Bodybuilding vs Athletic Training

[Cburylax]

I'd like to offer a different perspective on training. If you are still training by working chest and tris on day 1, legs on day 2, back and bis on day three, using a weight pyramid scheme, and your exercises only include what you find in a Muscle and Fitness Magazine:

bench press
chest press machine
incline bench press
shoulder press machine
lateral raises
front raises
bicep curls
tricep pressdowns
lat pulldowns
seated row (cable or machine)
one are bent row
leg press
leg curl
leg extension

then let me bring up a few key principles of athletic training. Training like a bodybuilder will only make you bigger, it will NOT increase your athletic potential. In fact, training like a bodybuilder will increase your chance for injury (ie torn acl, torn rotator cuff, muscle spasms, sprained ankles, etc).

What I am going to explain is not relatively new but information that much of the professional fitness world has been learning and practicing over the last 3 to 5 years.

Before I begin, I am an NSCA CSCS with a BS in Nutritional Science and Sports Medicine.

[shiftylax]

Your creds are impressive. You might want to try to cut down on the pomposity of your post though. That stuff doesn't roll here.

[GCHSLax04]

I'm interested in hearing what you have to say, but all you really posted is your creds, I guess this is a 2 part post? And its not so much pompous as exasperated about something is my guess.

[Cburylax]

There are three planes of motion that include sagittal (front to back), frontal (side to side), and transverse (rotational). Do not be confused with the frontal plane...lateral movements are performed in the frontal plane.


A Lacrosse player plays lacrosse in all three planes of motion including straight sprinting, dodging, and spinning and shooting. In fact, much of the time a lacrosse player is moving in the transverse plane (rotational) whenever their torso rotates such as when shooting, facedodging, split dodging, roll dodging, throwing/passing, etc. The second point is to realize that all these movements happen on the field in an unstable environment. What I mean by this is that the playing conditions are constantly changing, ie the ground is uneven, players are running at you and you need to dodge, change direction, or run, and you are nearly always only in contact to the ground with your feet.

Looking at all the exercises in my first post you will notice that nearly all of them are peformed by either pushing weight forward or pulling weight backward. These movements are performed in the sagittal plane only (The Lat Pulldown and lateral raisers are performed in the frontal plane).

How can exercises performed in only one plane of motion help an athlete that must perform in all three planes of motion with much of the time spent in the transverse plane?

[Cburylax]

I'm just offering a different perspective and the information for you to make up your own mind. I can continue or just leave with that last question I posed.......

[GCHSLax04]

Please continue, I absolutely hate socratic method. And if someone complains they can;t understand something or anything along those lines, oh well thats their problem.

[Cburylax]

How can exercises performed in only one plane of motion help an athlete that must perform in all three planes of motion with much of the time spent in the transverse plane?


ACL tears are common in lacrosse and it is a rotational injury (transverse plane). Many times athletes will use the leg press, leg extension, leg curl, squat, and lunges as leg exercises. If you closely examine these exercises, you will see that ALL these movements are performed in the sagittal plane (front to back). If you train the knee to be strong in only one plane of motion, it will not be strong enough to cope with the forces placed upon it by the other two planes of motion. The result is injury.

This principle applies to the entire body. A lacrosse player needs to train in all three planes of motion.

[bigDman]

and what do you recomend doing to exsircize all the plans of motions.. your making great point.. please continue :worship:
(i get what hes saying andf im one of the younger ones here so dont mind people saying they dont get it)

[Cburylax]

There are a lot of exercises for all the different areas of the body. I'll post some photos of a couple in a few hours. Here is one for you to try:


Sit on a stability ball. Grab two dumbbells. Lift one leg off the ground. If you can do this without rolling off to either side, curl the weight like a bicep curl and then continue raising the weights into a shoulder press. Lower the weights back to the starting position while keeping only one foot on the ground. Don't use heavy weights to start. Try to get the form. Also, use a slower tempo. It should take approx. 8 seconds to raise the weight from start to finish and 8 seconds to lower the weight to the starting position. Do 15 reps.

NOTE: It is important to contract your transverse abdominus (TVA). You can do this by trying to touch your belly button to your spine. This is possble to do and maintain consistent breathing.


To make this harder, use only one dumbbell in your right hand and touch the ground only with your left leg. Switch sides.

More to come....

[bigDman]

so your saying those big stability balls are real good for trianing for lax beecause they exsirces all the little mussels need to stay stable

[Cburylax]

Yes, thats the idea. Dyna discs, foam cushions, bosu balls, and balance boards are other tools you can use to produce an unstable enviroment in which to train.

Don't forget we haven't even touched on Powerlifting and plyometrics yet.....

[Cburylax]

Here is another multi-planar exercise to try.

It is a one leg squat with cable row. Stand on your left leg and grip a low cable with your right hand. Squat down on your left leg while simultaneously extending your arm with the cable. Return to standing position while rowing the cable to your upper body. Do 15 reps on each side. Lowering movement should take 4 seconds, pause for 2 seconds, and return taking 4 seconds.

[chris818181]

more!!!!!!!!!

[Cburylax]

This is the one leg shoulder press on a stability ball and the standing version. The first exercise I described above also incorporates a bicep curl. More next week.....have a great weekend,

[RYU]

ACL tears are common in lacrosse and it is a rotational injury (transverse plane)... If you train the knee to be strong in only one plane of motion, it will not be strong enough to cope with the forces placed upon it by the other two planes of motion...What are some exercises you recommend for strengthening the knee in the transverse plane and preventing dreaded knee ligament injuries?

Would attaching elastic or therabands to the end of the foot (distal metatarsal region) and then twisting back & forth at the ankle (supinating & pronating) condition the knee to handle twisting forces (load applied under rotational torque)?

Do sideways & diaganol lunges help?

[bigDman]

my dad mentioned to me how you thinks those things are dangrous(the balls and unstable inverments) what do you think

[Longest]

my dad mentioned to me how you thinks those things are dangrous(the balls and unstable inverments) what do you think

Your dad is smart and ignorant at the same time. All weight training and athletics are dangerous, it's a matter of controlled risk as well as the purpose behind it. The balls are dangerous if you do not know what you are doing, same as bench pressing, playing lacrosse, using a treadmill, etc. If you are unsure what you are doing, make sure someone knowledgeable is there to spot you and keep you safe, same as beginning any exercise routine.

Dan

[bigDman]

Your dad is smart and ignorant at the same time.
yea that my dad for you... he thinks its alot more dangrous becauseof have the unstable envorment and your falling or the ball moving and the ball flying out for under you.. i guess with time and practice you can get good at anything

[Cburylax]

As with any exercise, there are progressions which need to be followed. Here are the progressions for stabilization exercises:

Two Feet
One Foot
Two Feet w/ stability ball
One Foot w/ Stability Ball
Two Feet w/ foam cushion/bosu ball/dyna disc
One Foot w/ foam cushion/bosu ball/dyna disc

Not every progression applies to every exercise but this is a general guideline.

Also, if you noticed the tempo I suggested for the exercises above, it is very slow. These type of movements are to be controlled. The goal is not to lift the weight but to stabilize your entire body through the whole range of motion.

[Cburylax]

What are some exercises you recommend for strengthening the knee in the transverse plane and preventing dreaded knee ligament injuries?

Would attaching elastic or therabands to the end of the foot (distal metatarsal region) and then twisting back & forth at the ankle (supinating & pronating) condition the knee to handle twisting forces (load applied under rotational torque)?

Do sideways & diaganol lunges help?


I'm not sure if you could replicate the amount of torque the knees experience during play with bands. Diagonal and lateral lunges are great exercises that you mentioned. Here are a few others:

Transverse Lunges
Multi-planar box steps to one leg
One Leg Squats
Multi-planar hops to one leg (hop onto one leg and hold for 3 sec before repeating)

[bigDman]

do you think youll ever put togther a full multiplaner workout scudle becasue im very intrested

[Cburylax]

do you think youll ever put togther a full multiplaner workout scudle becasue im very intrested

I'm sure you can find a trainer a local gym that can work with you, just explain that you want a complete training program for lacrosse including core stabilization, strength, and power components.

Unfortunately there is too much information that needs to be exchanged to write a program over the internet. Any good program is custom tailored to the athlete. I am working on a site though that will have video of all the exercises I've spoken about. I'll let you know when its up and ready to go...

[LAXatt]

wow thats interesting

[phslax007]

now i feel dumb for doing all those exercises in the first post. those do have some benefits to lacrosse though, right?

[Cburylax]

I'm sure you can find a trainer a local gym that can work with you, just explain that you want a complete training program for lacrosse including core stabilization, strength, and power components.

Unfortunately there is too much information that needs to be exchanged to write a program over the internet. Any good program is custom tailored to the athlete. I am working on a site though that will have video of all the exercises I've spoken about. I'll let you know when its up and ready to go...


Don't hold your breath....this video site will take at least until Dec.

[RYU]

now i feel dumb for doing all those exercises in the first post. those do have some benefits to lacrosse though, right?Those exercises are still relevant to lax. They benefit you by improving your general, all-around strength which will help you in any physical activity.

Cbury's point (if I'm not mistaken) is that those traditional lifts are the ONLY kind of resistance training that most people do. The average person neglects the other facets of resistance work like muscle stability, coordination, stamina, & power - training in 3-dimensions, as Cbury puts it. Refer to thread:
http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showthread.php?p=142483#post142483

How much a person can bench & curl is a poor predictor of how fast he can pitch an MLB fastball or shoot a lax ball. How much he can squat is a poor predictor of how fast he can sprint a 100m dash or how high he can vertical jump.