View Full Version : Lets go back to Clinton's impeachment
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:42 PM
Should he have been completely impeached?
if you answered yes, then why? and would you still think the same way if Bush lied about something similar?
theres really nothing I'm trying to get at here, its just that I never get the opinions of Clinton out of the ppl on this board and I was just curious
plus I wanted to make a poll cause theyre cool and I'm jealous of ppl making ridiculous polls like
who are you...
1. a horse
2. a kitty
3. other
Look, I don't like Clinton. I would have been happy if he was impeached. But while what I think what he did was sick and wrong, and used to be illegal in ancient society, it wasn't illegal for him to do it in the USA. So, while I would have been glad to be rid of him, (except Gore wasn't much better) he wasn't truly in violation of the law, except lying under oath and the like. But he's a sick man.
anjang86
08-29-2004, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by raine
Look, I don't like Clinton. I would have been happy if he was impeached. But while what I think what he did was sick and wrong, and used to be illegal in ancient society, it wasn't illegal for him to do it in the USA. So, while I would have been glad to be rid of him, (except Gore wasn't much better) he wasn't truly in violation of the law, except lying under oath and the like. But he's a sick man.
I knew you didn't like him because of that whole adultry thing, but if he wasn't involved in that would you still think he was a good president?
anyways kudos to you in voting no... and giving a good reason
I think Clinton did some things that were pretty good in office, but obviously I disagreed with a lot. Because I'm a republican, that's why. I was a lot younger then, and I voted Dole in school polls because my parents did. But I know a lot about Bush and Kerry, and not so much about Clinton. I don't blame the economy on him, nor Bush, because it can't be faulted, but I put it on him if people say it's Bush's fault. Let's put it this way; I won't be reading his autobiography. My dad thought "My Life" sounded too much like Hitler's "My Struggle." That amused me.
roughrider
08-30-2004, 02:43 AM
Clintons impeachment was totally wrong. I do admire the republicans though. They spent 98 million trying to find things that would get Clinton out. However all they found was that he got his willy wonka tongue-bathed
stegmakk
08-30-2004, 09:06 AM
To be honest in my short lifetime I thought Bill did a good job as president...the impeachment was a sticky situation...
On one hand grilling the man for getting a BJ was ludicrous and the whole thing should not have happened in the first place...On the other hand he did lie while under oath, and where there is one lie, you can never be sure how many more lies there were...
So my opinion...The whole issue should have been taken care of within their family like everyone elses indiscretions, but since it got out, and he did lie under oath, I can accept the impeachment...
Give me Clinton over GWB or GWB Jr anyday...
TheKOB
08-30-2004, 09:36 AM
I'm not a fan of his because he lied under oath....and we hold him up as the President of the US.
I also don't understand how NOW still supported him after he cheated on his wife, but that's another issue, kinda.
timmy
08-30-2004, 01:49 PM
I don't care about the man's personal life unless he's doing something illegal. He was a decent president, better then Dole would've been. I think he should be impeached on the basis that he LIED under oath.
MrTibs
08-30-2004, 03:23 PM
let me quote from dave chapelle..."Clinton wasnt the first president to do what he did. You guys remember a guy called kennedy? He slept with marilyn monroe..him and his brother both slept with marilyn monroe. but history doesnt talk about that. wanna know why? Cuz those 2 pages in history are stuck together"....i thought that was fitting. But yeah. Who cares what he did. we were at peace, economy was. good times. Monica needs to visit bush.
timmy
08-30-2004, 04:19 PM
Two different circumstances. Who would've passed on Monroe?
BTlaxripper
08-30-2004, 05:34 PM
huh? clinton bombed an asprin factory?
Longest
08-30-2004, 06:07 PM
If you want to run around on yoru wife/gf/dog/significant other, I don't care. If you want to do it in the Oval Office of the White House, I NOW care. And if we ignore that issue, I hope no one is going to suggest it's okay to perjure one's self.
Dan
BTlaxripper
08-30-2004, 06:10 PM
I agree Dan, sure if my next door neighbor cheated on his wife I really wouldn't care, but when it is a man in such a seat of authority his or her actions reflect on the entire country and people's opinions of us.
I think he should've been totally impeached.
roughrider
08-30-2004, 06:12 PM
I think a slap on the wrist would have been fine.
Biffman49
08-30-2004, 06:53 PM
BT, the thing is that Clinton's actions didn't reflect on the rest of us. We were the laughing stock of the world when this story broke. Not because Clinton got a beej from Monica, but because this is extremely common in other parts of the world. In Europe and South American for instance, everyone knows who the President/Prime Minister/Whatever the head of state is called is messing around with on the side. They have mistresses and everyone knows it. It wasn't that big of a deal to the rest of the world and they couldn't believe that he was being investigated like he was.
However, I'm not proud of the fact that he lied under oath. Worse things have happened though and you can't deny that Clinton did a great job in office.
Longest
08-30-2004, 07:09 PM
Oh yes I can.
Dan
anjang86
08-30-2004, 10:35 PM
Do you think the world is laughing at us now or when Clinton was in office?
gimmie your unbaised answer
The world hates us right now, much of it. Many European countries do, at least. Look at the Greeks. I couldn't believe it. They said we plotted a conspiracy to get one of their sprinters out of the Olympics.
stegmakk
08-30-2004, 11:13 PM
We were laughed at as Biff said...cause its not a big deal...
We are hated now because of many actions of Jr.
Id rather be laughed at than hated and possibly plotted against
anjang86
08-30-2004, 11:30 PM
oh com'n steggs you should know that we can wipe out terrorism so well never get plotted against again...
Longest
08-30-2004, 11:44 PM
Why does it matter?
Dan
anjang86
08-30-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Longest
Why does it matter?
Dan
exactly... we shouldn't care about the rest of the world right?
Longest
08-31-2004, 12:53 AM
We shouldn't care what they *think* Anjan. I see where you're trying to take this and I'm not falling into your trap :-)
Dan
anjang86
08-31-2004, 07:36 AM
oh well I was just gonna say:
if we shouldn't care what they think then why do you try to police the world?
Longest
08-31-2004, 07:41 AM
Because what they do affects us.....
Dan
anjang86
08-31-2004, 07:48 AM
IMO how they think of us affects us too... what they do is affected also by how they think of us
TheKOB
08-31-2004, 09:58 AM
I personally could care less if the rest of the world is laughing at us or hates us. Also, I don't think most of the world even cares, it's just a few people being very vocal. Why should they care? what we did in Iraq isn't really their business. We asked the UN for help, they said no, so we did it ourself. Iraq (the old administration) didn't like it, but even Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (the most affluent Arab state) helped us out. Why should we care what some europeans think of us? The ones that were our allies still are. Everyone else can suck it.
You're gonna be despised if you're #1...that may sound conceited, but it's true. France doesn't much like England, but you don't see the English looking to change policy because the people across the Channel don't like 'em.
I'd rather do what's right then do what's popular.
stegmakk
08-31-2004, 11:21 AM
Who is to say WE are right?
as far as not caring if they hate us...ya think if we are hated more there will be more terrorist plans against us?
Remember when us and Russia were the big 2...and we had more love because Russia was seen as the big bad monster throwing its weight around?
Who is throwing their weight around now?
Longest
08-31-2004, 11:56 AM
Are you suggesting defending ourselves proactively and encouraging democracy are equivalent to aggressively forcing communism upon the world?
Dan
stegmakk
08-31-2004, 12:00 PM
Encouraging democracy and spreading communism...Yes I am comparing the two
Defending ourselves proactively against CREDIBLE threats...no this is a seperate issue
Longest
08-31-2004, 12:23 PM
So democracy and communism are exactly the same thing if two nations are trying to spread them?
I guess you and I view the current situation as whether it's a credible threat or not.
Dan
stegmakk
08-31-2004, 12:39 PM
take a step back and look at it not as democracy and communism...look at the framework...
We, the most powerful nation in the world, is deciding what government should be overthrown in place of one more in line with ours...
When russia wanted to spread communism...didnt it go in and try to overthrow governments...
I am just trying to point out 1) where do we draw the line, meaning, and 2) look at it from a different view of an unbiased observer
I love democracy and am grateful I live in a land with it...but is this type of government the best fit for every nation? and is it our JOB to overthrow other governments that do not conform with our ideals?
Thrillhouse
08-31-2004, 01:18 PM
The democracy’s that are starting in Iraq and Afghanistan are not going to be the same as the one we have. It’s really up to them to decide what is best for them, but I personally think it’s the right of everyone on this earth to have a say in who governs them. The problem with communism (at least in everywhere in the world it’s been tried) is it has to be forced onto people. If people in a country got together and decided communism were the best way to go then good for them, as long that is what they’ve chosen to do. It’s not like we can just make a copy of The Constitution and tell other countries to just use that. Islamic law is going to be a factor in their laws and when I they are done there will be things in there we as American’s don’t like. But don’t forget, when we made our constitution it was OK to own another person. We still haven’t perfected it yet and it would be unreasonable to think that they won’t make mistakes along the way.
I’m kind of rambling, but yes, I think it is our duty to spread democracy across the world. I think every person on this earth has the right to chose who governs them and it is our duty to defend that right.
Longest
08-31-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by stegmakk
take a step back and look at it not as democracy and communism...look at the framework...
We, the most powerful nation in the world, is deciding what government should be overthrown in place of one more in line with ours...
When russia wanted to spread communism...didnt it go in and try to overthrow governments...
I am just trying to point out 1) where do we draw the line, meaning, and 2) look at it from a different view of an unbiased observer
I love democracy and am grateful I live in a land with it...but is this type of government the best fit for every nation? and is it our JOB to overthrow other governments that do not conform with our ideals?
steg,
I must commend you. This is the most insightful dialogue I have had on this issue and I believe you have swayed me. You are correct, despite obvious ideological differences in communism and democracy, we are no better than the Soviet Union if we force it upon people, no matter our rationale. I still think the attack on Iraq was justified but I am much less convinced we should still be there, having deposed Saddam.
Dan
TheKOB
08-31-2004, 02:53 PM
No one is to say we're right, but we sure as heck shouldn't listen to the opinions of those who never liked us in the first place. I don't think that taking a dictator who kills his own people out of power was a bad thing...to me, that's morally right. To his people that was the right thing to do (which is why he'll be put to death by his own people). Who's saying we're wrong? Someone better post something more credible than France or the UN. Citizens in other countries who are ill informed? Democrats who's own canadate for president supported the war, when given the same evidence as Bush? That's all political BS at best and hypocrisy at worst.
As for comparing our government to communism, there's a distinct difference in the two. Russia spread it as an ideological war with the west. Notice how all of the former eastern block countries were 1) all close together and 2) provided a buffer zone for Mother Russia. The US did neither. No one is mourning the loss of the former government and leader of Iraq, except those governments who profited from their warmongering (France, and interestingly enough, Russia).
We didn't go into Iraq with the intention of setting up a democracy, we're not on a crusade. We went in to take a dictator who was dangerous out of power, because there was evidence that he had (at the time and after the war) WMD's and chemical weapons. Why exactly was it bad? How many people in Iraq are mad that they don't have Saddam as a ruler? The only people mad at us are countries that are bystanders and profited with trade with Iraq...and afterwards they just wanted to be nice and get in on the rebuilding contracts. That showed that the only thing they care about is dollar signs (or euros). Screw them.
anjang86
08-31-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by LaxMiddie32
John Kerry said that he completely agreed with the decision to go to war.
So why wouldnt people hate him if he were in office too?
so kerry likes the war?
why dont you vote for him then?
People hate us because our own news talks about us in a negative light. What impression are they getting?
BTlaxripper
08-31-2004, 07:02 PM
hm I never thought about that raine,
all parties criticize each other and talk about the bad parts.. so other countries watch our news and are like "holy crap i never knew that" or etc etc
anjang86
08-31-2004, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by raine
People hate us because our own news talks about us in a negative light. What impression are they getting?
so you think that ppl out there watch CNN and CBS and decide to hate america? BBC is more 'objective' than any of these sources. I dont think you can blame the media for making ppl not like us.. we are the ones watching CNN and CBS not the rest of the world
HdGLaxWarrior
08-31-2004, 08:21 PM
I think they were laughing hysterically, now, they are like, oh crap, better not laugh at us now.
I voted Yes, because he lied under oath. Messed around on the USA's time. And he let bin Laden slip away, and he knocked down the towers.
BTW, in Jadakiss' new song, "Why" why does he say: Why did Bush knock down the towers?
Bush didnt Clinton did...
anjang86
08-31-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by HdGLaxWarrior
I think they were laughing hysterically, now, they are like, oh crap, better not laugh at us now.
I voted Yes, because he lied under oath. Messed around on the USA's time. And he let bin Laden slip away, and he knocked down the towers.
BTW, in Jadakiss' new song, "Why" why does he say: Why did Bush knock down the towers?
Bush didnt Clinton did...
that was the worst bulls*it I've had to read today
dude no offense (and I know I'm gonna get blasted by everybody for saying this) but you are a little too young to be commenting this way.