John Kerry lacrosse star? [Archive]

roughrider

07-29-2004, 11:47 PM

The lower and middle classes, the people who truly need the money, will recieve tax cuts under Kerry's plan. The upper classes, the people who the Bush tax cuts mainly affected, are the ones who's taxes will increase. The top 2% of the population, those who make over 200,000$ a year will be the ones without a tax cut. I am sorry to those priveledged few who will be affected and their daddy will have to buy his new Porsche without the sport package. It really is tragic, huh?

Small businesses already lead the way in the fight against minimum wage. They pay higher on average than the global corportations that back Bush and his croonies, like Wal-Mart. Trust me, I get paid minimum wage bagging groceries and in Washington State our minimum wage is 7.16, which exceeds the federal minimum wage of 5.15. I find it amazing that people could ever survive on 7.16 let alone 5.15, that amount is not a reasonable amount to sustain proper housing, nutritional and medical needs of one person, let alone a family. Men and women all over america are forced to work multiple jobs, degrading jobs-jobs that take time away from their family, all in order to put food on the table and a roof over their heads.

All the people who claim to be supporting the troops and backing Bush should switch over, adding new and more properly trained troops puts less strain on already weakened reserves and national guard members. They are replacing the people whos training and lack of proper equiptment puts them in harms way each day. If we are ever going to turn Iraq into the beaming ray of light in a chaotic middle east, or however Dubya put it, then we are going to need to have more presence there and more international presence there so Iraq doesnt turn into the next Isreal/Palestein where constant fighting is a way of life.

shiftylax

07-29-2004, 11:50 PM

Kerry was on JV.

*snicker*

(I'm not political at all, just tossing a nugget into the fire.)

roughrider

07-29-2004, 11:57 PM

If you dont believe me about the minimum wage statistics how about the US government telling you the same
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
oh, look at Kansas, 2.65$ minimum wage...tsk tsk

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-29-2004, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by roughrider
All the people who claim to be supporting the troops and backing Bush should switch over, adding new and more properly trained troops puts less strain on already weakened reserves and national guard members. They are replacing the people whos training and lack of proper equiptment puts them in harms way each day. If we are ever going to turn Iraq into the beaming ray of light in a chaotic middle east, or however Dubya put it, then we are going to need to have more presence there and more international presence there so Iraq doesnt turn into the next Isreal/Palestein where constant fighting is a way of life.

i'd also like to know how many of you wjo do support bush and iraq actually have a relative who is on or is about to be on the frontlines over there. i have a feeling alot of you would change your minds when you knew your brother could potentially die over a war which we really didnt need to and therefore shouldnt have started.

enjoi

07-30-2004, 12:01 AM

Georgiamiddie, you say anbody but Bush...

I think i'm going to vote Fascist this year.

VOTE FASCIST!

roughrider

07-30-2004, 12:06 AM

so wait, enjoilax, you are voting for Bush?

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 12:29 AM

ok, i cant argue that... politicians make mistakes sometimes... some make alot, and some tend to bend the truth alot and not listen to advisors, and not cooperate with allies... i could go on

roughrider

07-30-2004, 12:40 AM

Under the information supplied to him at the time by the CIA director, FBI and the Pentagon I feel he made a reasonable, ethical choice to invade Iraq. When the information proved to be a lie, forgery inside the CIA and analysis based off of bad sources he admitted he voted wrong. Yet, ethically, he could not endorse pulling out of Iraq. Him being a moral man, realizing that they could not leave Iraq in the chaos they had caused by war, chose to support the troops and support what he had started.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 12:44 AM

ok, no he was NEVER proven to have ties with Al-Qaeda, and i'd like to know when these WMD's were found, bc i never heard that any were found.

roughrider

07-30-2004, 12:45 AM

Ok LaxMiddie32, you and I seem to be on the same page, but you still remain uninformed...there was never any connection between al quaeda and Iraq, that was all a part of the intelligence blunder

roughrider

07-30-2004, 12:56 AM

interesting...touche middielax

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 01:22 AM

ok, in your first link, it says "There were contacts between Iraq and al-Qa'eda, a number of them, some of them a little shadowy. They were definitely there." of course. no where does anyone say anything about saddam. there are terrorist links all over the middle east. if you see anywhere in that article where it says that saddam was linked, lemme know, i may have missed it.

secondly, that article talks about saddam having WMD's in the 1980's not in the past 3 years. that is, unless, i missed something again...

enjoi

07-30-2004, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by roughrider
so wait, enjoilax, you are voting for Bush?

Thats.... not funny, and i hold my voting records private.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 01:41 AM

so they found a random warhead on the side of the road in iraq... does that prove anything... my wise old physics teacher told me once...
you shouldnt assume... you'll just make an *** of U and ME

foo55

07-30-2004, 01:50 AM

how many of you are even old enough to vote?

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
i'd also like to know how many of you wjo do support bush and iraq actually have a relative who is on or is about to be on the frontlines over there. i have a feeling alot of you would change your minds when you knew your brother could potentially die over a war which we really didnt need to and therefore shouldnt have started.

My brother in law is a Marine in Iraq right now and I'm proud that he is doing a great job and I'm praying that he will come home safe when he is done his duty.

Right now we are fighting terrorists who want to kill us, and they want to kill our soliders and innocent people in Iraq because we want them to have the same right and freedoms as we do. Not only do we need to do this, we should have done it a long time ago.

HdGLaxWarrior

07-30-2004, 07:59 AM

My cousin is a Marine and he's currently in Iraq, and he was having issues and fights with his mom all the time so he contacted the local Marine office, and they got him on the bus to Basic Training in a week.

And even though he's over there, it still doesnt change my opinion on Bush or on the War.

My Opinion: Bush is the lesser of the two evils between him and John Kerry. And he acted on sufficent intelligence that later blew-up in his face, but that's not his fault. He doesnt directly talk to the intel people. People blame him for a lot of things that arent his problem. And as far aa the economy being stable when Bush took office, that's an outright lie. I follow CNBC, and all the stock market shows (I actually have $2000 dollars worth of Apple Stock) I dont believe it was completely stable, given the Clinton ordeal. The economy is slowly going up, and I'm fine with that, and you should be too. And the tax-cuts, is the Right thing for us to have tax-cuts for the poor? No, it's the Left thing to do (pun intended) The rich are the people who give back to this country, for instance, they donate a lot of money to colleges so tution doesnt go up. There should be tax-cuts for the poor, but I dont feel that it's that important to address right now. The President has a lot more important things on his agenda.

I think Thrillhouse said it best.

spenny

07-30-2004, 09:55 AM

A few things you won't hear from the democrats"

That The Unemployment Rate Today (5.5%) Is Lower Than It Was In 1996 (6.2%).

That The Inflation Rate Today (1.9%) Is Lower Than It Was In 1996 (2.6%).

That Mortgage Rates Today (5.86%) Are Lower Than They Were In 1996 (7.81%).

Bill Clinton's Making Regime Change In Iraq The Official US Policy.

BTlaxripper

07-30-2004, 10:07 AM

Bill Clinton messed it all up for Bush. The economy problems were showing up, he didn't wave the marriage tax. Terrorism was Clinton's fault, he at once knew exactly where bin laden was, and decided to do nothing about it even though his supervisors told him that terrorism in the US was a growing threat.

Kerry voted for the war in Iraq, but didn't vote for a bill that would allow body armor and more supplies for our troops! What, does he want more Americans to join his "I won 3 purple hearts" gang? Or even die? Coming from a man knowing the harrows of war, that's just couter intuitive.

While Bush may have some slips on his bike, or can't pronounce nuclear right, so what. He's a strong leader. All news stations out there are Democratically biased except for FOX (which claim non pratiality but in fact are Republican) so do they ever broadcast the fact that Bush made partial birth abortion illegal? Don't know what that is? Research it for yourself, because I can hardly post the details on this site. Or the fact that the Dow Jones is over 10000 since god knows when? Or the fact that Bush has recently created 300,000 jobs in America for American workers? No, of course not, you only hear the biased Democratic s*** shoveled into your faces. You think Michael Moore is cool, because he challenges "The man"-- when in fact he distorts the facts, and pieces together things just to sway voters? He's not a politician, He's a director! Why should his opinion be any different than George Lucas? Would you vote one way just because Spielberg or Woody Allen told you to? Or made a movie praising one candidate? Not me.

John Kerry and John Edwards are the two most liberal people in the senate, even abouve Hillary Clinton. Kerry flip flops.. he told one group that he owns about 10 SUVS because buying cars stimulates the economy, they cheered; then he told enviromentalists that "They're really not mine".. they cheered.

So unless you want a red diaper doper baby (a commy who's ideas come from the 60's when everyone was smoking the ganja, or raised by parents who were) leading the country, unless you want gays celebrating marriage as a legal union, unless you want more soldiers dying from lack of funds, unless you want a first lady who can talk about nothing other than herself, than go for it. but don't come crying when the world has significantly changed, and america is on the decline solely because of one man's liberal views on everything.

I'd rather go with a bike-crashing-bad-pronouncer but strong and ::gasp::intellligent man than a man whose campaign relies solely on the flip flopping to appeal to the crowd he's talking to, a man who only exploits the fact that bush can't ride a bike, or crashes his segway:John Kerry.

Bush has proved himself a strong leader, leading us through 9/11 which weakened our economy and spirit, and the event happened not because of him, but the previous (coughcoughDemocratic) president. That's some experience I'll bet on.

And Clinton was a moderate Democrat, if you thought he was bad, wait til you get a radical running the reigns of this country.

Bush-Cheney '04

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
Right now we are fighting terrorists who want to kill us, and they want to kill our soliders and innocent people in Iraq because we want them to have the same right and freedoms as we do. Not only do we need to do this, we should have done it a long time ago.

you're mixin up your facts... i supported the war on terrorism, but the war in Iraq is a completely different war! we're not fighting terrorism in Iraq. we're trying to americanize iraq by bringing our democracy to iraq. we fought in vietnam bc they were spreading the communists were spreading their ideals and beliefs and form of government to vietnam... we didnt agree with their ideals and beliefs and form of government so we tried to flush them out. well, what the hell are we doing? trying to forcefully spread our ideals and beliefs and form of government into iraq. the world looks at america as a bully folks, because thats what we are right now...

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
you're mixin up your facts... i supported the war on terrorism, but the war in Iraq is a completely different war! we're not fighting terrorism in Iraq. we're trying to americanize iraq by bringing our democracy to iraq. we fought in vietnam bc they were spreading the communists were spreading their ideals and beliefs and form of government to vietnam... we didnt agree with their ideals and beliefs and form of government so we tried to flush them out. well, what the hell are we doing? trying to forcefully spread our ideals and beliefs and form of government into iraq. the world looks at america as a bully folks, because thats what we are right now...
What facts am I mixing up exactly? Who do you think is killing our troops and chopping the heads off of innocent civilians right now, the Iraqi Army? THERE ARE TERRORIST IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW!! You can ask my sister; they were shooting at her husband two days ago.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:13 AM

alright, ill address everyone one at a time...

HGD, you think that just because the majority of America isnt as successful (or rather took a major in college which gave them a high paying job) that they shouldnt have to pay as much tax on the money they make? if they really want to give back to america like you say, they'll accept the same tax rate as the rest of america.

Spenny, who cares about 1996? that was 8 years ago. Bush was not handed the economy of 8 years ago. if you're trying to say that clinton (who isnt running for election now, and i dont know why you right wingers keep bringing him back up since he has nothing to do with the election at hand) was doing a worse job than bus, he also wasnt handed a balanced budget and the economy W's dad left clinton was much, much worse than the economy clinton left W.

BTlaxripper, first, i hate abortion as much as the next person as a devoted catholic. yet, when you start banning abortion, you start bringing religion into government. it should be a woman's choice what she does. granted, it's another life we're talking about but whether i woman gets an abortion or not should be up to what she believes in, not what washington believes in. secondly, everyone knows moore is a radical liberal who distorts the facts through his documentaries and no one takes him seriously anyhow. thirdly, you cant honstly blame 9/11 on anyone... not bush and not clinton. sh*t happens... you can try your best to prevent it, but with the international laws in place today, you cant just go after a man bc he is known to have been linked to terrorism in the past and terrorism is a "growing threat". sorry man, i think the rest of the world would frown upon that. finally, take my advice or leave it, but you seriously gotta think before you type some of this stuff... some day, you'll call the wrong man a "commy" and someone isnt gonna like that too much. you're gonna get yourself in alot of trouble saying things like that. you really should think about what you're saying before you type it

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
here's a slogan for your beloved bush... fight for corporatins, esp those who contributed to my campaign (if the rest of you get stepped on, america, well im sorry... thats the breaks)

good thing corporations and rich people don't contribute to Kerry's campaign, right?

Also, remember, Bush is the one who didn't want to open up the reserves in alaska, despite the cries for him to do otherwise....he's probably got some oil angle on it though, right? After all, he is from Texas...must be oil related, right? Also, last time I checked, we didn't discriminate. Apparently no one feels bad if we tax the crap outta the upper class. I hope you can get a good education, work your but off, so you can be part of the people that pay for 40% of america's operating budget. go get 'em.

Also, in terms of abortion, laws are based on morals. Thou shall not kill....there's a law against murder...quite a few in fact. There's no way to get around that one. If you don't believe in abortion just because that's a part of your religion, well, that's pretty bad. If you don't believe in it because it's morally wrong, than that's something else entirely. Why wouldn't you want a law passed on something like this? It's not impeding someone else's religion....

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:16 AM

yes, there are terrorists in iraq, but the reason we are ther is not to fight the terrorists... the terrorists are there so we have to deal with them. even your man bush, proclaimed the war on terrorism and the war in iraq as two different wars.

Dan

07-30-2004, 11:20 AM

Would you rather be Iraq-ized? I didn't think so.

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
yes, there are terrorists in iraq, but the reason we are ther is not to fight the terrorists... the terrorists are there so we have to deal with them. even your man bush, proclaimed the war on terrorism and the war in iraq as two different wars.

So there are terrorist there, they are blowing up car bombs, chopping peoples heads off, staging mortar attacks on our soliders. Are military is fighting the terrorist, but it isn't a war on terror because it didn't start out that way?

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by TheKOB
good thing corporations and rich people don't contribute to Kerry's campaign, right?

Also, remember, Bush is the one who didn't want to open up the reserves in alaska, despite the cries for him to do otherwise....he's probably got some oil angle on it though, right? After all, he is from Texas...must be oil related, right? Also, last time I checked, we didn't discriminate. Apparently no one feels bad if we tax the crap outta the upper class. I hope you can get a good education, work your but off, so you can be part of the people that pay for 40% of america's operating budget. go get 'em.

by the way, bush isnt related to oil just bc he's from texas, but he kinda owns a bit of the oil industry... and im not saying we should tax the crap out of the upper class, im saying that we should get similar tax rates. you get the same percentage of your paycheck taken out as i do get out of mine. and im glad that you worked hard enough to become part of that 40% of america's operating budget, but believe or not, that doesnt make you any better than the teacher around the corner. and, by the way, i plan on doing what i enjoy in life, so im sorry to say ill never know what it's like to lose 10% of 250,000 instead of 10% of 40,000.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:30 AM

raine, when did iraq ever come to america and push their beliefs on us?... oh wait, never

thrillhouse, no, bc we wouldnt have been trying to fight off the terrorists in iraq if we hadn't invaded anyhow. we invaded their turf (with little justification), so naturally, they're gonna force us back out.

i hate being one of the only liberals on this board...

spenny

07-30-2004, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
raine, when did iraq ever come to america and push their beliefs on us?... oh wait, never

oh, wait... ummm September 11, 2001?

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:37 AM

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
raine, when did iraq ever come to america and push their beliefs on us?... oh wait, never

thrillhouse, no, bc we wouldnt have been trying to fight off the terrorists in iraq if we hadn't invaded anyhow. we invaded their turf (with little justification), so naturally, they're gonna force us back out.

i hate being one of the only liberals on this board...

This isn't thier turf, the terrorists came to Iraq after we invaded to fight us.
What do you mean by "so naturally, they're going to force us back out."?

Yeah, where are your boys?

anjang86

07-30-2004, 11:45 AM

Bush has proved himself a strong leader, leading us through 9/11 which weakened our economy and spirit, and the event happened not because of him, but the previous (coughcoughDemocratic) president. That's some experience I'll bet on.

BT: Bush has proved nothing of this sort to me, and if you wanna say I have liberal blinders on then go right ahead. I could easily say that you have your conservative blinders on about Kerry. Bush is a very conservative Republican as well if you haven't allready noticed. And 9/11 was tragic and he 'got us through it' but what president couldnt do that, we are a strong nation and we are strong enough to get over such an attack. If Kerry/Clinton/Gore was in office what do you think would happen differently? Would they say 'ohhh well, we should all just keep worrying and worrying, we'lll NEVER recover, were hopeless america'

And don't even bring Michael Moore into this, most moderate liberals like myself hate this guy as much as you Republicans. See the thing w/ conservatives is that you assume that all liberals are the same. They'll be like 'hey look libby theres a tree why dont you hug it' ... its not even like that... thats why you should never bring Moore into this because I dont think anybody on this forum (cept for maybe Bayhawkslax) supports him

Along those lines, I dont think you should be calling anybody a commy here because thats just facist for you to say something like that. do your ideas come from Hitler? no, was it fair for me to say that? NO, and I apologize for assuming such a thing.

Back to my original point... Bush has proved NOTHING to show me that he's a strong leader, and half the country agrees.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by spenny
oh, wait... ummm September 11, 2001?

oh, wait... ummm iraq had nothing to do with september 11, 2001. we're fighting another war because of that (it's appropriately refered to as the war on terrorism... and i support this all the way).

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
This isn't thier turf, the terrorists came to Iraq after we invaded to fight us.
What do you mean by "so naturally, they're going to force us back out."?

Yeah, where are your boys?

ok, so then you just proved my point... if the terrorists weren't originally in iraq, did we really go to iraq to fight terrorism as you've said?

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:48 AM

About time nrvlc. GeorgiaMiddie2 needs some liberal friends right now.

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
by the way, bush isnt related to oil just bc he's from texas, but he kinda owns a bit of the oil industry... and im not saying we should tax the crap out of the upper class, im saying that we should get similar tax rates. you get the same percentage of your paycheck taken out as i do get out of mine. and im glad that you worked hard enough to become part of that 40% of america's operating budget, but believe or not, that doesnt make you any better than the teacher around the corner. and, by the way, i plan on doing what i enjoy in life, so im sorry to say ill never know what it's like to lose 10% of 250,000 instead of 10% of 40,000.

sorry, I said 20,000, not 200,000. Amazing the difference a decimal or comma makes. Maybe some day though....although not likely.

Also, what you're refering to is a flat tax. That was proposed by perot and part of the reason it was never taken seriously. People aren't all taxed the same. The more your income increases, the more the government takes. I never thought I'd meet a democrat, much less a liberal, in favor of the flat tax...

I don't think you understood what I was saying. Rich people are taxed at a very high level (some approaching 50%) because no only of their wages, but also their investments, property they own, etc. They're taxed in so many different ways, it's crazy. I'd feel the need to become a cpa just to keep up with the taxes I'd have to pay personally by being in that income bracket.

basically, people are being penalized for their professional success. They're not only paying more, but also a way higher percentage, than other people. When people like you start saying how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, I can't understand how that's true. Even if it was, what do you want to do...mess with the economy? The rich people are the ones who provide jobs to the poor.

anjang86

07-30-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
About time nrvlc. GeorgiaMiddie2 needs some liberal friends right now.

yea but now I gotta go to work... but I'll read a book or something so I can come back w/ something intelligent to say...

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by nrvlc
yea but now I gotta go to work... but I'll read a book or something so I can come back w/ something intelligent to say...

how about "liberals suck"?

jk. This board wouldn't be nearly as entertaining if we all agreed.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:59 AM

ok, ill agree with you in that the rich provide jobs to the poor, but the poor are also providing jobs to the rich in a way. your teachers which we all know dont get a whole lot end up teaching those who grow up to be successful. and without those "poor" ppl that the rich employ, the rich couldnt run their businesses. so, we all need each other. neither group can run america by itself

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
ok, so then you just proved my point... if the terrorists weren't originally in iraq, did we really go to iraq to fight terrorism as you've said?

You are argueing in circles right now and I went back and checked everything I said and I never said we went to Iraq to fight terrorism. What I'm saying is that it is, right now, today, a war on terror. The terrorist are terrorizing the Iragi people to try to prevent them from having a choice in what kind of government they live under.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 12:02 PM

ha! as much as the media skews the information in saying that iraq in no way wants us there... the iraqis arent all welcoming us with open arms either. some of them see it as " well, while saddam was here at least we had a somewhat stable environment to live in, and we werent constantly in the middle of battle".

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
ha! as much as the media skews the information in saying that iraq in no way wants us there... the iraqis arent all welcoming us with open arms either. some of them see it as " well, while saddam was here at least we had a somewhat stable environment to live in, and we werent constantly in the middle of battle".

Oh, do you know a lot of people from Iraq, were you there recently and that is what they told you?

I guess that video of our soliders pulling down the statue of Saddam and everyone cheering was staged? And your life was stable unless you were a Kurd in Northern Iraq, but hey, I guess a deadly gassing of women and babies never really hurt anyone.

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 12:09 PM

"some" is not "all" or even "most". And I'd bet a large part of that "some" were people who supported Saddam (members of his family, party, etc) and make up the small part of the insurgents who are Iraqis.

Also, I don't really consider teachers to be poor...I'd say they're quite the middle class....they make more than I do...probably around 28-30k once their in. Also, a lot of places (like SC) will even pay for your college education if you agree to teach for 4 years in a high needs area. There's always a need for teachers, and like most things, the salary will reflect the need, although probably to a somewhat lesser degree. Also, most teachers come from two income households.

spenny

07-30-2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
oh, wait... ummm iraq had nothing to do with september 11, 2001. we're fighting another war because of that (it's appropriately refered to as the war on terrorism... and i support this all the way).

i dont buy it, one of the 9/11 planners was also on the payroll of sadam's intelligence agency. "the eneny of my enemy is my friend" is an arab expression

spenny

07-30-2004, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
ha! as much as the media skews the information in saying that iraq in no way wants us there... the iraqis arent all welcoming us with open arms either. some of them see it as " well, while saddam was here at least we had a somewhat stable environment to live in, and we werent constantly in the middle of battle".

actually a few of the cells still fighting are baathist remnants, but most are al'qada terrorists and other associated terror groups. its the best place in the world for people who want to kill americans, so naturally terrorists from the entire mid east are flocking there.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
Oh, do you know a lot of people from Iraq, were you there recently and that is what they told you?

I guess that video of our soliders pulling down the statue of Saddam and everyone cheering was staged? And your life was stable unless you were a Kurd in Northern Iraq, but hey, I guess a deadly gassing of women and babies never really hurt anyone.

im just gonna stop because we could argue this point forever based on how we interpret the media.

spenny

07-30-2004, 12:35 PM

i find fewer things in the world funnier than democrats protesting media bias.

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
im just gonna stop because we could argue this point forever based on how we interpret the media.

Interpret this...
http://digilander.libero.it/supcomandante/attaccoagliusa/victims/kurd.jpg

KJGJLAX

07-30-2004, 01:06 PM

i like that he plays lacrosse but as long as i live i will never say a good word about Kerry

Petem0ss

07-30-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by shiftylax
Kerry was on JV.

*snicker*

(I'm not political at all, just tossing a nugget into the fire.)

About 60 posts back, Shifty threw a "reality" check. Ball down.

HdGLaxWarrior

07-30-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
Spenny, who cares about 1996? that was 8 years ago. Bush was not handed the economy of 8 years ago. if you're trying to say that clinton (who isnt running for election now, and i dont know why you right wingers keep bringing him back up since he has nothing to do with the election at hand) was doing a worse job than bus, he also wasnt handed a balanced budget and the economy W's dad left clinton was much, much worse than the economy clinton left W.

The economy is better now than it was during the Clinton escapade. I'm glad he's not handling the economy from 8 years ago, because even more people would start wearing flip-flops like they were badges and they were the new Sheriff. Clinton is a HUGE factor in this up coming election. Clinton messed up big time, and everyone blames Bush. It's not right, I know that's politics, but I mean c'mon. If the man doesnt have enough common decencey to admit he made a mistake. Than he's not a man in my opinion.

Clintons new book: My Lie

HdGLaxWarrior

07-30-2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by BTlaxripper
Bill Clinton messed it all up for Bush. The economy problems were showing up, he didn't wave the marriage tax. Terrorism was Clinton's fault, he at once knew exactly where bin laden was, and decided to do nothing about it even though his supervisors told him that terrorism in the US was a growing threat.

Kerry voted for the war in Iraq, but didn't vote for a bill that would allow body armor and more supplies for our troops! What, does he want more Americans to join his "I won 3 purple hearts" gang? Or even die? Coming from a man knowing the harrows of war, that's just couter intuitive.

While Bush may have some slips on his bike, or can't pronounce nuclear right, so what. He's a strong leader. All news stations out there are Democratically biased except for FOX (which claim non pratiality but in fact are Republican) so do they ever broadcast the fact that Bush made partial birth abortion illegal? Don't know what that is? Research it for yourself, because I can hardly post the details on this site. Or the fact that the Dow Jones is over 10000 since god knows when? Or the fact that Bush has recently created 300,000 jobs in America for American workers? No, of course not, you only hear the biased Democratic s*** shoveled into your faces. You think Michael Moore is cool, because he challenges "The man"-- when in fact he distorts the facts, and pieces together things just to sway voters? He's not a politician, He's a director! Why should his opinion be any different than George Lucas? Would you vote one way just because Spielberg or Woody Allen told you to? Or made a movie praising one candidate? Not me.

John Kerry and John Edwards are the two most liberal people in the senate, even abouve Hillary Clinton. Kerry flip flops.. he told one group that he owns about 10 SUVS because buying cars stimulates the economy, they cheered; then he told enviromentalists that "They're really not mine".. they cheered.

So unless you want a red diaper doper baby (a commy who's ideas come from the 60's when everyone was smoking the ganja, or raised by parents who were) leading the country, unless you want gays celebrating marriage as a legal union, unless you want more soldiers dying from lack of funds, unless you want a first lady who can talk about nothing other than herself, than go for it. but don't come crying when the world has significantly changed, and america is on the decline solely because of one man's liberal views on everything.

I'd rather go with a bike-crashing-bad-pronouncer but strong and ::gasp::intellligent man than a man whose campaign relies solely on the flip flopping to appeal to the crowd he's talking to, a man who only exploits the fact that bush can't ride a bike, or crashes his segway:John Kerry.

Bush has proved himself a strong leader, leading us through 9/11 which weakened our economy and spirit, and the event happened not because of him, but the previous (coughcoughDemocratic) president. That's some experience I'll bet on.

And Clinton was a moderate Democrat, if you thought he was bad, wait til you get a radical running the reigns of this country.

Bush-Cheney '04

^^^Exactly what I said!

BUSH-CHENEY '04 w00t w00t!

livin4lax09

07-30-2004, 01:59 PM

oh god, not another bush/kerry debate. I thought I had enough of this at camp with all the little rich 14 year olds defending bush just because their parents like him.

BTlaxripper

07-30-2004, 02:07 PM

[as strongbad would say......

DELETED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan

07-30-2004, 02:09 PM

Well, I guess you missed the point of my question, georgiamiddie. I meant, would you rather live in America with a man like Saddam at the helm, with the same laws? Or, it's fairly obvious, would you rather live in America with your freedom of speech, which we all enjoy, here, and now?

HdGLaxWarrior

07-30-2004, 02:17 PM

Not just any President could get us through it. Yes, we are a strong nation. But we will need guidence in those hours of need. And a recent USA TODAY poll (yes, I read USA TODAY) said that George Bush is thought of as a stronger leader 62-38.

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 02:19 PM

BTlaxripper

07-30-2004, 02:19 PM

okokokok sorry, but he construed my statement

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 02:22 PM

That's fine, just point out how he did that and correct him.

anjang86

07-30-2004, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by BTlaxripper
okokokok sorry, but he construed my statement

if thats what it takes for you to think about what you say then so be it

anjang86

07-30-2004, 02:35 PM

and I dont know if you are saying I'm the stupidest person or if GAmiddie is but the only reason I'm bringing up the whole commie thing is because its a tired old tactic by the Republicans. It's sad that some of them still refer to liberals as commies.

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 02:44 PM

I just went through the whole thread, did I miss something? Who called who a commie?

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 02:49 PM

I think it's sad that liberals actually believe that republicans are all rich fatcats smoking stogies or just the poor uneducated unwashed masses.

aint that right...commie? :laugh

Thrillhouse

07-30-2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by TheKOB
I think it's sad that liberals actually believe that republicans are all rich fatcats smoking stogies

You guys aren't?

Seriously, this was a really good discussion today. I hope they get that political forum up for us so we can keep it going. Who knows, we might be able to solve all of the worlds problems.

TheKOB

07-30-2004, 02:59 PM

well, I'm not rich cat w/ a stogie....the fat can be argued. It would be really cool to have a political forum though...people here are a lot easier to talk to and respond better than the flamers on some of the wide open political message boards.

anjang86

07-30-2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
I just went through the whole thread, did I miss something? Who called who a commie?

BT called Kerry a commie... but whatever

and I really dont know what got me all mad today ...

Raine, one thing, you are a nice guy and all but I have to question your political views a little more than KOB and Thrillhouse, 'President that is trying to save the world' 'Rush limbaugh is a smart man'

I'm sorry but I'm sure some Republicans question all that also, think about it a little Raine.

and I actually like this political discussion it would be better if we could get a little more liberals though, I know they're out there but they just done wanna get involved in all this

Dan

07-30-2004, 04:34 PM

Hey, I think Limbaugh is a brilliant guy when it comes to politics. Of course not everybody agrees with that kind of conservatism, but I don't care. I generally like what he has to say. And, Bush is trying to save the world, believe it or not. He isn't fighting a crusade or whatever like they did in the middle ages, but what he's doing is attempting to change the world for the better. He's in the position to do so. Also, you're comparing me to people that are at least ten years older than me. Of course they know more, and are more educated in politics. I've never even voted. But, I agree about the nice guy. Right back at ya.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by raine
Hey, I think Limbaugh is a brilliant guy when it comes to politics. Of course not everybody agrees with that kind of conservatism, but I don't care. I generally like what he has to say. And, Bush is trying to save the world, believe it or not. He isn't fighting a crusade or whatever like they did in the middle ages, but what he's doing is attempting to change the world for the better. He's in the position to do so.

ok, by now i think we can agree that our viewpoint are just about at opposie ends of the spectrum, but i cant resist commenting on your statements. 1. rush limbaugh is a smart man? please... *cough*illegal drugs*cough*. 2.n it's not bush's job to save the world, especially when the rest of the world doesnt think he should (i.e. the un). why are we wasting american lives to "save the world"? it just doesnt make sense to me...

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by BTlaxripper
wow bro, I've never met somebody as stupid as you. I never called anyone a commy... the r.d.d.b phrase is a phrase used alot in political talk shows, get used to it.... ur a liberal.

i hate to do this, but let me refresh your memory...

and i quote, "So unless you want a red diaper doper baby (a commy who's ideas come from the 60's when everyone was smoking the ganja, or raised by parents who were) leading the country..."

and i know you didnt actually mean it, but i just tellin you to be carefrul what you say sometimes

Dan

07-30-2004, 11:46 PM

Yeesh. Nobody understands the signature. No point in having one, in that case. And many smart people take illegal drugs. I'm not saying it was a good idea, I think it was stupid, but i wonder how many kids here do drugs. I know all my friends from Vermont do. I don't. But, just because a person has taken drugs, they aren't stupid. So there's that.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-30-2004, 11:50 PM

alright, that's my fault. you misunderstood me. i wasnt saying he was dumb for buying drugs from the black market and takin em, i was just pointing that out. well, now that i think anout it... he was kinda dumb for buying frugs off the black market... he had to have known that with his status in the media that he would be caught eventually...

senor_k

07-30-2004, 11:52 PM

start a poll. im curious, too

spenny

07-31-2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
ok, by now i think we can agree that our viewpoint are just about at opposie ends of the spectrum, but i cant resist commenting on your statements. 1. rush limbaugh is a smart man? please... *cough*illegal drugs*cough*. 2.n it's not bush's job to save the world, especially when the rest of the world doesnt think he should (i.e. the un). why are we wasting american lives to "save the world"? it just doesnt make sense to me...

you clearly dont understand addiction, smart and dumb alike are equally afflicted. i'm no fan of rush, but i dont think he's stupid. what about the rampant drug addicton in hollywood where so many of the drug abusers out there are actively compaigning for your pal john kerry?

second as to bush "saving the world", i reccomend you go and study the isolationist movement between the first and second world wars, america's refusal to help stop hitler in the 30s (failure of league of nations) directly leads to WW2.
in my opinion and i have read extensively on the subject isolationism does not work, less so today than in the 30s.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-31-2004, 10:30 AM

the thing about the drugs... im just playin around, tryin to bring up some dirt on the guy... just tryin to have some fun

as for your isolationism comment... you've got your theories and i've got mine. history may show that, but what history cant show is how many lives have been saved from not hunting down "evil powers" that we didnt need to. i've always been a firm believer that you dont go looking for a fight. if a fight comes to you, well then yeah, you have to fight. but, i really hate this pre-emptive war crap. i think it has very little justification.

goalieskcickay

07-31-2004, 10:31 AM

A very funny animated video that you all should watch.http://www.jibjab.com

HdGLaxWarrior

07-31-2004, 11:02 AM

That's already in my Republicans Sound off thread.

But funny none-the-less

goalieskcickay

07-31-2004, 12:33 PM

oh sorry

Pegasus

07-31-2004, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by nrvlc
John Kerry is a bad man!!

and a d-bag

Vector_Joe

07-31-2004, 04:31 PM

Look, I don't care who you all vote for. That is between you and you. But please don't vote for someone because they have or have not played lacrosse... at least not when voting for the most powerful leader in the world.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-31-2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Midfield013
and a d-bag

wow, please grow up

spenny

07-31-2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Midfield013
and a d-bag

if you dont have anything of use to offer dont say anything

post whore

spenny

07-31-2004, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
but, i really hate this pre-emptive war crap. i think it has very little justification.

gee that's too bad, but if hitler had been stopped in the 30s the deaths in the second world war could have been measured in the tens of thousands rather than the tens of millions.

i'm sure the families of all the people killed in WW2 wish something had been done sooner rather than later.

GeorgiaMiddie2

07-31-2004, 05:20 PM

thats a fair point. either way, lives are going to be lost... it's just a matter of which way the fewest number of lives will be lost, and no one truly knows the answer to that.

HdGLaxWarrior

07-31-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Vector_Joe
Look, I don't care who you all vote for. That is between you and you. But please don't vote for someone because they have or have not played lacrosse... at least not when voting for the most powerful leader in the world.

That's a very good way of putting it.

Some people on here are going to support Kerry because he's a lax "star" on JV. Is that possible?

Anyway, you support a politican for his views, policies, things he'd do, and things he wouldnt do. Not because you like what he did in HS.

anjang86

07-31-2004, 05:52 PM

Dan

07-31-2004, 07:32 PM

Well, when I run for president in 2008, even though I won't be 35, high school is all people will really have to look back on for me. So, it's important for us, when we won't have graduated college or anything.

Actually, I'm kidding, as I often do, and since I also won't receive any votes. But, seriously, if Bush played baseball, which I assume he did, I'd vote for him nonetheless. Because, most of us probably did play baseball. Let's face it.

digger

07-31-2004, 07:49 PM

I don't want to comment on the US elections, but as you can see from this thread, there is a demand.

goalieskcickay

07-31-2004, 08:06 PM

Did anyone else read this months Transworld? (snowboarding)
There was a bunch of letters from people about Kerry snowboarding. I liked how this person put it: "If I put a piece of s*** on a board and send it down a mountain, it doesn't make it a better leader, and it will certainly not make Kerry a better leader."

HdGLaxWarrior

07-31-2004, 08:44 PM

That is a good point! I think that's so true.

And yes raine, I did play baseball. But that was long ago (I'm watching 8 crazy nights, and it just got done with that song) And I still enjoy watching it and playing it with friends. If lax was in the fall, and baseball was in the spring, I'd play both.

I still think that just because a man trys to be appealing to more people, you still shouldnt vote for him. If I was a hardcore snowboarder, I still wouldnt support that man.

Pegasus

07-31-2004, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by spenny
if you dont have anything of use to offer dont say anything

post whore

post whore? i've been a member for a month and i hav 10 posts. i guess that means that i've been posting a tremendous amount of posts. i guess i am a post whore, i need to bring down that .3 posts per day down. i posted my opinion on kerry, and i think he's a bad guy and a d-bag as i stated earlier. he is a fraud. he got a purple heart for something that would not even deserve a purple heart. he wanted us to go into iraq, and then wants to cut down expenses of the military. i guess that's pretty cool, send your country into war and then cut their spending money so they have less stuff, that's pretty honorable. and, if i'm not mistaken(i'm not positive about it), but i'm pretty sure he wants to pull out of iraq.

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-01-2004, 12:14 AM

ah, the childish stupidity...

Dan

08-01-2004, 12:26 AM

Well, I used to play baseball until 6th grade. But, I was just making the point about the usual hatred lacrosse players have for baseball players. I'm a die-hard BoSox fan, always. I enjoy baseball.

FredtheCat

08-04-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Midfield013
i posted my opinion on kerry, and i think he's a bad guy and a d-bag as i stated earlier. he is a fraud.

And Bush NEVER lies, right? :concerned

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 12:42 PM

And Kerry NEVER Flip-flops? :concerned

spenny

08-04-2004, 01:23 PM

fred, does this count as lies?

As reported by ESPN's Peter Gammons:
John Kerry last week professed to be a big fan of "Manny Ortez," then re-emphasized the phoofery by correcting it to "David Ortez." No, that was Dave (Baby) Cortez and "The Happy Organ." [Or did he mean the Red Sox's current left fielder "Manny Ramirez" or current first baseman "David Ortiz"?] A few years back Kerry went on a Boston station with Eddie Andelman and said "my favorite Red Sox player of all time is The Walking Man, Eddie Yost," who never played for the Red Sox.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 01:30 PM

^^^^^ That's pretty funny.

roughrider

08-04-2004, 01:39 PM

a lie though? hes just dumb, who cares about baseball anyways

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 01:41 PM

And you support him?

roughrider

08-04-2004, 01:41 PM

/Midfield013, he doesnt want to pull out of Iraq...see if you knew what you were talking about i probablly wouldnt have a problem

roughrider

08-04-2004, 01:44 PM

of course i support him, its either him or george bush, a dumb texan bible humper who is turning the US into his domestic policy playtoy....how can i support someone who puled out out the kyoto treaty (global warming) who cut back logging restrictions on federal forests and authorized mining companys to dump filler wate on federal property

dont even get me started on the patriot act, if any of you ever wants to discuss politics in real time my sn is pimpinjesus22, its easier to debate things that way

spenny

08-04-2004, 01:57 PM

kyoto? are you joking? do you have any idea what gasoline would cost if we had done that? do you also realise that the only countries that supported kyoto had little to no manufacturing base.

come on, even the democrats in congress know kyoto is a discredited joke

roughrider

08-04-2004, 01:59 PM

kyoto was the first step, and democrats on the hill certainly supported it. Global warming is a huge crisis that the Bush admin. is totally ignoring. They dont even acknoledge its exsistance.

spenny

08-04-2004, 02:07 PM

because global warming is based on junk science. its total BS.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 02:14 PM

Notice how all you listed was on federal property, it's not like it was public property. And I'm going to take a dump and spray a lot of Lysol.

FredtheCat

08-04-2004, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by HdGLaxWarrior
And Kerry NEVER Flip-flops? :concerned

My point is, you can't say that one is a fraud and the other isn't...

Dan

08-04-2004, 04:09 PM

The greatest thing about living in Vermont was that we'd hear about global warming, we'd walk outside, and say, "Hey, it's -20 degrees right now!" Man, global warming, all of that, it's dumb. Now, I am opposed to driving freakin' huge SUV's (Now that I live in Utah, and everybody and their grandma has got an SUV the size of Mongolia) and trucks and such. Give me a Toyota any day of the week.

Thrillhouse

08-04-2004, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by FredtheCat
My point is, you can't say that one is a fraud and the other isn't...

What was Bush a fraud about?

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-04-2004, 04:16 PM

oh, gere's one... his military record? the fact that he said he proudly served in vietnam when he actually went awol for a year?

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 04:18 PM

Like Kerry has anything to be proud about? Oh I got arrested at an anti-war rally!

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-04-2004, 04:23 PM

alot of ppl got arrested at anti-war rallies. if you remember, ppl were even killed... who werent even protesting. oh, let's martyr the man for speaking his mind...

and at least the man actually served his term and didnt use his daddy to get him into the champagne unit

spenny

08-04-2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
oh, gere's one... his military record? the fact that he said he proudly served in vietnam when he actually went awol for a year?

facts please? links? you arent going to be allowed to make stuff up here.

did you know that one of kerry's 3 purple hearts came in an action where there was no enemy presence?

"While inCamRahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good oldUSAafter 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-04-2004, 04:25 PM

i did know that. but he still has 2 others.

and, are you kidding me? the fact that bush bush went awol for a year was all over the news when they started questioning each other's military records.

oh, and stonewall jackson was killed by his own men, but no one thinks of him as any less of a man for it...

Thrillhouse

08-04-2004, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
oh, gere's one... his military record? the fact that he said he proudly served in vietnam when he actually went awol for a year?

Prove it.

Dan

08-04-2004, 04:34 PM

Stonewall Jackson's case is entirely different. You read what Spenny posted. Stonewall Jackson was brilliant. That's why he's "Stonewall". Kerry, obviously, hurt himself. And got a purple heart. You can't even compare the two men. I wasn't a fan of the Civil War, but both sides had great men leading the troops.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 04:36 PM

As much as I dont like it:
http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/politics/html/bushawol.htm

spenny

08-04-2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
i did know that. but he still has 2 others.

so its ok to lie to get an award as long as you only do it once?

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 04:41 PM

Why cant I seem to find John Kerry's voting record on his own Senate website. Is he ashamed of his flip-flops?

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-04-2004, 04:42 PM

how do you know that he lied? how do you know that it wasnt a freak accident? and, im pretty sure the government looks into these cases pretty well before they hand out one of the most prestigious awards in the us military. i dont think every guy that stabs himself in the leg gets a purple heart...

and here's your proff, by the way.. http://web.archive.org/web/20000619121358/http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml

Thrillhouse

08-04-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
how do you know that he lied? how do you know that it wasnt a freak accident? and, im pretty sure the government looks into these cases pretty well before they hand out one of the most prestigious awards in the us military. i dont think every guy that stabs himself in the leg gets a purple heart...

and here's your proff, by the way.. http://web.archive.org/web/20000619121358/http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml

You don't get a Purple Heart for a freak accident, you get it for getting wounded in combat.
Let's try an article that's a little more recent, like not from 2000.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040211-121217-6595r.htm

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-04-2004, 06:13 PM

ok, so some old girlfriend of his says he was there doing drills even though she never actually saw him going to work or coming home from it, but hte drill sergeant he was reporting to never saw him? hmmm... i wonder who im gonna believe...

Thrillhouse

08-04-2004, 07:00 PM

Way to skip over everything else. They have records of him doing drills and getting paid for it. The military doesn't pay you if you don't show up.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 07:09 PM

Now who to believe?

BTlaxripper

08-04-2004, 07:22 PM

who cares.... what I care is the candidate's stance on the issues..... 3 or 2 purple hearts... skipped out on national guard..... f it is all i say.......

war in iraq, homeland security, economy, environment (and the joke that is global warming)---- those are what I'm voting on.

BTlaxripper

08-04-2004, 07:25 PM

and o yeah, I wouldn't call the purple heart the most prestigious award the army gives. My great grandfather served in WWII and won a purple heart, but thats not what he's proud of... bronze star? WWII victory Medal? yeah kinda off topic but I had to say that. This maybe harsh, but purple heart is kinda like rewarding disregarding your training. It's like paying a kid to run with scissors. But i honor my veterans and look up to them..... but not everytime you get a purple heart is it because you ran into a burning bunker and saved your buddy and in the process got burned or stepped on a land mine.

roughrider

08-04-2004, 07:25 PM

joke that is global warming?! It may not sound like alot but over the last 50 years the average temperature has increased 3 degrees.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-04-2004, 07:52 PM

The worlds going to heck in a handbasket! 3 degrees?!?! What are we going to do?!?!?!?! Get over it...

roughrider

08-04-2004, 08:07 PM

3 degrees is just the beginning foo, anyways 3 degrees is alot. 35 degrees compared to 32. Obviously ones freezing and one isnt. Ice caps are melting and glaciers, the ocean is warming up causeing the trade currents to stop. This is just the beginning...by 2050 its predicted that all skiing in WA state will be gone except for the remaints of glaciers on Mt. Ranier (a 14,000 foot mountain for you on the east coast)

BTlaxripper

08-04-2004, 11:46 PM

ur just buying into the stuff the hippies are feeding you. It's a scare tactic to go democrat...... and obviously it has worked.

roughrider

08-04-2004, 11:48 PM

If i am buying the hippies agenda I think you are getting bought by the rich oil monopolies

spenny

08-05-2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by BTlaxripper
and o yeah, I wouldn't call the purple heart the most prestigious award the army gives. My great grandfather served in WWII and won a purple heart, but thats not what he's proud of... bronze star? WWII victory Medal? yeah kinda off topic but I had to say that. This maybe harsh, but purple heart is kinda like rewarding disregarding your training. It's like paying a kid to run with scissors. But i honor my veterans and look up to them..... but not everytime you get a purple heart is it because you ran into a burning bunker and saved your buddy and in the process got burned or stepped on a land mine.

you really should think before you speak.

spenny

08-05-2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by roughrider
joke that is global warming?! It may not sound like alot but over the last 50 years the average temperature has increased 3 degrees.

over the last 50 years? what that? half of the history of the earth?
please.
there were temerature fluctuations before man was on this earth.

its a giant warming and cooling cycle and they dont have enough recorded data to make any kind of real predictions. its just a way for scientists to get money to research this crap. so they make money by saying the end is near. if they said "hey no problem here" they wouldnt be given as many research $$$

i dont remember his name but there was some scientist (not a crackpot, a well respected one) who in the early 60s said that by 1970 the earth would be so hot that all the crops were going to die and that water would be so scarse that wars would erupt over having and getting it

i know most of you guys werent around in 1970, but i was and i dont remember anything vaguely like that happening

Dan

08-05-2004, 09:54 AM

It makes me so mad that people say there is global warming. People have been on the earth for 6000 years, according to my beliefs (evolution shmevolution). You don't think it was hotter for a period of time than another? I mean, we should take care of the earth. We should recycle, not drive cars that pollute so much, etc., but there isn't global warming. I'm all for hydrogen powered cars. I'll take a Hummer that's hydrogen powered. More efficient than your Honda.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-05-2004, 12:24 PM

Your just saying what the hippies told you...

It's all a scheme to get money and get more Democrats...

roughrider

08-05-2004, 05:10 PM

right, a scheme to get money. And all those oil backed studies that claimed it never exsisted were for th environments sake. Even if it didnt exsist, our polution problam worldwide needs to be solved. 50% of all asthma cases are polution related. Anyone who has ever been to Mexico City can atest to what polution does to your body. Bush's repealing of the Clean Air act allowing coal companys to not use technology readily available to them to clean the emissions realeased from coal plants is one of many steps George Bush has done to screw with out environment.

Dan

08-05-2004, 05:14 PM

And then you'll jump on Kyoto. Anyway, no, we, the American people, screw our own selves over. Especially in Utah. They don't even recycle. It's totally different from Vermont.

endoftheline

08-08-2004, 02:30 AM

America does not to strenthen it miliatary. It already has the strongest army in the world by a long shot. Even if americas army was to weak to beat another army they have enough allies to run to their aid ie john howard and tony blair the official george w kiss a$$es. America has such a strong army that they go round starting wars for no reason (iraq) or very thin reason (afghanistan)

roughrider

08-08-2004, 02:43 AM

thank you end of the line, however, afganastan i think was more than justified

dclayton28

08-08-2004, 08:00 PM

roughrider you badass you

roughrider

08-09-2004, 12:15 AM

haha
why thank you

TheKOB

08-09-2004, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by spenny
over the last 50 years? what that? half of the history of the earth?
please.
there were temerature fluctuations before man was on this earth.

its a giant warming and cooling cycle and they dont have enough recorded data to make any kind of real predictions. its just a way for scientists to get money to research this crap. so they make money by saying the end is near. if they said "hey no problem here" they wouldnt be given as many research $$$

i dont remember his name but there was some scientist (not a crackpot, a well respected one) who in the early 60s said that by 1970 the earth would be so hot that all the crops were going to die and that water would be so scarse that wars would erupt over having and getting it

i know most of you guys werent around in 1970, but i was and i dont remember anything vaguely like that happening

I think my mom said she had a pretty bad case of sunburn...

Anyways, first, in terms of the scientific community overall, there's a definite lack of concensus on whether it even exists or not. Also, I've heard that despite the 3 degree spike/blip, we're in the middle of a cooling cycle, which'll take thousands of years.

Also, it seems to me that not all that much would happen if the polar ice caps melted anyways. Think about it, an iceberg is only 1/10th above water, like the entire north pole, where there's no land. Also, water expands when it freezes, which means that when it melts, it'll take up less room than when it's ice. Also, a large percent of the earth's surface is covered in water...how much water would it take to raise the ocean levels by even a foot? And that's not near enough to flood NYC or have everything except the rockies covered in water, like the environmentalists and hollywood would have you believe.

spenny

08-10-2004, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by TheKOB
Also, it seems to me that not all that much would happen if the polar ice caps melted anyways. Think about it, an iceberg is only 1/10th above water, like the entire north pole, where there's no land. Also, water expands when it freezes, which means that when it melts, it'll take up less room than when it's ice. Also, a large percent of the earth's surface is covered in water...how much water would it take to raise the ocean levels by even a foot? And that's not near enough to flood NYC or have everything except the rockies covered in water, like the environmentalists and hollywood would have you believe.

Kev, thanks for the update! very nice to see another cherished belief of the junk science movement to go down in flames!

LizardsLaxFan

08-10-2004, 09:23 AM

Bush Screwed up the war by not paying attention to reconstruction.

Wether or not Kerry's Purple Hearts were merited atleast he wasn't a Draft dodger like a certain Pres. of the U.S

Kerry suports Highering the Minium wage so my dad and uncle don't have to work 3 jobs.

Kerry supports Health care for all americans so wether or not you have a home or family you can get good treatment.

And if Kerry was 30 or 40 yrs. younger he could have been a MLL or NLL legend.

One o the Powells or Gary Gait Mite Run:laugh :agree :laugh

So to you GOP Laxers out there :wtf :cussing

nVlax

08-10-2004, 09:42 AM

MOSTLY UNRELATED POST - READ AT OWN RISK

what about antarctica where the majority of the ice is above sea level?
what about the ice in antarctica being much denser than ur run of the mill, more-voluminous-than-water-state ice?
what about the crazy effects that an increase in temperature that's enough to melt the polar caps would have on the rest of the earth? entire systems get thrown out of whack, can humanity really adapt sufficiently to a change that rapid, sufficiently to perpetuate our way of life?
and just for the sake of throwing something not quite related in, what about the huge rocky mountainous mass on the west coast of africa that is slipping 3ft each year, and is predicted to reach a yield point that will cause an inconcievable chunk of land to go sliding into the oceans, causing a fat *** wave to propagate throu the atlantic ocean and do bad things to the north and south american continents?
while we're on natural disasters and stuff, i hear people see the hollywood films and laugh at the meteor impacts and stuff, claiming we can brush it off because its just a big boom if it hits on land or a big wave if it hits on the water. there's plenty of stuff involved in a large scale meteor impact that is usually overlooked, electrical disruptions (its a lot of charged particles going really fast, spread over a really long way) , interference with the ionosphere, triggering of seismic activity, yadayadayada. ur not just talking about a rock going at mach 1 or 2 or something, thats like firing a pellet into a scaled sandpit, it does crap all. take the same pellet and accelerate it to 3km/s (they've done this for research and for modelling such impacts) and fire it from a meter or two away into the same sandpit, u'll glass the whole thing.

RAMBLE OVER

P.S: You can now begin flaming me.

Dan

08-10-2004, 10:40 AM

Good. Let's get the party started. I'm pretty sure that we've already said that it's junk science. But anyway, who cares how fancy Antarctic ice is? There's still now way it could raise the oceans enough to do any damage 'tall. 3 feet a year? Nope, sorry, that won't matter worth poo. And even if something did happen, we'll all be dead, as will the next generation, most likely. And we can't control it, so no use whining about it. And a meteor strike? I can't see that happening, ever. Why are we ranting about stuff we don't have control over? It's like whining about how bad emo is, realizing that there's no way it even could be good.

Also, if you haven't realized, our nation's automoblie giant, GM, is developing hydrogen powered vehicles. I will start buying American cars, in that case. So, my Hummer will be more efficient than a hybrid, or anything, for that matter. A few degrees change doesn't matter. I remind everybody that right now, in Vermont, it's about 70 or so, and it's the middle of summer. And winters get down to -20 degrees, and about -40 wind chill. Not all winter, but for about two weeks. It's freakin' miserable. So, the liberal, tree-huggin', maple-farmin' dead-headed Vermonters are just ignoring what's slapping them in the face. IT'S FREAKIN' COLD.

LizardsLaxFan

08-10-2004, 12:01 PM

That's easy for you to say your out in Utah. Nothing will happen to you. LI will be the first to go.

Dan

08-10-2004, 01:18 PM

Um, I don't plan on staying here. I plan on living in Maryland, or Oregon. So, don't tell me it's easy. It ain't gonna happen.

roughrider

08-10-2004, 02:09 PM

each year the ocean rises 2-3 millimeters, which may not sound like alot, but in 20 years tel that to bangladesh or new orleans or microasia

spenny

08-10-2004, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by roughrider
each year the ocean rises 2-3 millimeters, which may not sound like alot, but in 20 years tel that to bangladesh or new orleans or microasia

that's some bad math there RR, your total rise is a whopping 40-60 millimeters (or 4-6 centimeters) about 2 inches. that wont threaten your sandcastle let alone anyplace else.

remember the quantity of water is finite. it doesnt just keep getting added to, so its not like that rise of the oceans could continue indefinatley

roughrider

08-10-2004, 02:52 PM

2 inches of water...hmmm..well correct me if i am wrong but bangladesh is already below sea level. If 20 years doesnt worry you, think further. this porcess doesnt stop, it only further escalates. We are in some kind of great fall. We must try to stop now before the world becomes too corrupt to live happily. Im sure the oceans will rise more and the temperature will greatily increase when China finally becomes industrialized like N. America and Europe. Face it, the world's outlook doesnt look too promising. Talk about fuzzy math, look at Bush's tax plan.
HA

LizardsLaxFan

08-10-2004, 03:37 PM

Expessially LI we'll be the one of the first to go and there's no way we'll evac in time. I think Hybrids and electric cars are a start but we need more I.E If the artics going to be melting then have the artic weather station folk freeze it up again. Same with the Antartic. Just to be sure? Is there a problem with safe not sorry.

LizardsLaxFan

08-10-2004, 03:45 PM

Maybe we should have tried makin China or N.Korea Demorcratic. They've got Nukes. Y didn't we invade them?? Those chinese comunist are crazy little fu**s. I mean abortion when woman first get pregnant and want an abortion is defendable But when women don't want an abortion and the babies first coming out they jab a needle into its head and kill it. If they read the bible or any other religous book they kill you. When march the same way Martin Luther King did they kill you very painfully. The chinese are WORSE then Hitler and Tojo and Saddam Hussien or anybody else.

Dan

08-10-2004, 04:19 PM

Um, those countries are powerful enough to destroy our nation by pressing about 30 buttons. China has over a billion people living in it, and it has nukes. No country could be dumb enough to challenge them alone. And they haven't threatened anybody either. So, think before you say something like that. 4 times the population of the US. Far bigger arsenal. No, sorry, that's just insane to go after a country of that magnitude. And global warming is something most of us don't believe in, at least republicans. I'm all for less polution, though.

Two inches isn't enough to sink a city. And if it goes at 2-3 mm a year, there isn't going to be a disaster. It's not like one day, 20 years from now, NYC will all of a sudden have 2 inches of water running through its streets. You guys aren't thinking very much. You contradict yourselves quite a bit. Keep in mind that you say it happens slowly, but the flooding will happen quickly. If it even does. Yeah, okay, whatever.

TheKOB

08-10-2004, 05:45 PM

seems like some of you guys have watched that "day after tommorrow" movie too many times. We're not on the verge of some sort of ecological apocolypse like the uninformed hippies working at the recycling center would have you believe.

roughrider

08-10-2004, 08:01 PM

yeah going after china would be like world war 3, except this time we'd lose. the only way communism will fall in china is by their own doing

roughrider

08-10-2004, 08:02 PM

day after tommorrow is crap. My logic is based on science, and not is not from tree hugging groups. THe EPA acknowledges all of the stuff i am saying.

nVlax

08-11-2004, 06:53 AM

we'll see who's been reading recently. how about this one, the future lies in africa, remember that scarecrow.

HdGLaxWarrior

08-11-2004, 12:03 PM

It's the earth, it's out of our control. You cant stop anything the earth does, it's natural. Chill-out treehuggers.

roughrider

08-11-2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by HdGLaxWarrior
It's the earth, it's out of our control. You cant stop anything the earth does, it's natural. Chill-out treehuggers.

woooo, nothing about what is happening now is natural! This is all because of our "modernized" world and the overpopulation which will eventually be our demise. We can however stop this, if, and only if a major shift in thinking, and acceptance and if we globally change how we live our lives. We need to quickly decrease our use of coal and oil for engergy. We need to come up with that hydrogen car and quickly. We need to stop our capatlist ways which has our importing and shipping our products all over the world. The world we need to create should be taking all our concentration not useless wars or debates over abortion.

Thrillhouse

08-11-2004, 12:21 PM

HdGLaxWarrior

08-11-2004, 12:21 PM

Modernization is a natural occurence, we were made to succed. Not fail. I dont see what the big deal of 2 degrees is. It's not a big deal. If it was 10, then we'd be talking, but it's not going to effect our lifes. My wise old science teacher said the world will end on it's own. Nothing but the heavens is forever.

TheKOB

08-11-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by roughrider
woooo, nothing about what is happening now is natural! This is all because of our "modernized" world and the overpopulation which will eventually be our demise. We can however stop this, if, and only if a major shift in thinking, and acceptance and if we globally change how we live our lives. We need to quickly decrease our use of coal and oil for engergy. We need to come up with that hydrogen car and quickly. We need to stop our capatlist ways which has our importing and shipping our products all over the world. The world we need to create should be taking all our concentration not useless wars or debates over abortion.

I doubt that our capitalist ways are at the root of the problem...you might've heard of white guilt...this seems to be human guilt, or capitalist guilt, or even american guilt. We're the best, and we feel bad. Also, I'm pretty sure China pumps out a crapload more pollutants (that soft coal they got over there being the main probleml)than us (gasp...probably even more than they say they do...China lie to make themselves look good? naww) and they are most definitely not capitalist. If you want to decrease pollutants, go over and tell California to build some more nuclear plants...that'll lighten the load.

Also, are you advocating population control measures be put into place? Communists are trying that too...only allowing one baby per household. The end result? Infant (ie after being born) homicide.

Also, further, in stopping our capitalist ways...that'll be a one-way ticket for our economy to the toilet...and don't think other countries that are on our butts about the environment won't jump in and do the exact same thing we're doing.

useless wars and debates about abortion? I'll let someone else type that...don't want to get nasty.

Alright...mother nature/planeteer group hug!

spenny

08-11-2004, 02:15 PM

also in china, since many more female babies were "culled" they aer facing an extreme shortage of women. their next generation may not be as populous as the last.

TheKOB

08-11-2004, 02:29 PM

That's also because the parents depend later in life on their offspring to provide for them (The PROC has a crappy retirement plan, as it turns out...their 401(k) is in the toilet), so a male would be much more able to provide than a female, who just goes out and marrys some guy...women's lib hasn't quite hit China yet.

TheKOB

08-11-2004, 03:30 PM

bring on that ice age....we've got gore-tex.

Also, the changes that are taking place are so gradual, humanity will adapt....or just colonize Mars...but probably both.

Dan

08-11-2004, 05:48 PM

Sweet. Year round ski season. I'd have to stop playing d and go play some box.

Many of my beliefs about politics and the world are tied in with my religion. Now, we don't endorse or favor any candidates. Rebublican, Democrat, whatever. But capitalism is the best there is, except for a form of communism, which isn't really communism, and can't exist with today's people. Or pretty much any people, for that matter. I plan on having five kids. There's plenty of open space in the world. Just look at Vermont. One hundred times as many trees as people. Plus tons of open space. I love trees as much as the next guy, and rain and green grass, but we're overreacting.

The reason I want an H2 powered car is because it'd be way the freak cheaper, and way more efficient. We don't have the power to change the temperature of the earth. So quit complaining. I would like less polution, however. I'm all for that. Ten years from now, H2 powered cars will be common.

spenny

08-13-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
ok, no he was NEVER proven to have ties with Al-Qaeda, and i'd like to know when these WMD's were found, bc i never heard that any were found.

Iraq & WMDs
Iraq's weapons inspector David Kay, head of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), said in Senate testimony: “I think the world is far safer with the disappearance and the removal of Saddam Hussein. I have said – I actually think this may be one of those cases where it was even more dangerous than we thought. I think when we have the complete record you’re going to discover that after 1998, it became a regime that was totally corrupt. Individuals were out for their own protection. And in a world where we know others are seeking WMD, the likelihood at some point in the future of a seller and a buyer meeting up would have made that a far more dangerous country than even we anticipated with what may turn out not to be a fully accurate estimate.” (emphasis added)
The report by Dr. Kay included the following:
“We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN.”

And Dr. Kay concluded:
“Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Even those senior officials we have interviewed who claim no direct knowledge of any on-going prohibited activities readily acknowledge that Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to either restart CW [chemical weapons] production or make available chemical weapons.”
Beyond this, Saddam Hussein’s regime was one of the most sadistic and aggressive regimes in modern history. During his reign, Saddam Hussein routinely executed political opponents and political prisoners. Children and young people were tortured, forcing their parents and relatives to confess to alleged political offenses. Schoolchildren were summarily shot in public – and families of executed children were made to pay for the bullets and coffins used. Human Rights Watch concluded that the Iraqi regime committed the crime of genocide against Iraqi Kurds – and estimates are that more than 300,000 Iraqis were executed during Saddam Hussein’s reign. Former Ambassador Peter Galbraith has written that “along with Cambodia’s Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein’s regime was one of the two most cruel and inhumane regimes in the second half of the twentieth century.”
We know, too, that Saddam Hussein started a war of aggression against Iran and that Iraqi forces used both mustard gas and nerve gas. Casualties on both sides totaled more than one million. A decade later Saddam invaded Kuwait, pronouncing it Iraq’s “19th province.” Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a massively destabilizing force in the Middle East.
The United States and its coalition allies also eliminated a regime that was designated by both Democratic and Republican administrations as one of only a handful of state sponsors of international terrorism. Under Saddam Hussein, Iraq paid $25,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. (Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who handed out to families the money from Saddam, said, “You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue.”) In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service directed and pursued an assassination attempt, through the use of a powerful car bomb, on former President George H.W. Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. And Iraq sheltered terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization; the Kurdistan Workers’ Party; several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations; the Abu Nidal Organization; Ansar al-Islam; and al Qaeda.

spenny

08-13-2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by roughrider
Ok LaxMiddie32, you and I seem to be on the same page, but you still remain uninformed...there was never any connection between al quaeda and Iraq, that was all a part of the intelligence blunder

Iraqi-al Qaeda ties
The 9/11 Commission Report indicates that a senior Iraqi intelligence officer met with Osama bin Laden in Sudan in late 1994 or early 1995 and that contacts continued after bin Laden relocated in Afghanistan. Iraq harbored senior members of a terrorist network led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, an al Qaeda associate. CIA Director George Tenet told the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (in an October 7, 2002 letter), “We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade.” Senator Hillary Clinton said on October 10, 2002: “He [Saddam] has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members...” And in 1998, the Clinton Administration tied Iraq to al Qaeda, arguing that Saddam Hussein had provided technical assistance in the construction of a Sudanese chemical production plant that al Qaeda had undertaken. In retaliation for al Qaeda’s August 1998 truck bombings of US embassies in Africa, President Clinton ordered the destruction of that chemical plant.
Lee Hamilton, the vice-chairman of the Commission, said the following in response to media reports declaring that the 9/11 Commission had concluded there were no links between Iraq and al Qaeda: “I must say I have trouble understanding the flack over this. The Vice President is saying, I think, that there were connections between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein’s government. We don’t disagree with that. What we have said is what the governor [Kean] just said, we don’t have any evidence of a cooperative, or a corroborative relationship between Saddam Hussein’s government and these al Qaeda operatives with regard to the attacks on the United States. So it seems to me the sharp differences that the press has drawn, the media has drawn, are not that apparent to me.”

roughrider

08-13-2004, 01:42 PM

there was correlation between the 9/11 hijackers and iraq though

LizardsLaxFan

08-13-2004, 02:28 PM

THE CHINESE WILL BE THE DEATH OF US ALL. SOON THEY'RE GONNA INVADE SIBERIA AND USE IT'S RESOURCES TO KILL US ALL. I TELL YOU THEY ARE NASTY LITTLE FU**ERS. WE'VE GOTTA TAKE THEM OUT BEFORE THOSE COMMY MONSTERS TAKE US OUT. Because of all the killing of the chicks the next couple of generations maybe gays since there'll be no hot chicks around that will end there high #'s.

Dan

08-14-2004, 11:19 AM

Wow. That has to be the worst post on this whole forum. Try thinking. The Chinese will be the death of us if we go out and attack them, especially without reason. We could bomb them off the map, most likely, but that would mean millions, if not a billion lives lost. Please, think.

roughrider

08-14-2004, 04:11 PM

yes the world does go through rapid cooling and warming stages, but when scientists say rapid, they mean in comparison to the earth. ie hundreds of thousands of years, not a few decades

TheKOB

08-14-2004, 04:15 PM

overall, the earth is actually in a cooling stage. It's kind of like the stock market...if you check your stock prices daily (or, in terms of the earth, the temperature every 100 years) you'll get paniced.

roughrider

08-14-2004, 04:23 PM

I am panicked because we are on the cusp of the next great exstinction. the one we are beginning will be the 6th in the worlds history according to scientists. The last one was the dinosaurs. But why are the animals dying? partially because of global warming, we are changing their habitat and global warming is killing the things they once fed on. We are the parasites of the world unfortunatly, we consume and waste and never give back. Now it is time to give back

BTlaxripper

08-15-2004, 11:27 AM

I really could care less about the environment.
We will eventually use everything up, hopefully by then we will be living on Mars, or I will be dead.
HOORAY!

roughrider

08-16-2004, 09:18 PM

wow BTlaxripper that is the most arrogant, stupid thing i have ever heard anyone say. We can peacfully coexist with the world forever. yeah who cares about the environment huh? Just think about that when you get asthma from the pollution and you cant go play lax because the air is too dirty to run around in. What will it be like for your kids to never know what a tree looked like, or how could you deny them to see the wildlife that they rightfully should see.

TheKOB

08-17-2004, 09:45 AM

scare tactics like this are exactly what's wrong with the environmental movement...they've been screaming "Wolf" for so long, no one believes them anymore.

spenny

08-17-2004, 10:54 AM

not to mention that they'd happily have us living in the 15th century all over again it if saved some fuzzy animal

LizardsLaxFan

08-17-2004, 11:07 AM

Yeah if its such a BIG problem then go out and fix it like a real Laxer.

LizardsLaxFan

08-17-2004, 11:09 AM

And whining ain't going to fix nothing. There's no way you can force everyone to give up all that stuff, so build a machine that can fix the problem.

Dan

08-17-2004, 01:40 PM

You continually make no sense.

FredtheCat

08-19-2004, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by LizardsLaxFan
Yeah if its such a BIG problem then go out and fix it like a real Laxer.

What the hell are you talking about? If I can't go outside and magically fix everything that's wrong with the environment I'm not a "real laxer"? :wtf

GeorgiaMiddie2

08-20-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by TheKOB
scare tactics like this are exactly what's wrong with the environmental movement...they've been screaming "Wolf" for so long, no one believes them anymore.

and the way bush is blowing the war in iraq and terrorism way out of proportion isnt a scare tactic? both sides use em...

TheKOB

08-20-2004, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
and the way bush is blowing the war in iraq and terrorism way out of proportion isnt a scare tactic? both sides use em...

I'd say someone flying a plane into a building should be givin a lot more notice and attention than iffy science and a few trees (that grow back, by the way....I looked at the shelves of my general store and didn't see any "World Trade Center" seeds that I could plant up at NYC). The two are hardly comparable. And how was this discussion about the political parties anyways? Last I checked we were talking about environmentalists, not liberals or democrats...

Thrillhouse

08-20-2004, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
and the way bush is blowing the war in iraq and terrorism way out of proportion isnt a scare tactic? both sides use em...

You have got to be kidding Are you saying that terrorism isn't as big of a problem that the President is making it out to be?

spenny

08-20-2004, 11:22 AM

being a leftist is easy... anything done before a terrorist attack is "too much" "violating civil rights" "playing politics with war"

of course after the attack its all "you didnt do enough to stop the attack"

the Ds act is weak.

roughrider

08-22-2004, 12:16 AM

the republicans have it easy "yellow terror alert!" "I support family values" "recovering economy" you hide behind these values and flase ideas while the real world is screwing us all over!

roughrider

08-22-2004, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by TheKOB
I'd say someone flying a plane into a building should be givin a lot more notice and attention than iffy science and a few trees (that grow back, by the way....I looked at the shelves of my general store and didn't see any "World Trade Center" seeds that I could plant up at NYC). The two are hardly comparable. And how was this discussion about the political parties anyways? Last I checked we were talking about environmentalists, not liberals or democrats...

once you clear cut a forest, its not so easy to just "grow back trees". due to heavy deforestation in Brazil what was once a rainforest is now a dessert. and iffy science...well if you call the EPA iffy then totally disregard this:
"Scientists know for certain that human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide (CO2 ), in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times have been well documented. There is no doubt this atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities.

It's well accepted by scientists that greenhouse gases trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere and tend to warm the planet. By increasing the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, human activities are strengthening Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The key greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries.

A warming trend of about 1°F has been recorded since the late 19th century. Warming has occurred in both the northern and southern hemispheres, and over the oceans. Confirmation of 20th-century global warming is further substantiated by melting glaciers, decreased snow cover in the northern hemisphere and even warming below ground."

that was taken for the EPA's website (the EPA is the environmental protection agency for you republicans who seem to be a little thick). http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html

roughrider

08-22-2004, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by Thrillhouse
You have got to be kidding Are you saying that terrorism isn't as big of a problem that the President is making it out to be?

we are treating terrorism as we treated communism even just 20 years earlier. it has become this big bad monster that Bush and other politicians can hide behind. it has become a scape goat for any problems. yes terrorism is a problem, but it is not the biggest thing threatening the united states right now.

and if terrorism is a problem, going to war is not the solution. in fact, there is no real solution. no amount of intelligence work or preemptive attacks could ever stop all attempts. it is like the drug war, no matter how hard we try we wont eliminate all attacks. but ii digress. The greatest hope we have to stop attacks would be to change the worlds climate towards us. The world largely views our invasion of Iraq as new emperialism. whether this is true or not, that is largely the worlds view towards us. We are the bully, taking what we want and kn