Knowledge

[Riot]

Is it innate or gained through experience?



Discuss.

[QnzLaxStatz]

gained through exprience...knowledge is obtained by learning and expreriencing new things...

[jedimasterPIMP]

Well knowledge is what we know so i guess knowledge is acquired by learning, however I think that your capacity and ability to learn is innate.

[tiplax]

hmmmm.... first i see you overcame your fear to make this thread lol

but i think the capacity you have to withhold knowledge is innate, thus some people will be able to become more intelligent than others. i believe this is also a case of nurture. The enviorment you grow up in will determine how well you you can think(simplistic thinking). That meaning if you grow up in a more cililized society which stresses the importance of knowledge, you will beable to become more knowledgeable...thus becoming smarter.
if you are placed in a society where you are encouraged to say...prefrom physical labor and go to work, you won't have ambition to learn becasue all you know is work. Thus if you can later in life leave work, your brain won't be accustomed to thinking and learning so you can't be as smart as a person who was brought up to learn
^it's pretty wordy to type ad get a point across clearly and i would be much easier to explain in person

here are some examples if you didn't really understand my point:
1) Tarzan and Jane.
Tarzan a man of the jungle was raised by animals and he was only concerned with eating and all that jungle stuff. Jane was the daughter of some naturalist scientist guy and she was educated. When they meet Jane tries to teach Tarzan to read and all that junk and he slowly progresses. He will never be able to fit in, and he will never be able to become "smart" by society's starndards because he was not exposed to learning

2) Serfs vs nobility in the middle ages
The nobles and their children were educated and taught with classic literature. The serfs were uneducated and forced to work the land. they could never become smart even if they studied because they don't have the resources to do it. and they worked into adult hood where it is scientifically proven you can't learn as well. so techinally science proves if you don't learn while you are young, it's harder to learn as and adult....man i hate bringing science into this

[Riot]

What about instincts? There is so much that humans and animals naturally know -- how can you chalk all of that up to experience?

[Riot]

What about euclidean geometry? Toddlers know it, I doubt it was ever taught to them.

[manup5183]

Learned through expierence, not education. Life lessons that you learn or better yet, learn through mistakes simply cant be the knowledge that someone is born with.

[tiplax]

What about instincts? There is so much that humans and animals naturally know -- how can you chalk all of that up to experience?
i think instincts account for most of our knowledge.
some of you are probably fimilar with Sigmund Freuds idea of the Id, Ego and super ego(if you don't know, go look it up, it's very interesteing). basically it's just 3 levels of your subconscious. the Id= natural instinct and preforms based on rewards and plesures. The super ego is the opposite of the Id and preforms based on moraltity. and the go is the middle ground between the 2
it's like in Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde Hyde represents the Id and Jekyll represents the Super ego and he is runined and dies because he can't find a middle ground which is the Ego

but i think that natural instinct + Id personalities will allow you to become smarter but you need slight super ego to maintain morality within your self

[cjm3113]

I think you are born with knowledge, and teaching/learning is just unlocking it. What you are capable of (to a point) is already determined. And this is why some people can give it all they can and not understand something that others have no problem with.

[cjm3113]

i think instincts account for most of our knowledge.
some of you are probably fimilar with Sigmund Freuds idea of the Id, Ego and super ego(if you don't know, go look it up, it's very interesteing). basically it's just 3 levels of your subconscious. the Id= natural instinct and preforms based on rewards and plesures. The super ego is the opposite of the Id and preforms based on moraltity. and the go is the middle ground between the 2
it's like in Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde Hyde represents the Id and Jekyll represents the Super ego and he is runined and dies because he can't find a middle ground which is the Ego

but i think that natural instinct + Id personalities will allow you to become smarter but you need slight super ego to maintain morality within your self

Just a quick summary for those who don't know what he is talking about.

The Id is based on survival. It would kill to survive. It has no feelings, it does what gives you the best advantage.

The Super Ego is completely based on morality. It would let you die of starvation before it stole food.

Leaving the ego, which has to set you somewhere in between. You must do enough to survive, but not as a cold hearted killer.

The theory allows for different egos to produce different types of people.

[cali feeder]

Knowledge is innate, but we build upon that knowledge through learning.

[Lax'N'Roll]

congrats on making the first thread on philosophy Riot
I believe it is gained through expirience

Riot, I think you should have a weekly philosophical thread

[marflax33]

Wisdom is gained through experience. Knowledge can go either way...

[cali feeder]

Wisdom is gained through experience....

That's what I was trying to say, sort of.

[lacrosseman192]

both innate and gained through experience

you can have some little knowledge but then you build upon it on experience so mainly knowledge is through experience

[LiquidMercury16]

I'd say you could compare knowledge to a skyscraper possible. The bottom levels (the foundations) are taught and all the experience is a result of what has been taught.

[mvlax11]

Like stated above, knowledge is what you know, and what you know is what you've learned. I assume that there must be something innate about it, or else how would you ever learn. A person isn't a mindless drone when they are born, they have the blueprints to do actions like crying at birth or looking around. A baby knows how to do those things, but isn't conscious of it. A person eventually acquires the understanding of the identities and abstract properties of a person's surroundings.
What is definitely innate, is the speed in which you can acquire it and whether you can retain it. Unfortunately, scientific knowledge of the brain is very limited in comparison to other studies, so we don't know enough about the brain to fully understand the origin of thought and understanding.

[Riot]

I had a long argument written out, but the power went out. Oh well.

but i think the capacity you have to withhold knowledge is innate, thus some people will be able to become more intelligent than others. i believe this is also a case of nurture. That doesn't make sense -- knowledge can't be both innate and the result of nuturement. Innate knowledge means you were born with it, it just needs to be drawn out of you (i.e. Socratic Method).



here are some examples if you didn't really understand my point:
1) Tarzan and Jane.
Tarzan a man of the jungle was raised by animals and he was only concerned with eating and all that jungle stuff. Jane was the daughter of some naturalist scientist guy and she was educated. When they meet Jane tries to teach Tarzan to read and all that junk and he slowly progresses. He will never be able to fit in, and he will never be able to become "smart" by society's starndards because he was not exposed to learning Tarzan may never catch up to Jane -- she's had too big of a head start -- but that doesn't mean if you put him in Kindergarten he wouldn't progress the same as somebody with an equal education.

2) Serfs vs nobility in the middle ages
The nobles and their children were educated and taught with classic literature. The serfs were uneducated and forced to work the land. they could never become smart even if they studied because they don't have the resources to do it. and they worked into adult hood where it is scientifically proven you can't learn as well. so techinally science proves if you don't learn while you are young, it's harder to learn as and adult....man i hate bringing science into this Yeah, serfdom also taught lazyness as a virtue, which really screwed the surfs over, even generations after it ended.


Have any of you seen a perfect circle? Probably not. But, you still know what one looks like -- how?

[LiquidMercury16]

Actually I've seen a perfect circle, a better example would be have you ever seen a billion dollars cash in nickels.

[Riot]

Actually I've seen a perfect circle, a better example would be have you ever seen a billion dollars cash in nickels. Sure, same idea. But I've seen a billion dollars in nickels. ;)

[HoyaSaxa]

Being that the definition of knowledge is that it is something known through experience/learning I don't think you can argue that it is innate.

[Riot]

There are many different definitions.

[HoyaSaxa]

Find a reputable dictionary that doesn't mention learning or experience then. Good luck.

[ESPN]

knowledge is how much you know. no one is born with knowledge, but some get more than others based on multiple variables.

[Riot]

Find a reputable dictionary that doesn't mention learning or experience then. Good luck.
Knowledge is defined (Oxford English Dictionary) variously as (i) facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information or (iii) awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation. Philosophical debates in general start with Plato's formulation of knowledge as "justified true belief". There is however no single agreed definition of knowledge presently, nor any prospect of one, and there remain numerous competing theories.

Knowledge acquisition involves complex cognitive processes: perception, learning, communication, association, and reasoning. The term knowledge is also used to mean the confident understanding of a subject, potentially with the ability to use it for a specific purpose.
Find a reputable dictionary that has only one definition of knowledge.

In other words, if one derives their account of something experientially, because the world of sense is in flux, the views therein attained will be mere opinions. And opinions are characterized by a lack of necessity and stability. On the other hand, if one derives their account of something by way of the non-sensible forms, because these forms are unchanging, so too is the account derived from them. It is only in this sense that Plato uses the term "knowledge."

Oh yeah, incase you guys didn't know, Plato says knowledge is innate, Aristotle says it's gained through experience.

[manup5183]

riot, do you always agree with what you are defending or are you just trying to spark debate?