View Full Version : affirmative action
timmy
08-29-2004, 09:25 PM
What is everyone's opinion on this? I think it is a terrible idea. People should get into college based on knowledge and charecter, not race.
It's a crying shame and I'd be offended to have it available to me. It causes hate and discontent directed towards those that use that crutch.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:31 PM
what I like about y'all is how sure you guys are about something
'its a crying shame'
'it causes hate and discontent'
mmhmm..
how do you propose we diversify campuses across the country? a car wash?
look I dont mean to be rude and I know its easy to tear my next statement apart but... you guys aren't 'minorities' and dont quite understand all the ways the program helps.
AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS TEH BEST PROGRAM IN TEH HISTORY OF THE US... I'M GLAD PPL CREATED IT TO SAVE THE WORLD... ITS A CRYING MIRACLE!
I have a weak argument right now... but the debate is only starting to form so.. here we go..
timmy
08-29-2004, 10:33 PM
I'm a minority. I'm Jewish. While I don't practice the religion at all or know anything about it, I'm still Jewish.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by timmy
I'm a minority. I'm Jewish. While I don't practice the religion at all or know anything about it, I'm still Jewish.
ummm
...
anybody else?
I think it's racism in a different form. It isn't needed today, I think. It strips away the rights of Asians and Caucasians. (Where is Caucasia?) Racism isn't just hatred, it's seperation as well. When we give another race special treatment, it's a form of racism, both to the beneficiary and the people that get nothing. It was necessary years ago, when racism was rampant, and hate crimes and discrimination were common. It happens much less. My company will hire the most qualified individual, no matter what they look like. To me, skin is a color, much like hair. But heritage is the difference. German heritage is far different from American heritage, and Kenyan heritage is different than Colombian heritage. That's it.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:46 PM
That may be all true Raine for you but theres ppl out there that say 'we'll hire the best man for the job no matter what color he is' and then they see a black man and think 'lazy' or and indian guy and think 'smelly wierd messy.. blah blah' anyways ppl mean well but something in the back of their mind just stereotypes right away.. .something that can't be fixed anytime soon. Hell.. i do it too a little even though I try to be a saint about this kind of stuff.
Yea that's right, don't hire the most qualified person for the job......hire the less qualified minority. Makes perfect sense.
________________________________________________
Every attempt to end segregation (nice word....diversify) has failed. Why? Because you cannot force people of different backgrounds to live together, play together, work together. When a minority gets hired because of race or sex over another more qualified person.......you don't thing people notice that. Ofcourse they do and they will look at you and treat you different.
IMO.......affirmative action is holding back the progress of minorities. They are just to ignorant to see it.
Of course it is. I'm not perfect either, but every time a thought pops up, I just shove it away and do my best to not judge. But while every once in awhile you get a racist boss or dean, that doesn't mean everybody is.
PS: That's in response to Anjan's, not Mark's post. He beat me to it.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Mark
Yea that's right, don't hire the most qualified person for the job......hire the less qualified minority. Makes perfect sense.
________________________________________________
Every attempt to end segregation (nice word....diversify) has failed. Why? Because you cannot force people of different backgrounds to live together, play together, work together. When a minority gets hired because of race or sex over another more qualified person.......you don't thing people notice that. Ofcourse they do and they will look at you and treat you different.
IMO.......affirmative action is holding back the progress of minorities. They are just to ignorant to see it.
dont take it to the extremes ... were not talking about hiring an idiot instead of the genious..
two guys have the exact same resume and same qualifications... one of them is white and the other one is black... which one will you hire?
timmy
08-29-2004, 10:57 PM
NRVLC, in some lines of work, smelly Indian people are bad for the company. I work for a deli, there are 3 of them in my town, we own all 3. One of the deli's is mainly Indian, and they're struggling to stay afloat. People are turned off by there smell. When you meet someone that smells you think bad hygene. Would you want someone with bad hygene making your sandwich?
anjang86
08-29-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by timmy
NRVLC, in some lines of work, smelly Indian people are bad for the company. I work for a deli, there are 3 of them in my town, we own all 3. One of the deli's is mainly Indian, and they're struggling to stay afloat. People are turned off by there smell. When you meet someone that smells you think bad hygene. Would you want someone with bad hygene making your sandwich?
hahaha this is so true though... i'm not mocking you dude.. that was seriously hilarious :laugh :laugh
but seriously now any smelly ppl are bad for the company not just indian smelly
when i said taht 'smelly' stuff I meant a normal professional indian dude that doesnt smell but you assume he will because the indians at the corner deli do.
I was friends with an Indian, I never noticed a smell. I moved, so I don't really talk to him anymore. Pavan Patel. That's a super common name, that's for sure. For an Indian, at least. Anyway, I'd hire the person I felt like the company would get along best with. Or hire each one as temps for a while, maybe two weeks, and see which one fit best. But the thing is, that situation rarely arises. Most people have different qualifications. But if they are equal, then it gets into fit, and that sort of thing.
two guys have the exact same resume and same qualifications... one of them is white and the other one is black... which one will you hire?
Not possiable ! There is always a deciding factor on a resume. But....... if what you said was true, I'd hire the white. Now that assuming I'm the decision maker. If a black manager/owner was making the decision....I'm sure he'd choose black.
One thing you cannot deny. Black people work and live better with other blacks and white people work and live better with other whites. The answer is not to force the two together. There has to be a better way.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 11:13 PM
there is no 'better way' and it doesnt seem like ppl are interesting in finding it, this is the only way right now to get ppl to get along
roughrider
08-30-2004, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by Mark
two guys have the exact same resume and same qualifications... one of them is white and the other one is black... which one will you hire?
Not possiable ! There is always a deciding factor on a resume. But....... if what you said was true, I'd hire the white. Now that assuming I'm the decision maker. If a black manager/owner was making the decision....I'm sure he'd choose black.
One thing you cannot deny. Black people work and live better with other blacks and white people work and live better with other whites. The answer is not to force the two together. There has to be a better way.
jeez thats dangerously close to another thing someone said once...how does it goes? "segragation now and segragation forever" george mcgovern or something of alabama
i am all for affirmitive action because i do not see any other way of doing it. We will always be a devided america if we do nothing to stop it.
GeorgiaMiddie2
08-30-2004, 08:33 AM
how are we a divided america when it comes to the workplace or colleges (well, except for these all black colleges or single gender schools)? i really would like to hear this argument. the only place i really see division in america anymore is in the projects of america, or way off in the backcountry, where these people isolate themselves from the rest of the world anyhow.
GeorgiaMiddie2
08-30-2004, 08:36 AM
and, as for the person who asked where Caucasia is, it's what northern, central Europe used to be called. It's the region around the Caucasus Mtns (not totally sure about the spelling of that one). anyhow, it's where the first whites are believed to have originated from.
Longest
08-30-2004, 09:39 AM
Affirmative action further divides us. We can't all just be Americans, we have to be some label. You have to be Asian or white or Jamaican or Filipino. Job applications, school applications, credit checks, all that crap uses your race. If people wanted to really make things equal, just eliminate it as a labeling device. Until everyone views society as "We're in this together" instead of "I'm in this with my fellow Rastas", what hope do we really have.
Dan
Thrillhouse
08-30-2004, 09:45 AM
First, I don't want to say that racism isn’t a problem, because it is. That being said, I don’t like affirmative action because of what it implies. Is the only way a minority get ahead in this country is by the government forcing others to hire them? I have to believe that isn’t true. For every minority that gets into Michigan State Law School, there are probably over a hundred on welfare or in prison. It seems as if the idea is to start at the top and hope the success of a few will trickle down to everyone, and since it’s been around for over 25 years, it’s safe to say it hasn’t worked.
Equality can’t be mandated. If someone wants me to accept them as their equal, they have to prove to me that they are. If someone forces me to accept them, I can’t help but assume that they are not.
timmy
08-30-2004, 01:39 PM
nrvlc, generally smelly people are not going to be good for a food establishment.
Affirmative action is basiclly just saying, yes you're a minority, and because of that you need our help.
And the white/black thing, I'd hire whoever I feel more comfortable with. We have a different hiring policy, you have one interview with each boss (3 of them), then you have one trial day, if people feel you did your job well and get along with others than you'd be hired.
TheKOB
08-30-2004, 02:13 PM
my view of affirmitive action is that it is more racist than the original racism that it's supposed to be counteracting.
roughrider
08-30-2004, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by GeorgiaMiddie2
how are we a divided america when it comes to the workplace or colleges (well, except for these all black colleges or single gender schools)? i really would like to hear this argument. the only place i really see division in america anymore is in the projects of america, or way off in the backcountry, where these people isolate themselves from the rest of the world anyhow.
I know in Seattle there is a distinctive race barrier. South Seattle is Black. West Seattle is black except for a small strip of white. The rest of Seattle is white and asian. At my high school which is in a white neighborhood I think we have about 20 black guys out of 1700 kids. As opposed to Ranier Beach High School in S. Seattle which has about 20 white kids and 1200 black kids.