cross to a player with a one on one meeting...for all players not just the trouble makers. GOOD LUCK!

[sarahcoop6]

thanks y'all. we had a meeting today staying that they need to be a team and that if they're not, or aren't playing like one, then they get to ride the bench... and the main "trouble maker" told her friends that she felt "attacked" which is good. 1) i don't need a player like her on my team, so if she wants to quit, she can (even if it is JV) and 2) if she felt personally attacked, then she knows she's the one that needs an attitude adjustment. easy as that.

thanks for y'alls help.

[SawyerLaxGirl44]

Honestly, tell them to stop whining and get over it. Captaiin isn't everything, they're on the team and that should be good enough. If they're only upset because they didn't get the title, it proves even more why they don't deserve to be captain. So tell them to get over it and it's a team effort... Or to leave your team.

[orygun_lxr]

Hi. Well I was looking through this forum and I saw this thread and it definately applies to my team. This season is the first season for the Fort Bend Lady Rangers and we're having difficulty with people being dedicated to the team. I know that the team is brand new and that lacrosse isn't a very big sport here in texas and that since they are new to the game, they don't really know what they are doing. But as captain I feel like I should do something to motivate them more and teach them to love lacrosse the way I do. It's really upsetting because my coach puts so much time and effort into the team and the outcome and sportsmanship is horrible. Does anyone have some advice?


Thanks,
-Alex

[Nautidawg]

I am pretty new to lacrosse, but not new to team sports and working with teens/young adults. I am in grad school right now and I am getting my Masters in Sports Admin and Student Affairs leadership... I say this simply to quantify my opinions.

I am a big fan of studying leadership and the effects on youth/young adults. I would disagree, respectfully of course, with some of the posts that say to cut the players. Benching is respectable, but cutting these young adults will simply not teach them a lesson.

You have to get these girls to "buy into" your program. Yes they wear the jerseys and are "on" the team, but are they a "part" of the team? I would say no. There is no way to force this, but some tools to help build team unity.

I would look into such events as off-field team gatherings. Make them feel one off the field and the results will carry onto the field in ways you could never imagine. Even such events as a weekly dinner or social gathering will work. Also, team building excerises (ie, trust falls, ropes courses) will get them off the field and learning to work together.

I think that if you can convince them that THEY, yes even the trouble makers, MAKE up a crucial part of the team and the chemistry they might just turn them around. Benching them will also show that though they are "on" the team, that doesn't mean they get to fully participate or share in the joys. They will soon long to re-join.

Just some thoughts from a young buck... take them or leave them I wish you luck!

-the Dawg!

[DutchyLacrosse]

That's amazing advise^^

[Nautidawg]

thanks... every once in a while I come up with something useful! ;-)

[NHLaxDad]

I coach middle school girls, and these problems start then and don't go away. I think the first thing you have to realize is that as a coach, you will have to spend a lot of time team building. There's a book called "101 Teambuilding Exercises" that I have found to be helpful. Another is Tony Dicicco's book "Catch Them Being Good" which is about coaching women's soccer, but the lessons all apply. Another helpful book (to me) is "Lucky Every Day" about the Loyala women's coach with terminal brain cancer. I wouldn't hesitate to assign reading and have them discuss it in the middle of practice. You might be the most important teacher they have, so be prepared!

[2ifbyc]

Nautidawg has it right on the money.

This is my first real post after spending months reading the contributions of others. I chose this thread as my entry point because it is a subject I am passionate about.

I, like Nautidawg, would respectfully disagree with cutting the players. I have coached numerous youth through high school girls lax teams and have run into the same situation more times than I can recall. Our job is to coach. Just as you would help a player with the fundamentals of passing and catching, it’s our responsibility to help our players with the fundamentals of teamwork and leadership. If our first instinct is to cut, what does that say about our own fundamentals? Developing those difficult players is a coaches version of players working their non dominant hand, spending extra time on the wall, and doing one more sprint than is required. As a player, I can’t say I enjoyed the extra work, but I knew it would pay off in the long run. As a coach, I can’t say I enjoy the extra work of addressing difficult players, but it pays off in the long run (and in ways you can’t expect).

If a player is being purposefully difficult, they are most likely doing it to get attention. The easiest way to correct this is to ignore the behavior that is not helpful, and praise and reward the behavior you want to see. The more you as a coach do this, the more the rest of your team will emulate your behavior. Be consistent with this across all of your players (and other coaches if you have them) or else it will not work. This includes not rewarding other players for informing you about how the trouble player is feeling about what is happening. If you want to know how your meetings, speeches, or actions are affecting a player, pull them aside and ask them. Be honest with them and you might be surprised with how honest they are with you. By doing this, you build trust with each player individually and over time, become trusted by your team.

Give the challenging player concrete reasons and examples of why the current captains hold their position. If you can’t give concrete reasons and examples for your decisions about the captains, re-evaluate your process. If the challenging player really wants to be a captain, set concrete goals for her to achieve that could help her to attain the position in the future. Once you have given her goals (having her help develop a less skilled player as an example) get and give regular feedback on her progress. Let her tell you what she thinks is working and what is not. You are still the coach so your guidance is final but it should help her feel validated for demonstrating the qualities you believe she is currently lacking.

One final thought. I have to constantly assess my own coaching ability. I applaud your desire to seek the advice of others. It is easy to get stuck believing that as a coach you have it all figured out. By asking others for help or feedback, you are demonstrating the same qualities you want to develop in your players. Funny how that works out.

Let me know if you still need some activities as I may have one or two that may help.

Just my own thoughts. Use them or not. I’m done carrying on now. Good luck!

[ques]

I would never justify why anyone was a captian. All you have to is let the players know why they are not. Never compare players to another player it will come back to bite you. You let the challenging player know what they have to do to improve and that is all you owe them. I have been there and I wish I could have cut players instead I had to deal with them all season and it was a cancer on the team. If you have younger players that could take their places and deserve to be there then cut these players as fast as you can. You do not need to have them bringing down the team while you are trying to change them. If you can even change them you have wasted time doing it and they will not change over night. What also can happen is they will form cliques which you will have to try and breakup. To me it is not worth the frustration and the team will be better for it. Plus it will also send a message that you will not put up with it so it will help in future. Good luck!! :devil:

[sarahcoop6]

thanks you guys! those were AMAZING replies!

[Nautidawg]

thanks you guys! those were AMAZING replies!


Hey... so I would really like to know what happens with this and how things go. Will you keep us posted on progress?

-the DAWG

[tshea]

I have to weigh in on the side of cutting (or at least benching) the problem girl(s). Removing them from the team would be an option only after speaking with them, letting them know that the attitude is unacceptable and giving them a chance to rehab. But, I do agree with the posters who think that people like that generally will not change.

I do not want to go too deep into gender differences but I believe that a number of young female teen drama issues are driven so far by ego and peer issues that competitive fire and a passion for the sport are not factors. If she were a true competitor she'd be trying to prove herself on the field. By running her mouth and trying to undermine the coach and the captains, and getting other players to "be on her side", she is simply being manipulative and feeding personal needs (seen enough of 'em over the years). With guys, you can have a fist fight off the field then come together and play hard with each other. With girls, you can blow a game because the entire team will go into a deep funk if one player breaks up with her boyfriend. Totally different worlds. Anyhow that is why I would advocate to cut the problem from your team.

Things we have seen/done to promote team building:
Work with the captains (you need to underscore here the importance of the captains since the problem children are trying to undermine them) to develope a "play" day one practice, by surprise. I would think that the drama is making the practice not fun. Pick a day to ditch work and have fun. Use water balloons instead of balls for drills. Award little stickers on the poles for winning goofy relays (include a slip n slide if its warm enough out). Have a treasure hunt for little items (ribbons etc). Finish with pizza deliverd to the practice field. Again, have your captains help in planning (in secret) and carrying it out.
Plan an evening teambuilding event (word of caution - don't let it include girls who drive in cars with girls who don't :-)). Go to a local mall and run a scavenger hunt. Have the girls finish up with a pot luck dinner at a players house - or yours.
Any thing along this line that will vest the team leaders with a role in carrying this through, and build a sense of fun, will go a long way. The more the group sees positive things coming along, on and off the field, the less credibility the trouble maker(s) will have.

This is not an uncommon problem. I hope that it clears up. Keep us posted and good luck with your season!

[allilizzylax]

Some great posts here! The crap there girls are trying to pull has very little to do with sports. Sure, if they wanted to make captain, they have a right to be disappointed. BUT...then trying to undermine the team, the coach, and the captains is not cool. And absolutely not acceptable. Right now, they are probably getting an audience for their complaints. You, as coach, must find a way to remove that audience, or at least reduce it drastically. And, just as if a player has flawed fundamentals, you would take her aside and tell her what she needs to work on to get better. Same with these girls. You must take them aside individually, and calmly (even though you want to wring their pretty little necks) tell them what you expect of them as members of the team and what they need to work on. Give them the if/then. The "then" first step is benching if they don't get their act together. Next comes cutting, or whatever you feel comfortable with. The consequences must be spelled out. Follow through. Calmly confront their crap. (After all, who is the adult here?) Right now they think that they are getting away with it, and that they will not be challenged, because too many coaches try and ignore the problem, hoping it will go away. It won't, unless you step in.

I cannot agree more with tshea, EXCELLENT suggestions as to getting the rest of the team to see the captains as leaders, as the good guys, and have confidence in them. Because that also will reduce the whiners' audience-who cares what a whiner says when you have good captains? You have to let the captains play "good cop" sometimes-after all, they (the captains) are there not only to disseminate your coaching requirements and be your whips, etc., but to be advocates for the team with you. Too many coaches forget that last part-so the captains are seen as suck-ups, mean, don't care about the girls on the team, blah blah blah. If the girls on the team can't go to their captains about something that is bothering the team, and be able to bring it up with you, without fear of repercussions, you have failed them as a coach. And you are gutting your captains' leadership potential. Make those team members glad that they have such great team leaders, that the right choice was made. They'll also have confidence in their coach. And hey, that works too!

[allilizzylax]

Umm, and by whip, I mean in the political sense-to assist the coach to coordinate ideas on and garner support for team policies, etc. Sigh. I've lived in the DC area too long...

[sarahcoop6]

Well, the head varsity coach and I spoke to the girls, had a team bonding thing...
We started with asking the girls what they noticed about the varsity game (they just watched them play the day before). We got answers like -passing, cheering, communication, good fundamentals... TEAMWORK.

Then, we put them in a circle shoulder to shoulder and they all went around and said why they liked the person to the left of them (in lacrosse), then we made our point that EVERYONE on the team has something to offer, whether it's a great attitude or great skills.

They learned a cheer that they use at games etc. and then the Varsity coach and I told the girls that if they're not a team, they'll be benched... that we don't want it to come to that, but if we have to, it will happen.

SO, we had a game, and they lost due to our missing GK and the fact that they were lacking team work... HOWEVER, a few days ago, the "problem girl" apologized to the team for creating drama, and they've been significantly better since then.

[cali feeder]

I am pretty new to lacrosse, but not new to team sports and working with teens/young adults. I am in grad school right now and I am getting my Masters in Sports Admin and Student Affairs leadership... I say this simply to quantify my opinions.

I am a big fan of studying leadership and the effects on youth/young adults. I would disagree, respectfully of course, with some of the posts that say to cut the players. Benching is respectable, but cutting these young adults will simply not teach them a lesson.

You have to get these girls to "buy into" your program. Yes they wear the jerseys and are "on" the team, but are they a "part" of the team? I would say no. There is no way to force this, but some tools to help build team unity.

I would look into such events as off-field team gatherings. Make them feel one off the field and the results will carry onto the field in ways you could never imagine. Even such events as a weekly dinner or social gathering will work. Also, team building excerises (ie, trust falls, ropes courses) will get them off the field and learning to work together.

I think that if you can convince them that THEY, yes even the trouble makers, MAKE up a crucial part of the team and the chemistry they might just turn them around. Benching them will also show that though they are "on" the team, that doesn't mean they get to fully participate or share in the joys. They will soon long to re-join.

Just some thoughts from a young buck... take them or leave them I wish you luck!

-the Dawg!

Dang. Not bad for a new user.

Thats some of the best advice I've ever seen on this forum.

[allilizzylax]

Good for you sarahcoop6! Sounds like you are on you way to be a really fine coach. I hope that you and your team have a great season-onward and upward!

[RYU]

I read through this whole thread, and it turned out to be a lot more informative than I thought it would. I find there's a stark contrast in the responses between those who have practical coaching &/or management experience and those who do not. A couple quick thoughts...

Rarely can you coach JV the same way you do Varsity. Much depends on the school's program as a whole - e.g., how large, how rich in talent it is. Just know that a lot of JV players are playing for different reasons than Varsity ones do. Benching or cutting a player may work well at the Varsity level, but at the JV level it is often the wrong answer.

Maturity starts at the top and soaks down from there. This may be hard music to face sarahcoop, but I think your team would benefit from an older, more mature head coach. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you sound barely removed from HS yourself, and it shows.

[sarahcoop6]

I guess I've been expecting too much of my team.

Apparently asking them to show up to practice and assuming they all give a crap about the program, the sport, and their teammates is more than these high school girls can handle? I never knew.

And thanks very much, but it's not maturity that I lack, it's experience in a coaching position.

[NHLaxDad]

In reviewing this thread, I noticed there's a lot of talk about captains. I coach a 7th grade team, and I wonder if any of you have opinions regarding captains in that age group? I usually just assign three players to be game "captains," and they change every game.

Having coached for many years, I recognize many of the problems SarahCoop is having. As I mentioned in a previous post, teambuilding is a key. But, as mentioned by others, I think spelling out consequences is very important, generally, at the beginning of the season, and then individually, when problems arrive. I particularly agree that this needs to be done calmly with the offending player, away from the rest of the team.

I think that RYU might have been a little harsh. I'm over 50, and the teenage girl drama stuff still drives me crazy. But as a coach, you also have to learn, and this is really a life long process. SarahCoop, when you look back on this season, identify what you did wrong, and what you did right, and then see if you can figure out how to adjust your style or how you do things. Every coach should do this, every season. It's just part of your "professional growth" as a coach.

We all have to remember that there are very few girls lacrosse coaches out there, and even fewer who will make the effort that SarahCoop has to get help with her team. We should be applauding her, not discouraging her!

[RYU]

I guess I've been expecting too much of my team.

Apparently asking them to show up to practice and assuming they all give a crap about the program, the sport, and their teammates is more than these high school girls can handle? I never knew.

And thanks very much, but it's not maturity that I lack, it's experience in a coaching position.Well now you're learning, and unfortunately, at the JV level you encounter a lot of that. A lot of JV players have no desire to ever ascend to the Varsity team. They may be playing for social reasons to be part of a clique, or simply to fulfill a PE credit, or what have you. There's only so much you can do as a coach w/ players who lack the intrinsic desire to play & compete to begin with. Not even Coach Herb Brooks can help you there.

I coach a 7th grade team, and I wonder if any of you have opinions regarding captains in that age group? I usually just assign three players to be game "captains," and they change every game.I think what you're currently doing is best. It depends on what you expect from your captains though, what actual responsibilities you give them. At the MS level, being captain is mostly a figurehead title or reward.

I think that RYU might have been a little harsh. I'm over 50, and the teenage girl drama stuff still drives me crazy. But as a coach, you also have to learn, and this is really a life long process.I don't mean to discourage, but at the same time one has to face facts, and a fact of life is kids respond to those they view as authority figures, not peers.

If you look and act like they do, they will have trouble taking you seriously. If you've ever seen a 20 y/o prodigy trying to instruct college undergrads or a fresh-faced 22 y/o teacher trying to teach 17-18 y/o HS seniors, then you'd understand.

Someone old enough to be the grandparent to a bunch of Youth laxers should have very little trouble getting them to fall in line. If you do, then you seriously have major coaching & leadership problems.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from coaching lax; there certainly aren't enough to meet demand. However, you have to be willing to confront the inherent difficulties involved, including the ones that may be shortcomings on your own part.

[laxgirl0108]

tell them to work out the problems they have off of the field before they step onto it. if the players cannot at least be pleasant to one another, then animosity with show on the field in their play, no matter how good they may be individually.

[st.joslax10]

no drama for lacrosse.it ruins the teams ability to play good lax so do what you must.

[mdlaxer711]

let the team know that you mean business. individually talk to the girls who cause the drama and ask them to stop the drama or leave the team.

[Nautidawg]

Um... gee thanks!

[dougm]

I'm a coach. and well...these girls are NOT playing as a team OR being very nice to one another... any ideas on how I can "make" them? ...I don't really feel like pulling a "Miracle" (the movie based on the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team) and making them sprint until they vomit... so now what?

why not? ok, maybe its a guy's perspective but c'mon coach, you can only take so much crap. either you suspend them or punish them - there is no other option.

[pennsouthlax]

why not? ok, maybe its a guy's perspective but c'mon coach, you can only take so much crap. either you suspend them or punish them - there is no other option.

That would not even be my last resort... Do you really think making them sprint until they vomit actually builds trust or respect for the coach and makes them want to be apart of the team?

[laxgirl0108]

i agree with pennsouthlax- that will just make them angrier.
i would take a small team day trip or do some sort of team bonding activity or go for that approach

[dougm]

like i said, its a guy's perspective...but a field trip? gee, in my family we don't reward constant bad behavior.

[pennsouthlax]

I know last year on our team we had a similar problem and we walked downdown to get ice cream at the DQ. I'm not saying take a day off to fool around, but spending some quality time with your team off the field puts on a great atmosphere. You'd be surprised.

[JCLaxDefense]

Well you can still have team bonding without missing a practice. Like we have spaghetti dinners the night before a game after practice.

[dougm]

man, i'm out of touch!
look, the point of this thread is what to do w/ players that put themselves above the team. if the team is down on itself - a bad upset, an injured player, academics - then looking for ways to bring the spirit of the team up is well founded. but when the team is not the issue, but certain indiduals are putting the team at risk repeatedly, then either they shape up or ship out.

[pennsouthlax]

Well you can still have team bonding without missing a practice. Like we have spaghetti dinners the night before a game after practice.

Yeah we didn't skip practice. And no, this is not off subject. Quality time with your team is a reasonable action taken towards bringing everyone closer to work together.

[dougm]

i guess being scholastic its not like her teamates could say drop w/ the sh*t and play ball. in mens sports, that attitude of putting the team at risk would eventually create a players meeting of some sort. no harm just laying it on the line - wth is your problem?
again, the thread spoke to a repeat offender(s) that was/were endangering the team. you know you folks are in a bit of shock when it comes to the real world - you pull that stunt @ work and more often or not you'll find yourself looking for a new job.
its better to correct bad habbits now then let them fester into social misfits as an adult.

[laxgirl0108]

okay that makes sense
but with that being said if you think that inflicting physical pain on your players by making all of them run until they vomit, even the ones who are not causing the problems, is going to help, then i would strongly disagree. infact, if you go with that approach, your players will be less likely to open up to you and listen to what you're saying. the important thing is for your players to enjoy what they're doing-that is why we play lacrosse, isn't it? its an awesome sport that's a lot of fun IMO. that doesn't mean you go easy on them, running and keeping in physical condition is extremely important, and working hard will make them have a rewarding season which will in turn be more fun. however, you want to make sure that whatever tactic you use is for their benefit, and will help them to love the sport and have a great experience.
although it sounds like multiple player's attitudes are disrupting the fluidness of their play, ultimately it is up to their parents to correct them behavioraly. If they have crappy attitudes its good to have a serious team talk, etc, but its pretty much impossible to "straighten out" each of the players by the end of the season.
although you may think team bonding isnt a great idea, i can tell you from personal experience that a team that i played for did this during other times than practice, with and without our coach, and it completely turned our team around. it might be worth giving it a try-its good you are so concerned with the well-being and attitude of your team.

[pennsouthlax]

That's what I was trying to get at. Well said.