Belichick fined 500,000 Pat's picks revoked

[MaKiMaKi13]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80251b7e&template=with-video&confirm=true

thoughts?

[ESPN]

pretty weak penalty for cheating your way to three super bowl rings. he should be fired.

[Orange]

Makes me hate the Patriots even more, and they should have been caught long ago.

[MaKiMaKi13]

pretty weak penalty for cheating your way to three super bowl rings. he should be fired.

i concur with that , sad thing is even if they lose the 1st round draft pick they still have one because of the Moss trade

[ESPN]

yeah, and even though i am a jets fan, i can honestly see them getting to the afc chmpionship easily. damn randy moss.

[egrlax10]

i hated the patriots before this happened, and i hate them even more now. bunch of cheaters.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

Makes me hate the Patriots even more, and they should have been caught long ago.

they were warned last season i think.

[-HSKR-]

I'm not trying to cover the Pats or anything, but they still have to play to win games. Just because they know what's coming on certain signals doesn't mean they automatically win the game. And I think the first round pick should be across the board, not just if they make the playoffs. And the win against the Jets should be forfeited.

[The_Gunslinger]

They didn't "cheat their way to 3 super bowl rings". That's taking it a little far. They deserve all the punishment they get, especially Belichick, but I don't think doubt should be cast over their SB wins. They won the games, simple as that.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

They didn't "cheat their way to 3 super bowl rings". That's taking it a little far. They deserve all the punishment they get, especially Belichick, but I don't think doubt should be cast over their SB wins. They won the games, simple as that.

i agree. it's kinda of like when calling a play in lacrosse with a obvious clue as to what formation the offense will be in (such as red 14 for a 1-4-1). it's not to that extent, but similar.

[Eclipse]

What are you guys insane? Cheating his way to 3 super bowls? The Pats consistently had better coaching, better players, and better gameplans. Filming some opposition certainly does not get you 3 Rings and regular division titles. If you ain't cheatin, you ain't trying, and im sorry to say...but cheating is def. something that occurs in the NFL on a regular basis.

When the only goal of an organization and its personal is to win at all costs, you do what it takes.

[faceofflax15]

What's his salary?

[NuKoN]

What's his salary?

I'd wager it's more than enough for $500,000 to not be too much of a blow to him..

[Killer Queen]

what a weak penalty... I think forfiting season, superbowl wins, maybe belichick kicked out of football for ever should have been the penalty....

seriously they know of the weaknesses of the defenses of every team...

Killer Queen

[faceofflax15]

Just checked it, three million a year..

So, 1/6th of his yearly pay check is going to the NFL... For something most Teams do..

[Meade Lacrosse]

FO, are you implying that every team has photographers that steal the other team's signals?


i think it should be their ENTIRE draft. No pick is spared.

[NuKoN]

FO, are you implying that every team has photographers that steal the other team's signals?


i think it should be their ENTIRE draft. No pick is spared.

It's called scouting your opponent, and every team above the JV level does it..

[WinnytheSully]

they recorded about 7 1/2 minutes of tape, I think you guys are going to far in saying he should be fired

[roycegracie47]

It's called scouting your opponent, and every team above the JV level does it..

Scouting is a lot different from spying on a team in the midst of a game.

Personally I've never been a Pats fan (I still maintain Brady fumbled that ball against the Raiders..but that's in the past now) and this furthers it. I think they should lose the 1st pick regardless of how they finish. I don't think a fine really effects the matter, and unless they could prove it happened every game, then forfiets and firings really shouldn't come into the equation. As for suggestions of forfeiting games, only if they could prove it occurred in those specific games ie the SBs. If they can't prove that then it's in all possibilities they did win fair and square and leave it at that, though something like this will cast a shadow.

Look at the 2005/06 Series A match fixing scandal, the took away several of Juventus' scudetti apart from relegation and other forfeits not to mention the fallout for the other teams (though they were more successful on appeal) including many indiciduals being banned from the sport for varying amounts of time for their involvement. That's penalizing a team for cheating. Teams of any sport need to be made examples of to preserve Sportsmanship whether match fixing, splying or allowing players to juice and continue competing. This "if your ain't cheating you ain't trying" mentality is disgusting and if you think it's a necessary reality or a part of the game that needs to be lived with you need to re-evaluate why you compete. Is it to win. Yes. Is it to win under the pretence of fair play and beat your opponent soundly within the rules set for the game, yes. If you think it means to win no matter the cost and cheat until you get caught then apologize. It's not.

[cjm3113]

Scouting is a lot different from spying on a team in the midst of a game.

Personally I've never been a Pats fan (I still maintain Brady fumbled that ball against the Raiders..but that's in the past now) and this furthers it. I think they should lose the 1st pick regardless of how they finish. I don't think a fine really effects the matter, and unless they could prove it happened every game, then forfiets and firings really shouldn't come into the equation. As for suggestions of forfeiting games, only if they could prove it occurred in those specific games ie the SBs. If they can't prove that then it's in all possibilities they did win fair and square and leave it at that, though something like this will cast a shadow.

Look at the 2005/06 Series A match fixing scandal, the took away several of Juventus' scudetti apart from relegation and other forfeits not to mention the fallout for the other teams (though they were more successful on appeal) including many indiciduals being banned from the sport for varying amounts of time for their involvement. That's penalizing a team for cheating. Teams of any sport need to be made examples of to preserve Sportsmanship whether match fixing, splying or allowing players to juice and continue competing. This "if your ain't cheating you ain't trying" mentality is disgusting and if you think it's a necessary reality or a part of the game that needs to be lived with you need to re-evaluate why you compete. Is it to win. Yes. Is it to win under the pretence of fair play and beat your opponent soundly within the rules set for the game, yes. If you think it means to win no matter the cost and cheat until you get caught then apologize. It's not.

They didn't view the tape during the game. They used it for "scouting purpose" they would review it after the game for the next time they played, or so was their story.

[WSlax9]

Pats are all bunch of cheaters and they should forfeit the Jets game and lost all their draft picks. Who knows how long they've been doing this. They probably did this during their dynasty as well.

[atm 1892]

What are you guys insane? Cheating his way to 3 super bowls? The Pats consistently had better coaching, better players, and better gameplans. Filming some opposition certainly does not get you 3 Rings and regular division titles. If you ain't cheatin, you ain't trying, and im sorry to say...but cheating is def. something that occurs in the NFL on a regular basis.

When the only goal of an organization and its personal is to win at all costs, you do what it takes.

Oh so that makes it perfectly ok? That's a pretty weak excuse.

Just checked it, three million a year..

So, 1/6th of his yearly pay check is going to the NFL... For something most Teams do..

I'd like to see some proof that most teams do this.

[LaxDman62]

Was it proved that the patriots were envolved in this?

I sucks because I love the Pats. Great team. I very much doubt they did it before if they did at all?

Why would they need to that anyways? Come on its the Jets!

[laxmj1992]

I think that the penalty the Patriots gotten should have been 1/5 of what they deserve. Belicheck should be fired, they should forefeit the Jets game, and not be allowed to make the playoffs.

[thepalehorse]

i hated the patriots before this happened, and i hate them even more now. bunch of cheaters.

amen to that

[GoBucks]

I definitely agree with the penalty. Guys that are talking about forfeiting Super Bowl wins, don't be ridiculous. There's no way to prove that the Pats were spying on anyone besides the Packers last season and the Jets. I find this situation disturbing, but there are few things the NFL can do about the past, unless they launch a full-scale investigation. And from watching the highlights of the Pats-Jets game, they didn't need to spy at all.

Let's look at that 51 yard TD pass from Brady to Moss. The only way the Pats could use the spyware was to adjust their play package, liking moving a tight end over. But how about during the play? Did spying lead to the touchdown? No, they scored the touchdown because Brady and Moss are 2 of the best players in the NFL (well, when Moss wants to be), and the Pats also have one of the best O-lines in the NFL.

I think it was very unneccessary to spy on other teams, and I think the punishment fits the crime. Let's hope it doesn't happen again.

[laxgthreeone]

Was it proved that the patriots were envolved in this?

I sucks because I love the Pats. Great team. I very much doubt they did it before if they did at all?

Why would they need to that anyways? Come on its the Jets!

It's not " The Jets" It's the J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!

But seriously, cheating is cheating .. a lot of teams probaly do this. But they haven't gotten caught when they do if they do, then they will be punished as well.

In know way should other teams doing it be an exscuse. It is not only cheating the your team, its cheating the league.

[ML_LAX09]

Give the EAGLES the Rings!

[hvlacrosse311]

i think they should forfeit their season, and a half a million for a team as big at the Pats is nothing. I think Bilichick should be fired

[ML_LAX09]

i think they should forfeit their season, and a half a million for a team as big at the Pats is nothing. I think Bilichick should be fired


The team only get's fined $250,000. It's Bilicheck that gets fined the $500,000.

[laxkid891]

i hated the patriots before this happened, and i hate them even more now. bunch of cheaters.
ditto, i didnt like them to begin with, now im just disgusted with them:loser:

[-HSKR-]

Was it proved that the patriots were envolved in this?

I sucks because I love the Pats. Great team. I very much doubt they did it before if they did at all?

Why would they need to that anyways? Come on its the Jets!

There is no question they did it. It's been reported that they've done it before, like last year against Green Bay. This is just the first time they have caught someone in the act of filming. And Belichick seemed way to mild and didn't deny it at all. He avoided all the questions about it so obviously something was going on.

[hvlacrosse311]

The team only get's fined $250,000. It's Bilicheck that gets fined the $500,000.

still thats nothing.

[-HSKR-]

The penalty was not harsh enough in my opinion. They have more than enough money to make up $250,000 as does Belichick. Draft picks aren't really going to make a difference to them because they already have a lot of good players and only lose a first rounder if they make the playoffs (which is likely to happen). Look at Wade Wilson, a Dallas assistant coach, who bought HGH to use for himself. He was suspended five games and fined $100,000 just for owning HGH, not giving it to his players. Belichick should definitely be suspended for cheating when another coach was suspended for buying a banned substance.

[The_Gunslinger]

I'd wager it's more than enough for $500,000 to not be too much of a blow to him..

Trust me bro, $500,000 is a LOT of money for a coach.

[CSlax06]

$500k is alot to anyone.

[3rdPersonPlural]

I always figured that the reason that defensive instructions were sent in in code was because everyone assumed that since this communication was 'in the open', code was the only way to ensure privacy.

Videotaping another team's code is as useful as saving your 12 year old's AIM chatter. You still don't know what it means.

How is videotaping an impenetrable code cheating? Is watching the scrambled static that HBO gives you (if you don't subscribe) somehow stealing their programming? If you TIVO it, is that somehow worse?

I don't think so.

[WAXmyLAX]

I would hazard that no code is absolutely impenetrable. If you tape the signals, then see what they do on the field, it seems it would be a piece of cake, relatively speaking, to decipher the code.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Perhaps. Which is why the signals change game to game.

Everyone assumes that their signals have been decoded after the game.

[spenny]

record signals during quarter, give tape to people to match signals to poloroids of plays (which are taken by both teams of the beginning and during each play) at the end of the quarter. this could be done very quickly since you arent recording the entire game, just about a minute of each play before the play starts.
i'm confident that you could do it in 15 minutes or less

what you get is the "king of the halftime adjustment"

pats have lost my respect. brady, too. its easy to look like joe montana if you know what coverage you are throwing into

[3rdPersonPlural]

pats have lost my respect. brady, too. its easy to look like joe montana if you know what coverage you are throwing into

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that this is a Patriots exclusive. I suspect that this has been standard operating practice leaguewide since the video camera got small enough to be unobtrusive in the stands. The Patriots may well have taken this practice a step further than anyone else or been more blatant about it, but code making/code breaking is a part of football. This is why even college teams have 3 back up QB's signalling simultaneously. No one would do that unless they knew that the other side had their best minds concentrating on deciphering that code.

[spenny]

the pats have been busted 3x for it. i havent heard any other team mentioned as having being caught doing it. i'm sure other teams are pushing the envelope, but arent going as far as the pats did.

[faceofflax15]

the pats have been busted 3x for it. i havent heard any other team mentioned as having being caught doing it. i'm sure other teams are pushing the envelope, but arent going as far as the pats did.

Well obviously after they got caught the first time, the NFL is going to keep a special eye on the Pats looking for them to do it.. so, it would be easier for them to get caught.

[Orange]

Or when they realize that one team gets caught they'd start looking into seeing if other teams are doing it, but no word of any other team yet.

[GoBucks]

Almost every football team in the NFL does this, the only thing is the others haven't been caught. The only reason why the penalty is this harsh is because this is a repeated offense. Roger Goodell told the Pats to stop spying way back in the offseason, and the punishment is more for disobeying his orders than anything else.

[RgLax]

this is a light penalty... the mclaren team got fined 10 MILLION for cheating and the pats get fined 750k total? And you know belicheck isnt paying that fine, Kraft is.
Also i think that the real punishment should have simply to take away the win. Picks arent going to hurt them, kraft has millons of dollars but taking away the win is the most fair punishment

[ShermanLax607]

I think that this is completely wrong. The penalty given was not at all harsh enough. 500,000$ to anyone in professional sports, coach, team, or player is absolutely nothing.
This really puts into question everything that they have done. People say that they have superior playing, coaching, and gameplans. Well actually all of this could be a direct result of knowing WHAT THEY PLAY IS GOING TO BE. They players are in the right spots, the gameplan is perfect because they know what is coming, and the coaches look like geniuses for calling a play based off of the other team's play. Its all directly correlated.
If I were they league I would've taken much more action. Can I hear a forfeit anyone? This is just rediculous,

I know im prolly gonna get ridiculed for this, but so be it, that's just my opinion.

[cavgoalie7]

did anyone see when they showed the actual video on fox nfl sunday? It showed the cameraman watching 4 jets coaches showing signals, then looking at the scoreboard to see the down and yardline. I dont know how they got the video though.

[RgLax]

Fine then, as long as you take away every win that the Chargers got due to Merriman using steroids.

That is completely different. There are at least 10 other guys contriuteing to every play. However, when the coach is ordering the cheating so that they know what defense/play is going to be coming against them, that defeats the whoel purpose of the game. Look at all the players who take steriods and are still lousy. Also Merriman got it from a supplement that he took without the knowledge that it had steriods in it and is suing the company.

[cjm3113]

That is completely different. There are at least 10 other guys contriuteing to every play. However, when the coach is ordering the cheating so that they know what defense/play is going to be coming against them, that defeats the whoel purpose of the game. Look at all the players who take steriods and are still lousy. Also Merriman got it from a supplement that he took without the knowledge that it had steriods in it and is suing the company.

Do you guys not pay attention? The tape wasn't even viewed until after the game.

[RgLax]

i realize that, im not talking about the current, game but rather when the jets play the patriots again, they will or would have known what defense was going to be called against them.

[Warrior_laxman-]

the pats bring in 100 milon to thier organistion a year and they get fine 250k i think theres somthing wrong with the picks and they did cheat there way into they wern't looking at regular game flim they looked the simbals are for the defense so they knew wat they were calling every play so if it was a blitz they would change there play to they other teams play weakness... i think he should get sued a good 10 to 20 million since his net worth is over 200 million and i also think the owner should get sued the same he is worth over 1.1 billion

[egrlax10]

Also Merriman got it from a supplement that he took without the knowledge that it had steriods in it and is suing the company.

do you honestly believe that? im pretty sure that excuse has been used by every athlete thats been caught with steroids.

[HdGLaxWarrior]

cheating bowl on sunday night football right now.

[navylax161]

ive said it once ill say it again: EVERYONE IN THE NFL CHEATS! im not saying it makes it ok but it doesnt mean that they "unfairly" won three superbowls. everyone they beat probably had some competitive advantage when they played the pats. i dont like it, but its wat the nfl's come to. as for the fine, if you do the math, the pats basically trade deion branch and 250,000 dollars (nothing for an nfl team) for randy moss and moved up a few spots in the first round, pending the pats have a better record than the 49ers this year. i really dont care about bill's fine. it's not like the team is actually taking a financial hit.

[abomb]

They should fine him for those sleeveless sweatshirts he wears.

[SullyLax]

I present you with this:
http://coloyan.com/society/s091607
Especially the last 2 pictures which clearly show recording with the Pat's D on the field.
Discuss.

[WinnytheSully]

They should fine him for those sleeveless sweatshirts he wears.
Whatever works for him is cool with me. The most ironic thing is the NFL limits how many games coaches can wear a suit, but no limit is made to how many times he can wear a hoodie.

[3rdPersonPlural]

Especially the last 2 pictures which clearly show recording with the Pat's D on the field.


Discuss.


I feel vindicated. I predicted that this decoding signals thing was not a notion exclusive to the Pats. Intuitively useful practices never are.

There are ball caps with sophisticated optical capture devices that offer enough zoom capability for a 'fan' to sit high enough in a stadium for an unobstructed view of the sidelines, and he can capture away.

[MaKiMaKi13]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-jetsfan-patriotslawsuit&prov=ap&type=lgns
Jet's Fan Wants to Sue Pats for more then 184 Mil