Amino Acid vs. Creatine vs. NO2

[CtLaxin]

So I have an extremely fast metabolism and I have been talking to some people. Overall they said Amino Acid forumla would be the best for me. Can anyone explain what these do to you and your body and how they help in gaining strength and muscles. Also I heard NO2 would be bad for me since it raises your metabolism and sinbce I already have a high one it would burn the protein powder I am taking. Also my brother tried to turn me off creatine. So what do the amino acid formula do for you and does it work as good as Creatine or NO2?

[spyopticgoggles]

isnt creatine a steroid? well the amino acid formula would give you more protein which would give u more muscles (amino acids make up proteins which make up enzymes).

[matt25]

I am so freaking tired of people saying that creatine is a steroid!!!!! http://lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=14211&highlight=creatine+steroid%3F

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet17.htm A lot of info on Amino Acids

Also The Wister has a great topic on Supplements

http://lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?t=49606




-Matt

[the wister]

Apples to Oranges to Kumqwats.

Take them all if budget permits. Thanks for the love matt, glad you found it useful.

[LiquidMercury16]

isnt creatine a steroid? well the amino acid formula would give you more protein which would give u more muscles (amino acids make up proteins which make up enzymes).


As far as your question goes CT stick with protein/weight gainers/and creatine. Amino acids are a waste of money if you have a high protein diet. Take a protein shake 2-3 times daily and take a weight gainer shake immediately after your workout. Take creatine after your workout. Do this and eat everything in site and you will gain size and strength if you are lifting correctly. Supplements are supposed to a supplement to your diet not your diet so if you don't get enough solid food calories in you won't get the size either. How tall/much do you weigh?

[CtLaxin]

why are amino acids a waste of money?

[LiquidMercury16]

because you get plenty of amino acids in basic protein powders and meat. The ones in protein powders are usually full spectrum amino acids (they have all of the amino acids) so taking an additional amino acid supplement is kind of retarded. The only one I'd say would be beneficial would be BCAA (Branched Chain Amino Acids) which are the most important type of amino acids for recovery and putting on muscle. But as I said if you have a high enough protein intake these are unnecessary as well. Not to mention both amino acids and BCAA are much more expensive than the powder. Also when buying powder don't be lulled in wiht marketing bs. Muscletech is generally crap and tastes like crap, BSN tastes alright but is overpriced, I personally like SI and Sci Fit, Cellucor makes great creatine, um gaspari has some good NOS and Creatine products, GNC stuff tastes like crap and generally is crap but is the cheapest. Any more questions feel free to ask.

[matt25]

many protein shakes have BCAA's in them (Branched Chained Amino Acids)

http://www.optimumnutrition.com/products/100-whey-gold-standard-p-201.html

It has over 5 grams of: BCAAs

I take that kind.....

ahh beat me to it mercury.....

But like Wister says they are all totally different things.....


-Matt

[CtLaxin]

What about this? http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet17.htm

also i wan planning on getting the pills not the powder

[matt25]

Why waste your money when you can already have it in your protein,or powder instead i mean if you really want to but i think that the protein w/ Bcaas would suffice at least for now along with creatine if you wanted.....

[LiquidMercury16]

Don't get the pills, you will be spending like 400 bucks a month tryring to get in enough protein. Just take the powder. There are good tasting shakes, optimum nutrition isn't that great. Try taking it in water and you realize it won't break up and tastes like crap. And yes BCAA's are in every protein shake, but you can always use more that's why they make the specific supplement.

And as far as the link you posted CT, those are just regular amino acids but only like 2 grams worth which isn't close to enough. Believe me take the powder, the pills will costs you hundreds and you'll be swallowing like 100 pills a day.

[CtLaxin]

Something like this
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2134090&cp=2108321.2173639&parentPage=family

you only have to take 3 a day and its pretty cheap.

Also Im not really trying to defend the amino acids im just trying to find out about them and which of the three are the best


or this one
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/un/amino4.html

which is cheaper and has a lot more amino acids, although you have to take 12 daily, theres more pills in the bottle

[LiquidMercury16]

No. Ok CT i'm going to explain something to you. Recommended dosages will not make you bigger. That product is for supplemental aide but only has like 5g amino acids. Let's say you are 180 lbs. I'd say minimum 225g protein a day. I work at a GNC believe me you don't want the pills or need them. Stick with the powder. Amino Acids = Protein Powder. Protein Powder = Amino Acids in powder form. comprende? If you got that bottle of amino acids you should (if you're trying to gain size and strength) go through that whole bottle in about 3 days.

[CtLaxin]

what about that second one?

Calories: 24
 Calories from Fat: 0
Total Fat: 0g
Sodium: 0mg
Total Carbohydrates: 0g
Protein: 6g

Essential Amino Acids:
L-Leucine: 756 mg
L-Isoleucine: 376 mg
L-Valine: 296 mg
L-Lysine: 636 mg
L-Threonine: 244 mg
L-Methionine: 126 mg
L-Phenylalanine: 234 mg
L-Tryptophan: 156 mg

Non-Essential Amino Acids:
L-Arginine: 112 mg
L-Aspartic Acid: 626 mg
L-Cystine/Cystein: 224 mg
L-Alanine: 308 mg
L-Glutamic Acid: 1002 mg
L-Glycine: 116 mg
L-Histidine: 126 mg
L-Proline: 252 mg
L-Serine: 238 mg
L-Tyrosine: 210 mg

[LiquidMercury16]

ITS ONLY 6G PROTEIN! Think about it. That is too Fricken Low. Powder has 20-27g of protein/scoop, double the scoop you get 40-54g. I'm not going to argue this point with you anymore. If you want to piss away your money feel free.

[GoBucks]

My friend has a huge tub of protein and creatine, and the protein has something like 20g per scoop. He recommended that I stay with the generic brands like GNC.

For those asking about creatine, creatine is made up of 3 amino acids. Once inside the muscle cells, it turns into creatine phosphate, which is responsible for short energy bursts. It helps boost your levels of ATP (adenosine triphosphate), which is the main fuel for muscle contractions. Creatine helps you to put out that one last rep, and the more reps and more weight, the stronger the muscle becomes.

My source: http://www.building-muscle101.com/creatine-information.html

And 6g of protein is way too little. In a protein shake or powder you should have at least 15g. Speaking of that, has anyone ever had a 50 Gram Slam?

[LiquidMercury16]

GNC brand tastes like crap, cheaper but tastes like crap. 50 grand slams taste alright but your body can only absorb so much protein in one sitting. Anything more then 35g in one sitting for someone under 200 lbs is a waste, anything more than 50g for someone under 250 lbs in one sitting is a waste, so on so forth. Personally if I'm going to be taking something 3 times a day or I want it to taste good. I stay away from milk because it's loaded with sugars will spike insulin levels and make you hold onto fat, and dairy products cause stomach bloating. They are good for the calcium aspect but too much of anything is a bad thing. So I try to find protein I can mix in water without it tasting bad, which is few and far between.

[Diesel4958]

GNC brand tastes like crap, cheaper but tastes like crap. 50 grand slams taste alright but your body can only absorb so much protein in one sitting. Anything more then 35g in one sitting for someone under 200 lbs is a waste, anything more than 50g for someone under 250 lbs in one sitting is a waste, so on so forth. Personally if I'm going to be taking something 3 times a day or I want it to taste good. I stay away from milk because it's loaded with sugars will spike insulin levels and make you hold onto fat, and dairy products cause stomach bloating. They are good for the calcium aspect but too much of anything is a bad thing. So I try to find protein I can mix in water without it tasting bad, which is few and far between.


try Vitamin shoppe brand protein, it's sweetened with sucralose pretty sweet no cals. tastes fine.

[CtLaxin]

So i ended up getting the Syntrax Nectar protein with Xceed

[MACDADDY]

if you eat alot of protein, then don't buy amino acids

one reason they make them are because some vegetarians don't get enough of the 20 main amino acids in their system so they can take those. that and some people just don't get enough protein.

[Tool]

ugh, all you need is protein powder and a weight gainer and FOOD! don't waste your money on these crappy no2 or creatine products, they are just a scam for the supplement industry, if you want to grow, eat a lot of food, calories = growth, there is no miracle pill or powder, it is diet and exercise no matter what you're trying to accomplish, taking creatine or n02 isn't going to do crap for you without a good diet

[LiquidMercury16]

creatine is far from a scam. It is a very large reason as to why the Soviet Union was so dominant in olympic sports from the 60's-80's. I will agree and say NO2 is relatively money oriented but it does give you the energy to get some great workouts in but is not necessary at all. Protein, Weight Gainers, and Creatine are truly essential.

CTLax, Didn't mean to be a dick about everything but glad you got the protein. Syntrax is good tasting and can be mixed well in water. My only qualms with it is it's kind of high in cholesterol but most of us youngins are fine with that especially people as active as lax players.

[infamous]

LiquidMercury16- Have you taken Surge or Metabolic Drive? You can buy them off t- nation. They taste awesome and are really high quality proteins. I just started working out seriously, ie. solid plan, good nutrtion, etc. and I've been implementing these in my diet. So far, I've put on 8 pounds while reducing my body fat.

[LiquidMercury16]

haven't tried them yet, I get my supps for free from my store/sales reps from companies so I really see no point in buying stuff when I can get high quality stuff for free. However, I've heard great things about surge. I have tried powerdrive (mental focus) stuff that biotest sells. It tastes pretty good and helps for recovery with the CNS. All that taurine and B vits are great for that. I can't have surge because of the sugars and I'm on the anabolic diet which only allows me 30g sugar M-F and on sat and sun I just stick to solid foods. If I ever get rid of my job where I don't get stuff for free I'll probably switch on over to biotest products because they are a great bang for the buck. Congrats on the 8 lbs. If you just started lifting you are gettin "newb gains" which are crazy good gains in quick periods of time. If I were you I'd be taking in as much calories as possible to really get the most out of this time period of unbelievable growth. After you start to slow down and have normal gains go back to a good normal high calorie diet.

[Lax.53]

GNC brand tastes like crap, cheaper but tastes like crap. 50 grand slams taste alright but your body can only absorb so much protein in one sitting. Anything more then 35g in one sitting for someone under 200 lbs is a waste, anything more than 50g for someone under 250 lbs in one sitting is a waste, so on so forth. Personally if I'm going to be taking something 3 times a day or I want it to taste good. I stay away from milk because it's loaded with sugars will spike insulin levels and make you hold onto fat, and dairy products cause stomach bloating. They are good for the calcium aspect but too much of anything is a bad thing. So I try to find protein I can mix in water without it tasting bad, which is few and far between.

honestly dude, stop giving advice. You are typical GNC, giving out advice/information that is wrong/not justified. You hear something and instantly it becomes nutrition doctrine? no dude, not everything everyone tells you is true.

[LiquidMercury16]

what are you talking about, what exactly have I said that is false. I was giving opinions on what things tasted like. As far as protein absorbtion goes yes there is a maximum each person can ingest in one sitting that will actually be used. Anything unused gets stored as fat for the most part or crapped out or burnt off due to the thermic effect it has when it's being broken down. So please, please tell me where I have made nutrition doctrine. I'd agree most GNC people are absolute morons, I would say I'm not and have had plenty of nutritional education (US national team coaches/nutritionist for rowing, minor in nutrition, plenty of physiology classes as well. Have also used myself, and people I train as test subjects to test out theories with dieting/nutrition/training. What are you, a kid in highschool? still in college? So before you start to just bash, why not tell people what credentials you have, and what exactly is so false about my information.

[Lax.53]

only credentials i have are my stats, and actual experience with training and supplementation, lol you have any actual certifications? or just some classes you took and stuff you heard?

any idea what the GI of milk is? or how fat plays a role in Insulin response/sensitivity?

[LiquidMercury16]

yes I know that the GI on milk is low compared to plenty of other things and I know exactly how fat and insulin can go hand in hand. Insulin is great at times and not so great at other times. Obviously you want insulin spikes after workouts and what not so as to stay anabolic longer and what not. Insulin most definitely serves its purpose. I am saying milk in general has alot of carbs for my diet and I try to find a protein shake that will dissolve well in water. My diet follows the lines of ketogenics but is more of an extended carb cycling with 5 days of very low carb (<30g) while 2 days of high carb (65% of total). And when you are low carb like that milk and it's carbs release more insulin then if I had higher insulin tolerance as I would on a higher carb diet.

As far as certs go, ACE, CISSN, and IFPA.

[Lax.53]

yes I know that the GI on milk is low compared to plenty of other things and I know exactly how fat and insulin can go hand in hand. Insulin is great at times and not so great at other times. Obviously you want insulin spikes after workouts and what not so as to stay anabolic longer and what not. Insulin most definitely serves its purpose. I am saying milk in general has alot of carbs for my diet and I try to find a protein shake that will dissolve well in water. My diet follows the lines of ketogenics but is more of an extended carb cycling with 5 days of very low carb (<30g) while 2 days of high carb (65% of total). And when you are low carb like that milk and it's carbs release more insulin then if I had higher insulin tolerance as I would on a higher carb diet.

As far as certs go, ACE, CISSN, and IFPA.

very nice...

first, how the hell do you play lacrosse on a ketogenic style diet

second, how do you afford to pay for those 3 certs? and keep them current?

[LiquidMercury16]

1. I'm on a carb cycle diet even though it's boarderline ketogenic. And as far as playing on it, I don't. I only use it for off seasons to gain some mass.
http://static.scribd.com/docs/3ntz51o1kjlaf.pdf (this is for cbury, and lax.53 kids stay away). I go back to a decent amount of carbs in season.

2. I have 3 jobs, I work with an accounting firm, I personal train, and GNC on the weekends. That's how I pay. And before you say something about me working with an accounting firm and having a nutrition mino r...I have a BA in accounting, minor in nutrition. Had to have a minor to get the BA, department requirement. I'm now working on masters in taxation and gonna sit for my cpa.

[Lax.53]

1. I'm on a carb cycle diet even though it's boarderline ketogenic. And as far as playing on it, I don't. I only use it for off seasons to gain some mass.
http://static.scribd.com/docs/3ntz51o1kjlaf.pdf (this is for cbury, and lax.53 kids stay away). I go back to a decent amount of carbs in season.

2. I have 3 jobs, I work with an accounting firm, I personal train, and GNC on the weekends. That's how I pay. And before you say something about me working with an accounting firm and having a nutrition mino r...I have a BA in accounting, minor in nutrition. Had to have a minor to get the BA, department requirement. I'm now working on masters in taxation and gonna sit for my cpa.

Thats awesome man, ive been looking into getting an actual cert but right now i dont have the financial means to do so :(. I know a lot just dont have the actual cert to make money off my knowledge. Also, pdf taking forever to load so ill take a look when i get home, im off to work right now.

[LiquidMercury16]

definite;y check the pdf when you get a chance, its great. I got the certs to continue my education. Most certs are bs but if you want to make any money got to have them

[Lax.53]

definite;y check the pdf when you get a chance, its great. I got the certs to continue my education. Most certs are bs but if you want to make any money got to have them

sadly i know EXACTLY what you mean. its a shame when a lot of trainers have little to know experience or knowledge but theyhave a piece of paper that enables them to train. Its a goal I have however right now I dont have the resources to get one.

[LiquidMercury16]

ACE is usually the cheapest and most widely recognized. Is all you need really is just one cert to do business. I just got a bunch because I wanted to keep my education going. I don't even plan on training once I get my masters degree, than I'll have no need what so ever financially but I'll still probably continue taking classes.

[Cburylax]

sadly i know EXACTLY what you mean. its a shame when a lot of trainers have little to know experience or knowledge but they have a piece of paper that enables them to train. Its a goal I have however right now I dont have the resources to get one.

And its quite frightening and a huge liability for both the trainer and the client, and even the gym. You must also consider the difference between a personal trainer and strength coach, they are very different. In addition, being certified does not necessarily mean up-to-date. I can usually pose the following scenario to any personal trainer and their response is usually a good indicator if I would trust them training any of my clients, or even myself:

"During squats, my right leg tends to externally rotate and I can feel my bodyweight shift laterally to the left on the eccentric movement. I'm trying to increase my 5 rep max by 50lbs and I have 9 weeks to do it. Can you tell why my leg is moving and why my body is shifting. What can you recommend for me to increase the weight?"

[LiquidMercury16]

And its quite frightening and a huge liability for both the trainer and the client, and even the gym. You must also consider the difference between a personal trainer and strength coach, they are very different. In addition, being certified does not necessarily mean up-to-date. I can usually pose the following scenario to any personal trainer and their response is usually a good indicator if I would trust them training any of my clients, or even myself:

"During squats, my right leg tends to externally rotate and I can feel my bodyweight shift laterally to the left on the eccentric movement. I'm trying to increase my 5 rep max by 50lbs and I have 9 weeks to do it. Can you tell why my leg is moving and why my body is shifting. What can you recommend for me to increase the weight?"

I'd say weak abductors, toes are too boxed up and should be pointed out more so as to take strain of the knee and prevent it from buckling, also there is a possible imbalance between right and left legs. It is also quite likely that depending on where the shift is occuring that there may be an imbalance between quads and hamstrings/glutes. I'd say drop the weight, focus on technique (this will also serve to deload your CNS which may be necessary to increase your max) and do more hamstring/glute work. Also since there may be an imbalance between the legs it is necessary to push with the right and left leg evenly instead of pushing more with the right, this can be fixed with concentration and possible overcompensation of the left leg with a lower weight to build up the left leg to correct the strength imbalance.

[Dizzle]

yo ct lax great choice with the syntrax nectars id recommend that to others as well it tastes like a smoothie and gives you lean protein

[CtLaxin]

yo ct lax great choice with the syntrax nectars id recommend that to others as well it tastes like a smoothie and gives you lean protein

actually i didnt like it straight with water at first but it is very easy to make a smoothie with it that tastes like a good smoothie. I drink it all the time

[LiquidMercury16]

the chocolate syntax is good in water.

[Lax.53]

the chocolate syntax is good in water.


the cookies and cream is even bettteerrr. yummmm.

[NC-LACROSSE]

the average american gets twice the amount of protein needed in a normal diet... wheight training you mihgt still want to take some protien supplements but if ur eating right then u should be good... dont drink 2-3 shakes a day. one shake is a full days diet of protein (for a normal diet). there is a difference between gaining strength and gaining wheight. the two are related but depending on what you want to gain u should chang eur diet accordingly. just eating alot and working out will give you whieght gain but to get the most out of whieght training you should talk to a professional nutrisionist that really "knows what there talking about" and that can actually see your body type.

basicaly dont listen to everything u here talk to somone at your gym that can see what u need based on what u want...

[RoamingStorm]

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins and proteins make your muscles, however each amino acid has a specific function, Glutamine repairs muscles extremely quickly (good for endurance), I highly reccommend it.

Overall with what your talking about I suggest taking 20-25 grams of a good whey protein supplement. They have all the main amino acids for building muscles, repairing them and getting the best energy, remember drink lots of water!! amino acids and protein break down to uric acid and a too high concentration of uric acid can damage your kidneys over a long period of time

[infamous]

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459493

7 Habits of Highly Effective Nutritional Programs