Faceoff Wing Line Violation

[TBALAX]

NFHS Rule Book: Two local referee organizations are teaching two different interpitations of what should occur during a faceoff wing man line violation: I say interpitation because it is not clearly called out in either the NFHS rule book or the October 2006 Officials Training Manual. NFHS Page 43 4.3 Situation Q mentions a wing violation but does not give the proceedure to follow as it is discussing a violation by the faceoff men.

SITUATION: Team A wing has his foot on or over the wing line as the whistle sounds to start a faceoff at the center x.

Association 1. refers to Page 31. Rule 4-3 Facing Off; Art. 1. Exceptions: #2. "If a player or team commits a foul before or during any faceoff, the ball will be awarded to the offended team in its offensive side of the field at the center face off"

So in this case after the Referee conducting the faceoff sounds his whistle to start play the official positioned on or near the wing lines immediatley stops play signaling illegal procedure on team A for standing on or over the wing line and awards the ball to team B on their offensive half of the field near the X.

Association 2: same situations calls out NFHS page 71 Section 10: Play-On Technique, ART1. ..."If a player commits a loose-ball or line violation technical foul or crease violation and an offended player may be disadvantaged by the immediate suspension of play, the official shall visually and verbally signal play-on, and withhold the whistle until such time as the situation of advantage gained or lost has been completed."

So in this case after the Referee conducting the faceoff sounds his whistle to start play the official positioned on or near the wing lines calls and signals a PLay On and waits to see what happens.


Which is the correct procedure and can you give a specific reference and yes LAXREF please add this to your list of items to add more clarity too?

Thanks
TBALAX

1. Immediate stoppage of play IP award to Team B

OR

2. Signal Play ON and wait to see what happens

[blindbill]

Also along these lines, where exactly can the wingmen line up? Do they need to be behind the wingline proper (10 yds. either side of the midline), or behind the line extended to the box?

BTW, I agree with association #1, since if I catch it, it should be before anyone could have had an advantage or be disadvantaged.

[wolfenburg]

ILF rules: behind the real wingline (not the extanded).

I think, there is no advantage if the face has not started, so give team B the ball. It is another task, if an attacker of A steps over the restraining line, while Team B is picking up the ball ....

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

After reading both interpretations, IMM both are correct and the one that I would use depends on what is transpiring. ~99.5% of the time, my colleagues and I would kill play immediately and award the ball to the offended team at the midfield X after observing a wing-line violation during a loose ball. However, there may be the occasional situation that a play-on makes sense if at the moment the whistle was sounded for the faceoff, the offended team appears to have an opportunity to pick-up the loose ball during the face-off and can make a fast break for the goal by the time I determined that a wing line violation occurred (this is a very quick situation). In this case I would call a play-on and hold the whistle until the fast break is over, or if the offended team did not actually pick the ball up.

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

Also along these lines, where exactly can the wingmen line up? Do they need to be behind the wingline proper (10 yds. either side of the midline), or behind the line extended to the box?

BTW, I agree with association #1, since if I catch it, it should be before anyone could have had an advantage or be disadvantaged.

Unless there is a mandown situation where a wingman is offsides if standing on the other side of the midfield line, wingmen can lineup anywhere behind (not on) the extended wingline on either side of the midfield line.

[LaxRef]

A.R. 21. On a faceoff, the Team A faceoff player moves before the official blows the whistle. Wing player A2 or B2 is across the restraining line as the whistle blows. RULING: Because Team A had a faceoff violation, the faceoff has not taken place. Award the ball to Team B. Ignore the wing-area violation.

This says that there is no violation until the whistle blows. This is the same as NFHS 4.3 Situation Q.

Now, logically, if the violation doesn't exist until the whistle, then once the whistle blows we have a play-on since it's a loose-ball technical foul.

Also, the wing area is the area behind the wing line, not the wing-line extended. "Behind" in this case clearly means "behind with respect to getting to the middle of the field," since that's where the ball is. And it should be clear that if they wanted to allow people to go all the way down to the DCL, they'd have the line go that far as well.

[BlueJaysLaxFan]

I stand corrected.

[LaxRef]

I stand corrected.


Just to be clear, I wasn't contradicting your statement about having to stay onside when filling the wing area on a man-down faceoff. That's certainly true.

[Beacher]

I would go with BlueJaysLaxFan on this one. The reason I'd be inclined to call it right away in 99% of the cases is that if you don't, then you invite a possible loose ball simultaneous fouls situation. Unless there is a fast break developing then you don't hurt the non-offending team. In ILF that would mean an immediate whistle and another faceoff. In NCAA and NFHS I think that would be AP(?)

[LaxRef]

I would go with BlueJaysLaxFan on this one. The reason I'd be inclined to call it right away in 99% of the cases is that if you don't, then you invite a possible loose ball simultaneous fouls situation. Unless there is a fast break developing then you don't hurt the non-offending team. In ILF that would mean an immediate whistle and another faceoff. In NCAA and NFHS I think that would be AP(?)

Nope, NCAA and NFHS, if you have simultaneuous loose-ball technical fouls (in the Rule 7-6 sense), the team originally offended is awarded possession. Of course, if they are simultaneous in the sense that you can't tell which one occured first, then you go AP (or if a team was in possession when they happened then that team keeps possession).

And I disagree with your ruling for NCAA and NFHS (I have no idea on ILF or box rules and no comment I ever make should be taken to pertain to ILF or box rules). The violation doesn't occur until the whistle blows to start play, so it should be a play on. How can you determine whether a fast break is developing unless you call a play-on and see what happens? If you kill the play immediately, you'll sometimes take away an advantage.

[Beacher]

Sorry, I was only speculating on NCAA/NFHS rules. I only have a third hand idea of what you guys do down there : )
Somewhere in either the CLA or ILF manual it instructs us to whistle the play down right away (I can't find it right now), but since you don't have to worry about simultaneous fouls the way we do I can see how my ILF logic doesn't apply.

[TBALAX]

OK not to cast some grey on what LAXREF stated as black and white insert these variables.

NFHS: Pg 59, R 6-5 Illegal procedure:
h. Any player not in his restraining area at the time of the whistle is blown to start play at the time of a faceoff.
n. Violation of the rules on positioning for a faceoff.

October 2006, Officials Training Manual: page 30, Mechanic 5 - is silent on what to do if there is an infraction during a faceoff procedure.

Closest you get is under the wing official: bullet 7. "Watches for wing middies leavig to soon; concentrate on your side of the field." But no direction on what to do if they do leave early.

However, it was discussed at the convention for the faceoff official not to blow the whistle if there is an infraction during a faceoff between the two faceoff players. Rather after NCAA: Down or NFHS: Down , Set to have both players stand back up and award the ball if an infraction is observed for any of the several IP's.

Does this logic then not hold true for the wing official / positions. Does the official at the wing position also not have an option to call IP on the faceoff players / wing man if he observes an infraction after Down or Down Set and prior to the whistle? Following that logic string the wing official who had heard the faceoff official state Down or Down set should stop play for IP because the winger was on or over the wing line even if the faceoff official blew the whistle before he could react.

So my point for all of this is that it appears to be another area a little more detail needs to be added to the documents we use to make decisions from.

So if PLAY ON is the right mechanic than PLAY ON and lets make sure everyone knows because I can name over 20 officials who did not.

Is PLAY ON still the correct call?

[LaxRef]

OK not to cast some grey on what LAXREF stated as black and white insert these variables.

NFHS: Pg 59, R 6-5 Illegal procedure:
h. Any player not in his restraining area at the time of the whistle is blown to start play at the time of a faceoff.
n. Violation of the rules on positioning for a faceoff.

Absolutely. I think h refers to the wing and defensive areas and n refers to violations of Rule 4-3, but it's not entirely clear and doesn't really matter (but the only reason to have both h and n is if n refers only to 4-3; otherwise, n would cover h as well).

These are technical fouls without possession. However, the faceoff guy violating the positioning rules or moving early is by definition a dead-ball technical foul with no one in possession; the A.R. I cited shows that the wing-area violation is not a violation at all until after the whsitle blows.

October 2006, Officials Training Manual: page 30, Mechanic 5 - is silent on what to do if there is an infraction during a faceoff procedure.

Closest you get is under the wing official: bullet 7. "Watches for wing middies leavig to soon; concentrate on your side of the field." But no direction on what to do if they do leave early.

However, it was discussed at the convention for the faceoff official not to blow the whistle if there is an infraction during a faceoff between the two faceoff players. Rather after NCAA: Down or NFHS: Down , Set to have both players stand back up and award the ball if an infraction is observed for any of the several IP's.

That's because the faceoff infraction at the square (or X for NFHS) is a dead-ball technical foul.

Does this logic then not hold true for the wing official / positions. Does the official at the wing position also not have an option to call IP on the faceoff players / wing man if he observes an infraction after Down or Down Set and prior to the whistle? Following that logic string the wing official who had heard the faceoff official state Down or Down set should stop play for IP because the winger was on or over the wing line even if the faceoff official blew the whistle before he could react.

A.R. 21 clearly implies that the violation does not occur until after the whistle blows.

So my point for all of this is that it appears to be another area a little more detail needs to be added to the documents we use to make decisions from.

So if PLAY ON is the right mechanic than PLAY ON and lets make sure everyone knows because I can name over 20 officials who did not.

Is PLAY ON still the correct call?

I think the rules imply that play-on is the correct procedure, but you are correct that it takes some work to put it all together and figure that out. I'll see about adding an A.R. on this for 2008, something like:

A.R. XX. On a faceoff, (1) a wing player steps on or over the wing line before the whistle (2) a defense or attack player behind the restraining line steps on or over the line before legally released. RULING: In either case, a play-on should be used.

[TBALAX]

Sounds like a plan.

Thanks

[TBALAX]

In my haste to say thanks I forgot to mention this also needs to be addressed in the Officials Trainig Manual page 30 under Mechanic 5 "Face-Off at Center" and referred to page 80, Mechanic 16, "Play On" where something needs to be added on how this should be administered during a faceoff.

Thanks Again

[LaxRef]

In my haste to say thanks I forgot to mention this also needs to be addressed in the Officials Trainig Manual page 30 under Mechanic 5 "Face-Off at Center" and referred to page 80, Mechanic 16, "Play On" where something needs to be added on how this should be administered during a faceoff.

The training manual is not exhaustive; we don't even teach "play on" to level 1 officials. But I'll make a note to add something for Level 2 .