FS/WTB idea for safer trading, buying and selling

[DutchyLacrosse]

The safety of traders, buyers and sellers
I've been putting alot of thought in that problem that's increasing over the past few months, seeing that alot more users are getting wronged these days.

This is the idea to increase the safety:

The plan
People that want to join in the Secured User status deposit their personal information to the Safekeeper through a PM

Wich means:
First Name
Last Name
Phone number
Adress
Zipcode + City
State

After the Safekeeper sends it's approval to the user, the user is granted to wear the Secured User tag in their signature.

Whenever there's a dispute it can easily be solved by PMing the Safekeeper for the Personal Info of the user (if registered as a Secured User).

The Safekeeper keeps track of the registered users by creating a database in a word file, that way the Safekeeper can somewhat insure the users of keeping their privacy.

Last but not least, with this system people can see wich people are safer to deal with.
_________________________________________________

I'm willing to give up some spare time and function as the Safekeeper to give FS/WTB forum more security.

Give your thoughts and opinion about this idea, it's not perfect yet but i'm getting there.

[sidewinder19]

Yesssss, do it, if it's a go, i am definitely in

[tiplax]

but who would be the safe keeper? is there 1 big person for the entire TLF? or is there a random person for every trade, like a 3rd party

[DutchyLacrosse]

but who would be the safe keeper? is there 1 big person for the entire TLF? or is there a random person for every trade, like a 3rd party

One Safekeeper, in order to secure the users privacy.
Also, random safekeepers can eventually lead in fraud plots with buyers.
So one safekeeper and if the job gets too big, the job can be shared with reputable users like yourself or sidewinder.

[sidewinder19]

Wow thanks for the respect, "reputable user", i like it....

This could be the best thing for TLF FS/WTB

[laxgthreeone]

this could work magicc, this and Rits idea for the new feedback trend will improve the fs/wtb forum a lot..

[The Doors]

agreed....but no offense dutchy, but i think the best option for a safe keeper would be a mod

[laxman 9990]

although i am for this idea, people could be ripped off just as easily

[lax@wwu21]

If your forum name starts with:

A number or symbol your safekeeper is "XXXXXXXXXX"

A-G your safekeeper is"YYYYYYYY"

H-N your safekeeper is "NNNNNNN"

And so on.

That might be an option, but someone will have to store all of that information.

Good idea? Yes.

Hard to implement? Yes.

[DutchyLacrosse]

agreed....but no offense dutchy, but i think the best option for a safe keeper would be a mod

No offence taken, i just hope a mod is willing to give this idea a shot.

[tiplax]

the thing with a mod doing it is, that people will get the idea that TLF can be held responsible for trades

[stinisonfire]

the thing with a mod doing it is, that people will get the idea that TLF can be held responsible for trades

And that's exactly why we don't do it. Buying, selling & trading on here is a do it at your own risk deal.

I personally think it's a good idea, but as much traffic and volume moves through daily, do you you think one person could handle X amount of trades going through him/her?

[tiplax]

And that's exactly why we don't do it. Buying, selling & trading on here is a do it at your own risk deal.

I personally think it's a good idea, but as much traffic and volume moves through daily, do you you think one person could handle X amount of trades going through him/her?

the way i understand it though, is that the safekeeper only initlely registers traders, so they can put something in their sig saying the safekeeper has their info

so i don't think the safe keeper would have to do to much more than make a long sheet with members addresses, names and #'s

then when someone needs someone else's info, they would ask the safe keeper

[truste1]

Unless somebody intentionally gives wrong information to the Safekeeper.

[tiplax]

Unless somebody intentionally gives wrong information to the Safekeeper.

i was thinking that, but to at least make sure the phone # is right, the person should have to call the safekeeper

[CSlax06]

It seems to work on paper but there are so many transactions and such that it would become unbearable. Plus, if something ever happened, the safe-keeper could be held responsible for whatever reason.

I say good idea, but thumbs down. Buy, sell and trade at your own risk.

[ML_LAX09]

It seems to work on paper but there are so many transactions and such that it would become unbearable. Plus, if something ever happened, the safe-keeper could be held responsible for whatever reason.

I say good idea, but thumbs down. Buy, sell and trade at your own risk.

After you get passed everyone registering, there really wouldn't be all that much traffic. How many cases per week are there of people getting scammed and needing the person's info? Maybe 2-3 a week. So it wouldn't be all that much work for the safekeeper after everyone registers.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about the scams per week number. That was really just a guesstiminte. I imagine it can't be too high though?

I agree with CS on the fact that people would feel that the safekeeper is responsible if something does happen though. But it's really just their own risk they're taking. Unfortunatly, many people think that TLF is responsible for the F/S WTTB forum.

I think that we need to come up with a way to keep scammers away from the F/S WTTB forum because it is such an easy target right now. I can see why some Mods want to just get rid of it alltogether.

Now if you go into ESPN's thread, I think TLF should use something like that. Something that resembles EBay's trading stats. It is WAY to easy to lie about your trading stats.
1.) You could just lie in your sig.
2.) You could make an alternate account to give yourself feedback in the Good Traders thread.
That's why if someone has like +10/-0 and they joined in th esame month, I'll usually either check them out to see if all their feedback is from one kid whose only post is that thread.

In my opinion, this idea, although good, won't help stop people from getting scamed. I predict this turning out to be like the Good Traders list. Something that was a great idea, but after time, just turns into a huge job and still doesn't help from people getting scamed. Which IMO, is the problem in that forum.

My 2¢ anyway...

[tiplax]

It would make a lot more sense, if each person asked for all that info, before they traded. Why have a huge list, when you can get that info before you trade?

it would save every body the hassle of going to the secret keeper

+ all that info is stuff you should get anyway

[ML_LAX09]

It would make a lot more sense, if each person asked for all that info, before they traded. Why have a huge list, when you can get that info before you trade?

it would save every body the hassle of going to the secret keeper

+ all that info is stuff you should get anyway

Exactly.

Just get the stuff before you ship and call the number to confirm it is correct, check the address, check the AIM, etc etc...

[sidewinder19]

It should not be mandatory to sign with a safe keeper though, like it could just another credible thing to say you are. Like:

I am a
-+55 seller
-safegaurded
-mod
-platinum HOF

and so forth, whichever applies to your case

that way you can have more protection, but if you feel uncomfortable with giving your info, the other trader way want you to ship first

[ML_LAX09]

It should not be mandatory to sign with a safe keeper though, like it could just another credible thing to say you are. Like:

I am a
-+55 seller
-safegaurded
-mod
-platinum HOF

and so forth, whichever applies to your case

that way you can have more protection, but if you feel uncomfortable with giving your info, the other trader way want you to ship first

Yea, but we don't want to make it sound like if you don't register, you ship first. Because not everyone want's to give away their info.

Only thing is, the trader feedback system isn't working that well. People are still sometimes getting scammed by people with high feedback.

[KnightsLAXDad]

Although I don't have the final say, I can pretty much guarantee that this will not happen on TLF (not to say that it isn't a good idea) for a couple of reasons.

1) It is very clear that TLF is in no way involved in any deal between members other than providing a communications medium. Anything other than that would imply some level of "responsibility" in the transactions. All transactions are "at you own risk"

2) Logistically, there is no foolproof , or even reasonably certain, way to ensure that the user information is genuine or not so there is no way to guarantee that a user on the "safe" list really is safe. Again, there is implied liability on the list keeper to ensure that the information is correct when others are depending on it (think lawsuit here).

If someone wants to do this outside the boundaries of TLF , good luck, but incorporating into membership information etc isn't going to happen.


As an aside, the only way that this could work is if someone setup a "clearing house" for transactions. Everything goes through the clearing house and nothing is released to the end-users until all of the pieces are in place at the clearing house. For example, I trade a head to someone for a shaft. We both send it to the clearing house. When both the head and the shaft are at the clearing house then the clearing house sends the articles to the respective parties. That way if one person doesn't send the item/money within a certain time period the item/cash gets returned. The biggest drawback is double shipping costs and time, but you would always either complete the transaction or get your item/money returned.

KLD.

[ML_LAX09]

Although I don't have the final say, I can pretty much guarantee that this will not happen on TLF (not to say that it isn't a good idea) for a couple of reasons.

1) It is very clear that TLF is in no way involved in any deal between members other than providing a communications medium. Anything other than that would imply some level of "responsibility" in the transactions. All transactions are "at you own risk"

2) Logistically, there is no foolproof , or even reasonably certain, way to ensure that the user information is genuine or not so there is no way to guarantee that a user on the "safe" list really is safe. Again, there is implied liability on the list keeper to ensure that the information is correct when others are depending on it (think lawsuit here).

If someone wants to do this outside the boundaries of TLF , good luck, but incorporating into membership information etc isn't going to happen.


KLD.


KLD, is there any chance of TLF implenting a design similar to EBay's trading feedback? Or no? Because I think that would help a ton, but no way regular users could do that. You would have to get the help of a Admin.

What if every new member on the sign up page, had to agree to a waiver? Dismissing TLF of all resonsiblility of the F/S WTTB forum?

[DutchyLacrosse]

Sadly yes, this system could be bypassed.
That's the reason why we should never stop improving on security of the buyers, sellers and traders on TLF.

Alas, good trader/bad trader system is outdated but still moderately effective.
Experienced scammers can easily find the loopholes that i also found.
The job of keeping the lists updated has become too big for the moderators to handle, due to the high traffic TLF is getting these days.

To improve on upon the original Safekeeper plan, due to the fine constructive criticism and opinions that this thread received:

The Safekeeper creates a thread where he lists all names that have been approved by him in the security plan.
Unauthorized registry can be kept out that way and scammers bearing the Secured User tag in their sigs can be unmasked.

Also, there will be a disclaimer in the thread stating:
***DISCLAIMER***
By depositing my personal information to the Safekeeper, i agree that the Safekeeper, TLF, Inside Lacrosse and all of it's subsidiaries cannot be held responsible for anyones actions within trades, selling, buying or anything else related to TLF's FS/WTB Forum
***DISCLAIMER

This way, the registered users are aware of the fact that they are still doing business at their own risk and if not, it's still their own problem.

Although this idea is taking a good shape, it still needs improving on.
Keep the comments coming in, so there can be thought about solutions to problems that i have yet to see.

Thanks everyone!