View Full Version : cardio program
franks2089
10-11-2004, 06:12 PM
well that topic got locked so i had to make a new thread.
Why dont you just jog at a track. Sprint 100 yards and then jog a hundred yards for like 2 or 3 miles
lacrosse64
10-12-2004, 07:38 PM
No one said you cant do that. I like to sprint the straight aways at 90-100% then jog the turns at 50-85%. i run about 4 miles. its a great workout and should get you ready for lax.
Wow, I gotta hand it to you guys, especially lax64. Either you have no concept of what it means to run inside your anaerobic threshold, or your lactic acid threshold is completely off the charts.
You're doing an alternating high intensity output w/ mid-intensity recovery fartlek style interval workout that would put world class athletes in their graves. The fastest sprinters in the world could do maybe 1/4 of your workout. Let us know when you make the US Olympic Team.
I don't know who's toughest: lax64 or...
franks2089, who each day does over 2 hrs of hard lifting and running before the morning school bell or...
the 140 lb rower kid who barbell squats 750 lbs.
You guys are all superhuman. Hats off to you all.
Cburylax
10-13-2004, 12:14 PM
well that topic got locked so i had to make a new thread.
Why dont you just jog at a track. Sprint 100 yards and then jog a hundred yards for like 2 or 3 miles
Perhaps I didn't make my point clear enough in that last thread. Lacrosse is a multi-planar sport and athletes need to train to run using this principle as well. Instead of soley running on a track which is more or less straight, insert some lateral shuffles, backwards running, sprints that require you to stop pivot and sprint again.
The goal is to try and reproduce the same movements you use in lacrosse. Running in a straight line is great for an open field fast break or to get back in the hole but how many times are you running and not changing direction? (oops...more socratic method)
I would try to speak to a qualified trainer at your gym or school for a balanced workout including running drills. Also, lets not forget about mult-planar agility exercises.
lacrosse64
10-13-2004, 06:36 PM
RYU you dotn really think before you speak do you? My 100% isnt at a olympic runners 100%. Example i run a 6:15 mile they run it much faster. i ve been doing winter track and cross country for 2 years now. My worrkouts are intense. I dont wake up sore the next day becasue i am well nutritioned and supplemented. Welcome to the world of L-Glutamine. No matter how hard you work out if you take a certain amount it will make you fell refreshed and not sore. I get 9 hours of sleep to be mentally refreshed. Once again i am not doing 2 hours of workouts. 1 hour of weight lifting 45-1 hour running. Its really nto that difficult if you DETERMINED AND INTO GIVING YOUR SELF A CHALLENGE TO IMPROVE.
LiquidMercury16
11-14-2004, 01:44 AM
the 140 lb rower kid who barbell squats 750 lbs.
Lol and I thought I had been forgotten about RYU, It's been so long since I've posted. Glad I'm well known though. Yah definitely blew out my knee squatting. And I was 155 not 140. I'm on the mend right now.
LiquidMercury16, I was going by memory. I stand corrected. You were 150 lbs squatting 720 & leg pressing 1090. Those are still world-class numbers for your weight-class.
http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showpost.php?p=28470&postcount=15
According to this database http://www.powermagonline.com/latest-news/records.asp,
you are only ~30 lbs short of the all-time world record squat for your weight-class.
By comparison, Dallas Cowboy's Guard Larry Allen is well over twice your size and widely considered the strongest man in the NFL. At 6'3", 335 lbs, he squats 900 lbs.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/players/10/05/poll.strongest/
LaxRef
11-14-2004, 04:10 PM
well that topic got locked so i had to make a new thread.
Why dont you just jog at a track. Sprint 100 yards and then jog a hundred yards for like 2 or 3 miles
When most people do sprints, they run too hard and just increase their chance of injury. If you're interested in running to become more fit, the book to read is Daniels' Running Formula. It gives you precise training speeds based on how fast you can run now.
In terms of fitness, and running in general, you should never sprint all-out. The only exception is if you're running the 100m or 200m, and even then they don't run very much of their training at full speed.
Cburylax
11-14-2004, 05:00 PM
When most people do sprints, they run too hard and just increase their chance of injury. If you're interested in running to become more fit, the book to read is Daniels' Running Formula. It gives you precise training speeds based on how fast you can run now.
In terms of fitness, and running in general, you should never sprint all-out. The only exception is if you're running the 100m or 200m, and even then they don't run very much of their training at full speed.
I'd be interested to know why you should never sprint all-out....
LaxRef
11-14-2004, 06:48 PM
I'd be interested to know why you should never sprint all-out....
It carries a risk of injury that's out of proportion to the benefits you get from it. Certainly, if you're training for distance running--which I am--you're far better off doing intervals that are only slightly above your target race pace.
For example, my Marathon goal pace is 7:53 per mile. Even when doing my fastest speedwork, I'm only supposed to do 200m repeats at a 6:16 per mile pace with full recovery in between each one. I could run these much faster, but I'd be risking injury.
I'm not an expert on training for a burst sport like lacrosse, but my guess would be that sprinting all-out is still not worth the risk, since you can sprint at, say, 95% of top speed and still get most of the benefits without all the risk.
LiquidMercury16
11-16-2004, 10:52 PM
LiquidMercury16, I was going by memory. I stand corrected. You were 150 lbs squatting 720 & leg pressing 1090. Those are still world-class numbers for your weight-class.
http://www.lacrosseforums.com/showpost.php?p=28470&postcount=15
According to this database http://www.powermagonline.com/latest-news/records.asp,
you are only ~30 lbs short of the all-time world record squat for your weight-class.
By comparison, Dallas Cowboy's Guard Larry Allen is well over twice your size and widely considered the strongest man in the NFL. At 6'3", 335 lbs, he squats 900 lbs.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/players/10/05/poll.strongest/
Guess i'm just genetically strong in legs? I really don't know how I do it.
LaxRef
11-17-2004, 07:54 AM
Guess i'm just genetically strong in legs? I really don't know how I do it.
Well, you obviously have a fantastic genetic potential, but you did the work to get to where you are now. But why do you row instead of doing a sport where strong legs are an asset?
(Kidding! I'm kidding! With legs like those, you may end up on an Olympic team.)
liquid, bro. were these plastic weights you were using? jk.
but seriously, was it a plastic bar and hollow weights?
ive seen a 600 lb squater before. he weighs about 300 lbs, and his quads, by looking at them, easy weigh as much as you. you cant squat that much.
if you think im wrong, why dont you post 1 pic of your legs. 155 lb. kid, squatting 720. i wanna see these wheels. even if your knee got messed up or whatever, they should still be the size of my torso.
LaxRef
11-17-2004, 04:28 PM
ive seen a 600 lb squater before. he weighs about 300 lbs, and his quads, by looking at them, easy weigh as much as you. you cant squat that much.
if you think im wrong, why dont you post 1 pic of your legs. 155 lb. kid, squatting 720. i wanna see these wheels. even if your knee got messed up or whatever, they should still be the size of my torso.
Could he be lying? Sure. But is a guy his size squatting that much impossible? No. Check out:
http://www.powermagonline.com/latest-news/records.asp
The record squat for the 67.5 kg (=148 lb) weight class is just a hare under 750 pounds.
What I think is more likely is that he's squatting using some sort of machine as opposed to free weights out on the floor; the calibration on those machines isn't always accurate (if you've ever seen an old Universal leg press machine, you'll know what I mean).
LiquidMercury16
11-17-2004, 07:35 PM
I am doing it on smith machine to try and minimize some strain on the knees so take off like 50 lbs or so
that changes things alot.
also, how far down did you go? knee jerks dont count.
and this was a regular smith machine, that uses free weights, right?
LiquidMercury16
11-18-2004, 12:28 PM
yes a regular machine that does free weights and I went down to 90 degrees.
phslax007
11-18-2004, 06:37 PM
ok i dont know anything about rowing..but i dont see how leg strength helps rowing, i thought rowing was like upper body especially back strength
LaxRef
11-18-2004, 07:21 PM
ok i dont know anything about rowing..but i dont see how leg strength helps rowing, i thought rowing was like upper body especially back strength
Fixed-seat rowing--like lifeguard boats, which I've rowed for over 20 years--are indeed almost all back (with some arm and a tiny bit of leg at most). But sliding-seat rowing, like you'll see in the Olympics, is primarily legs.
Have you ever seen one of those rowing machines with the flywheel fans and the sliding seats? Those are what the crew rowers train on in the winter.
For example, my Marathon goal pace is 7:53 per mile. Even when doing my fastest speedwork, I'm only supposed to do 200m repeats at a 6:16 per mile pace with full recovery in between each one. I could run these much faster, but I'd be risking injury.LaxRef, I think your advice on distance running that I've read is conservative & sound. The above training routine I question though, b/c I think it has little value for marathon distance. Marathons are about pacing. 200m's have little to do w/ pacing & a lot to do w/ accellerating. Running 200m intervals at a pace where you barely begin to tap your anaerobic threshold seems pointless to me. IMHO, any interval repeat distance below 400m is pointless for marathon training.
I'm not an expert on training for a burst sport like lacrosse, but my guess would be that sprinting all-out is still not worth the risk, since you can sprint at, say, 95% of top speed and still get most of the benefits without all the risk.I disagree & agree. I disagree in that, elite sprinters should & do train at 96-100%. I agree that for lax, it is more about interval sprint endurance than pure, all-out speed. Even a middie will only have a few occasions during a typical game where he will be called on to sprint at 100% for 40 or more yards. Maybe less considering how today's coaches have been de-emphasizing the fast break.
In lax, you want players who can carry most of their speed from the first through the fourth quarters and OT if need be versus someone who can redline it a handful of times and then burn out.
LaxRef
11-20-2004, 07:23 AM
LaxRef, I think your advice on distance running that I've read is conservative & sound. The above training routine I question though, b/c I think it has little value for marathon distance. Marathons are about pacing. 200m's have little to do w/ pacing & a lot to do w/ accellerating. Running 200m intervals at a pace where you barely begin to tap your anaerobic threshold seems pointless to me. IMHO, any interval repeat distance below 400m is pointless for marathon training.
The fastest speedwork I talked about is what Daniels calls "repetition work." The main goal is to improve running economy (i.e., to learn to run more efficiently). These intervals are done with full recovery.
Then there are what he calls "intervals," which are done with some--but not full--recovery, designed to improve VO2-max. Tempo runs are designed to improve lactate threshold. Then there are long runs and easy runs and Marathon-pace runs.
The fastest speedwork I talked about is what Daniels calls "repetition work." The main goal is to improve running economy (i.e., to learn to run more efficiently). These intervals are done with full recovery.Ahh, that makes more sense. Sounds the same or similar to form drills. Same concepts, different terminology.
LiquidMercury16
12-04-2004, 03:24 AM
ok i dont know anything about rowing..but i dont see how leg strength helps rowing, i thought rowing was like upper body especially back strength
Rowing is almost all legs. 70% legs, about 20% arms 10% back. You push yourself away with your legs cause you sit on a sliding seat. I'm sure you all have seen the rowing machines in the gym and if you get on one and you don't feel it working your legs which most people don't its because they don't have the right technique.
LiquidMercury16
12-04-2004, 03:26 AM
Fixed-seat rowing--like lifeguard boats, which I've rowed for over 20 years--are indeed almost all back (with some arm and a tiny bit of leg at most). But sliding-seat rowing, like you'll see in the Olympics, is primarily legs.
Have you ever seen one of those rowing machines with the flywheel fans and the sliding seats? Those are what the crew rowers train on in the winter.
Good to know somebody knows something about one of the oldest sports in history.
LaxRef
12-04-2004, 08:20 AM
Rowing is almost all legs. 70% legs, about 20% arms 10% back. You push yourself away with your legs cause you sit on a sliding seat. I'm sure you all have seen the rowing machines in the gym and if you get on one and you don't feel it working your legs which most people don't its because they don't have the right technique.
Eeecch. Don't remind me about the people at the gym on the Erg rowing machines. The ones that make me laugh the most are the ones who are pulling with their arms while they're sliding their butts forward, so the handle isn't moving relative to the machine at all. But they think they're really getting a good workout. (sigh)
allylax03
12-04-2004, 04:09 PM
LaxRef- You have talked about Daniels' Running book and I was wondering if you think it would be beneficial for overall lacrosse. Obviously it is beneficial for running in general but for a sport like lacrosse. Just wondering
LaxRef
12-04-2004, 06:51 PM
LaxRef- You have talked about Daniels' Running book and I was wondering if you think it would be beneficial for overall lacrosse. Obviously it is beneficial for running in general but for a sport like lacrosse. Just wondering
I think if you're trying to improve your overall fitness, that's going to help your lacrosse, and Daniels' book will help with overall fitness. There's a big difference between going out and running 3-5 miles a few times a week and actually having a purpose behind each running workout you do; you'll improve fitness, speed, lactate threshold, and so on a lot more by doing the latter.
However, I can't swear that it's the perfect program for becoming a better lacrosse player.
newguy 101
03-10-2005, 10:11 PM
Guess i'm just genetically strong in legs? I really don't know how I do it.
I guess i am alos i am 16 180 lbs doing reps of 5-10 with 800 lbs havnt tried max yet :P