Your hypothetical 2006 Australian Team

[bluedevil49]

Griffo, I get what you are saying. Australia was his number 2 team to play for, where as say for Mango (also a left handed attackman that is now an alternate) Australia is his number one choice. Them's the rules though.

As for the It's not a young defence, but what has age got to do with it? Being a certain age isn't a criteria for playing good lacrosse. Late 20's /early 30's is probably the ideal age for long sticks.

They are the best longsticks that tried out for the team and met all of the requirements. Enough said.

So who is going over to watch this team play in London?

[bluedevil49]

As it stands, there is no criteria or regulations that I know of, either in Australia or in the US, that includes/excludes certain players from doing this. Should there be? What do you think?
Under ILF rules I believe that you cannot play for 2 different countries in consecutive championships.

As for Americans playing for Australian teams, Mundorf is not the first. One of the goalies that played in the 2003 indoor team was an American. Having said that though, he has been playing here for 15-20 years and has definately supported Australian lacrosse

[mrg16]

It concerns me too regarding multiple try outs. I had heard cases in 1996 of U/19 Iroqoius players trying out for Canada or the US first, but that is a whole different case regarding "Nationality". I was also posed with the possibility of playing for Wales in 2002, but Green & Gold is in my blood I'm afraid.

Heres another question....does Mundorf's selection now prevent him from ever playing for the US in the future, or does he have to "defect" (like when Tatiana Grigorieva came to Aus :agree: )?

Having said all of this....Cannon said he was a good bloke and could drink like an Aussie. I'm sure he will fit right in

[bluedevil49]

Jake Henhawk tried out for the Iroquois team in 2003, got cut and ended up being the #2 goalie to Dwight Maetche. (Imagine that, your second choice is team USA)

[mrg16]

Great discussion fellas....its good to see the International forum alive and kicking!

I'll definitely be in London...it will be my 5th consecutive Worlds!

[Minotaur]

Great discussion gentlemen.

My best friend's brother, (and my mate), Klay Johnson, played and coached in Adelaide and Perth for a number of years....I'm sure some of you had the pleasure of his friendship and lacrosse guidance. He was someone who dedicated his time and profound knowledge to lacrosse in Australia, before his tragic death in September, 2001. (I miss you brother). My point is that we all know who has contributed to the sport of lacrosse in Australia, and who are mere journeyman looking for an opportunity to play international lacrosse. So the ALC definitley have the ability and opportunity to designate some sort of "benchmark" for players wishing to try out for the national team. Speaking of the US embassy, when naturalizing one's children for dual pasports, they stipulate that the parent of US citizenship must have lived in the states for no less than 5 years. And you have to prove it with paperwork, letters, school transcripts, awards, etc.

And you're right...for some indivduals, age is not a factor. Klay Johnson was certainly a case in point! He seemed as strong and as agile at 41 years as he did at 28yrs.

Won't be in Canada for this one. Already had our family lacrosse holidays watching the NCAA championships in Philadelphia back in May. London should be a great time!

[mrg16]

Klay Johnson....his shot may not have been as fast when he reached his late 30's but he still made me look stupid as a 16 year old D1 rookie in the cage...then he would tell me what I had done wrong because he felt bad about humiliating me (and he was concerned more about the development of the game than his own stats).....fantastic player, coach and guy.

Minotaur it sounds like you or some of your family have American heritage?

[Minotaur]

Klay Johnson....his shot may not have been as fast when he reached his late 30's but he still made me look stupid as a 16 year old D1 rookie in the cage...then he would tell me what I had done wrong because he felt bad about humiliating me (and he was concerned more about the development of the game than his own stats).....fantastic player, coach and guy.

Minotaur it sounds like you or some of your family have American heritage?
Hey, Klay has made all of us look silly at one time or another. But he would always be the first to offer his hand to help you up.

Yes, brother, I am originally from the states. Married an Aussie(best women in the world) and have lived here for the past 10 years. Played with Klay's brother, Scott, at Ithaca College and had a blast. Torn between 2 countries. Love them both. Grew up playing the US version of lacrosse which equals=CONTROL, and have grown to love the Aussie run and gun game=FUN.

Peace

[aussielax]

Heres another question....does Mundorf's selection now prevent him from ever playing for the US in the future, or does he have to "defect" (like when Tatiana Grigorieva came to Aus :agree: )?


No i don't think it does, I think your are able to change your nationmal team every 4 years. I remember in 02 there was a guy that played for New Zeland and he had also played for Wales in 98.

[lukeoz]

Just trying to promote a discussion.....I guess what I'm hearing is a bit of anger that he had a try-out with the US team before trying out for the Australian team. The "second choice" issue hit a raw nerve. To be honest, I feel concerned about the precedent that is being set. Do we have "journeymen / journeywomen" lacrosse players trying out for a number of national teams just because they hold a few passports? As it stands, there is no criteria or regulations that I know of, either in Australia or in the US, that includes/excludes certain players from doing this. Should there be? What do you think?

Who here plays by the rules?? I do, and as it stands he is eligible to play for Australia. Like it or not, he is part of the 2006 Sharks team. Get over it and start supporting OUR team.

All right fellas, this is a good discussion. Minotaur, you forgot to add Phar Lap to the list of ambiguous Australians! Can I clear up the fact that I don't hold a personal grudge against Brendan Mundorf, I have never met him and I am sure he is a great guy, who can drink loads (that would be the Australian part of him I'm sure - start another discussion!!). It's not about the person. My point is that until the previous weekend he had made in no way any contribution to Australian lacrosse. The passport and parentage is irrelevant. The concept of the world games is being devalued as a result of pseudo-national teams. I was shocked when I read an article on the English lacrosse site this morning, where they are contacting up to 20 overseas players for their squad! click for article (http://www.englishlacrosse.co.uk/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,5106-163779-19728-34648-212193-14388-5158-layout133-180996-news-item,00.html)
Is this truly the English national team, or an ELA exhibition team? What good does having a team loaded with foreigners do for the growth and development of lacrosse in England?

bluedevil49, (how are you doing by the way?) who plays by the rules indeed! It doesn't mean we have to resort to include overseas-based players. We should play only the best we have. If we can't beat the likes of the USA or Canada, then we should look to develop and improve the talent we have at home, not look abroad to fill our holes. A victory over these teams with overseas help would to me be somewhat of a hollow victory. Lacrosse has been played in Australia and England for over 130 years, it is well established. It's up to the administrations to ensure that we have the teams to compete against the best. England's loss to Japan last time should have been a wake-up call to act on that, not to recruit second-generation Americans to make sure they beat them next time.

I think that having foreigners in a team is excusable for developing nations, but certainly not for blue division teams. I can't say for sure but I doubt that Japan have foreign-based players in their team. They are in the blue division, and the game has been there less than 20 years. Countries like Ireland and Italy can have teams of foreigners until the local setup has enough local players to field a truly national team. So what if they might lose 50-nil? Every subsequent game would be a measure of their progress. Japan has been there. Now look at them. If you were a lacrosse newcomer in Ireland or Italy, what hope would you place on one day playing for the national team, when you find that a foreigner whose grandmother was born there went through an established system? Who is more deserving of a spot on their national team? The better player, or the true product of their domestic programme?

I know that there are many USA-based players in the team. In this case, they were among the best Aussies who were given the opportunity to play at a higher level, and we are all the better for it. Our women's team probably wouldn't have won the world cup this year without the American experience of some of our key players. But they are still products of the Australian system, and were selected to play for American college / professional teams based on their talent as Australian lacrosse players.

So what should qualify an overseas-born and bred player to play for Australia? Here are some suggestions.
1. Be a member of an Australian lacrosse club and play Australian lacrosse for at least a set amount of time (whether 1, 2 or more years). This would be their involvement in and contribution to Australian lacrosse. Even so, I would have reservations for those who are already top-class players as they didn't go through their development in Australia.
2. In terms of parentage, if the player's link to Australia was a lacrosse player, I could possibly see how this introduced the prospective representative to have played lacrosse in the first place. I am not sure if Brendan's dad played lacrosse back in Oz, but if he had played in his time, I could see that as a reason. But from what I can gather it's probably because he grew up in the Baltimore area.

The national team has lost some of its meaning. I know lacrosse isn't the only sport. Look at rugby union, pretty much all the top countries have overseas reps (we have Saffas, NZ have islanders, etc etc), even cricket. It doesn't mean it's right. I think though for those sports they do require time to qualify, and are required to play in their domestic competitions.

Don't doubt that I want Australia to win the World Championships next year, but I would certainly feel a lot better about it if it were a genuine Aussie team.

[lukeoz]

id rather have a truly aussie player playing but its not as if the coaches went looking to fill a team of american australians and its at least its just the one player.

as it is there's still one aussie player out, one american player in, and i am sure that the difference in quality between the last aussie player selected for the squad and the first one not selected is not so great as to warrant an overseas player, like i said before if it were me that was cut i would be absolutely gutted

[bluedevil49]

as it is there's still one aussie player out, one american player in, and i am sure that the difference in quality between the last aussie player selected for the squad and the first one not selected is not so great as to warrant an overseas player, like i said before if it were me that was cut i would be absolutely gutted
I would be interested to hear Mark Mangan's opinion on this. He is after all the left handed attackmen that is an alternate.

Luke, you have some pretty good points about eligibility. Especially the underlying feeling that they give something back to lacrosse in australia.
Who knows, maybe Mundorf will decide to come out here and play after he finishes college. I know he liked the guys at the camp and given that he wants to see more of the country it's a very real possibility.

As for player eligibility, click this link (http://www.intlaxfed.org/pdf/ILF%20Eligibility%20Criteria%202005.pdf) to the ILF page

[UKLaxFan]

The passport and parentage is irrelevant. The concept of the world games is being devalued as a result of pseudo-national teams. I was shocked when I read an article on the English lacrosse site this morning, where they are contacting up to 20 overseas players for their squad! ELA Article (http://www.englishlacrosse.co.uk/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,5106-163779-19728-34648-212193-14388-5158-layout133-180996-news-item,00.html)
Is this truly the English national team, or an ELA exhibition team? What good does having a team loaded with foreigners do for the growth and development of lacrosse in England?

The article you referred to on the ELA site is misleading, and there is a double standard here, as to what an Overseas Player is, some of those 20 players mentioned are English kids who have gone to College in the USA. For example Wesley College (http://athletics.wesley.edu/mlacrosse.html). Australia has benefited in Men's & Women's lacrosse for players going to play for a US College. Are you suggesting that a kid has to make a decision at 18 if he wants to play overseas then he can't play for his Country?

Secondly : Passports & Parentage are irrelevent... How else do you define Nationality? If the Government recognizes them as a citizen why should lacrosse have a stricter code?

The Vegimite Test for Aussies or the 10 pints of Bitter, Curry & a Fight Test to prove your English?

Some people will always miss out on selection, but if you were the Coach wouldn't you wnt the strongest team possible under rules of eligibility.

UKLF

[lukeoz]

I would be interested to hear Mark Mangan's opinion on this. He is after all the left handed attackmen that is an alternate.

Luke, you have some pretty good points about eligibility. Especially the underlying feeling that they give something back to lacrosse in australia.
Who knows, maybe Mundorf will decide to come out here and play after he finishes college. I know he liked the guys at the camp and given that he wants to see more of the country it's a very real possibility.

As for player eligibility, click this link (http://www.intlaxfed.org/pdf/ILF%20Eligibility%20Criteria%202005.pdf) to the ILF page


If he comes out to Oz after he finishes college, all well and good (he can come and play for Woodville!). But only after then should he be considered. What are the eligibility rules for representing a state team? I am not sure but don't you have to have played a full season in that state before you can represent them? Shouldn't that be the absolute minimum requirement before representing Australia?

FYI I qualify for the Italian team, and would qualify for a Slovenian team should they participate (it has been introduced to the country in the last couple of years). But if I wanted to play for either of these teams, I should feel obligated to contribute to the development of the game there, whether to play in a local competition or tournament, or coach or hold clinics. I would imagine that there are many players in the USA, Canada and Australia who would qualify for European national teams, including some that would qualify for more than one! I can think of at least six Woodville players that would qualify for other nations under ILF criteria. If you go back far enough anyone could qualify for another team, except the Iroquois, or so you would think, but you have provided examples of them choosing the USA or Canada as a backup! So where do you draw the line? According to the ILF, at the step-grandparent (though adoptive grandparent is okay)! I would also now qualify for the England team, having been resident here for over two years now. That makes me eligible to play for four lacrosse nations!! I should sell myself to the highest bidder (though I won't hold out much hope!)

Countries like England and Australia shouldn't exploit this rule. Even other smaller countries should push their own home-grown talent and accept that they won't finish as high up on the table than they would like, for the good of their domestic game. I feel this is the only way to improve international competition for the long term.

[lukeoz]

In principle LukeOz i understand you. But as long as England, Ireland, Germany, Italy etc are employing this tactic (and in the english case its bordering on sad with the amount of blatant advertising to get yanks on their team) i think we would be foolhardy to not employ it ourselves.

Brendan is a real nice guy and excellent player(and he can drink like an Aussie!) and I think that once he has the green and gold it does not matter!

Ive had a discussion going on lax power about this in regard to the irish team.

My personal pref would be that nations in the blue div at least should have a 3 non-resident player limit.

I say if you have less than 23 resident players who have made themselves available for the national team, then the number of non-resident players should be zero. If the 23rd player is totally rubbish, surely the 1st player isn't a wizard. At least it's a genuine team and they will be pooled with teams of similar calibre anyway. I'm sure finishing 16th rather than 10th is not going to cut funding for the sport in the country.

I'd be interested to know how things work for the Welsh and Scottish national teams, seeing that they share their passport with England as part of the UK (maybe even Northern Ireland too)?

[Warriors26]

FYI Warren Brown was not cut in July...he pulled out of his own accord sometime last summer.

Much like Leigh Perham I believe.


even worse that shows no commitment to the team why do they get the right over an aaron sargent or any other player that has commited them selves to the cause for the whole time

[ALL Fan]

I think Mundorf could be the edge Australia needs to get into the gold medal game. Remember Canada has beaten Australia a couple of times by only the one goal to get into the final. I understand that Mundorf came highly recommended by one of the (past) world's best players in Brooks Sweet who commented we would be mad not to pick him in the team. Australia should have selected more of the US based Australian players who are coached and play at a higher standard and can match it with the US Team. It is unfortunate the team cannot play as a unit for a couple of months to really gel as a team. Good luck guys. I'm looking forward to the games in London and seeing the Aussie team improve their standing on the world lacrosse stage.

[lacrosselover]

I think Mundorf could be the edge Australia needs to get into the gold medal game. Remember Canada has beaten Australia a couple of times by only the one goal to get into the final. I understand that Mundorf came highly recommended by one of the (past) world's best players in Brooks Sweet who commented we would be mad not to pick him in the team. Australia should have selected more of the US based Australian players who are coached and play at a higher standard and can match it with the US Team. It is unfortunate the team cannot play as a unit for a couple of months to really gel as a team. Good luck guys. I'm looking forward to the games in London and seeing the Aussie team improve their standing on the world lacrosse stage.

If you saw the camp in Adelaide you would be extremely suprised at the standard of US lacrosse compared to here. Some of the 'decorated' college players from Adelphi could barely get a throw at camp...

Its a fantastic team and im have no doubt that after 8 months of hard preperation, we can take it up to any other country including the US..

[ALL Fan]

For those that don't know yet, the 2005 highlights of the Australain Lacrosse League will be televised on 10 December on CNBC/Foxtel in most Asian countries, New Zealand and Australia. Check the Foxtel/CNBC Guides for the time.

[Minotaur]

If you saw the camp in Adelaide you would be extremely suprised at the standard of US lacrosse compared to here. Some of the 'decorated' college players from Adelphi could barely get a throw at camp...

Its a fantastic team and im have no doubt that after 8 months of hard preperation, we can take it up to any other country including the US..
My god fellas....sounds like you're writing your PHD disertations on cultural identity! Keep it up! For all those feminists who dismiss Australian males as "adolescent"...let them feast there eyes on this discussion!

I think lacrosselover has hit the nail on the head....Preperation. Who and when are the Aussie team going to play to prepare for the upcoming world games? The US team has already gone through an entire autumn of playing division 1 fall tournaments, Hopkins, Towson, Georgetown, Cornell, Virginia. They will be playing the MLL allstars during the MLL season in June 2006, just before the world cup. I don't think it will be enough for the Sharks to play depleted State League teams. Does anyone know if they are playing a series of prep games before they get to London?

[lukeoz]

I think Mundorf could be the edge Australia needs to get into the gold medal game. Remember Canada has beaten Australia a couple of times by only the one goal to get into the final. I understand that Mundorf came highly recommended by one of the (past) world's best players in Brooks Sweet who commented we would be mad not to pick him in the team. Australia should have selected more of the US based Australian players who are coached and play at a higher standard and can match it with the US Team. It is unfortunate the team cannot play as a unit for a couple of months to really gel as a team. Good luck guys. I'm looking forward to the games in London and seeing the Aussie team improve their standing on the world lacrosse stage.

I'm not doubting that he's a great player, and would be good enough to get in the Australian team. But he isn't an Aussie, except through a technicality. That shouldn't be reason enough to select him. What the Aussie team has been great at in past world championships is lifting its game to give the USA and Canada a run for its money. We have the players here with the talent and the dedication to take themselves and the national team as a whole to the next level, without outside help. We can certainly beat Canada with our own players (I think we only lost by one goal in the semi final last time), and I should think it would feel more rewarding to do it with home-grown talent.

Preparation is definitely the key, and it would be crucial for us to have some good hitouts against quality opposition in the run-in to July next year. I admire the players for the sacrifices they make to get themselves in the condition they get to and the standard to which they raise themselves. They definitely do us proud.

[Minotaur]

I'm not doubting that he's a great player, and would be good enough to get in the Australian team. But he isn't an Aussie, except through a technicality. That shouldn't be reason enough to select him. What the Aussie team has been great at in past world championships is lifting its game to give the USA and Canada a run for its money. We have the players here with the talent and the dedication to take themselves and the national team as a whole to the next level, without outside help. We can certainly beat Canada with our own players (I think we only lost by one goal in the semi final last time), and I should think it would feel more rewarding to do it with home-grown talent.

Preparation is definitely the key, and it would be crucial for us to have some good hitouts against quality opposition in the run-in to July next year. I admire the players for the sacrifices they make to get themselves in the condition they get to and the standard to which they raise themselves. They definitely do us proud.
amen, brother. This team could be the first step in eventually taking the world cup back to OZ.

[lukeoz]

I think it could definitely happen one day. This year we had three Australians in arguably the strongest lacrosse competition in the world, the MLL. Plus others that play in the NLL. If our best talent continue to get the opportunity to play college and then professional lacrosse in the US, we may one day have enough people who have played lacrosse at the highest standard day-in, day-out, to present the best chance possible of getting the world cup. It's not necessarily about how many play lax in the country, it's the quality of the final 23, and particularly the ten that are on the field at any one time. Look at our women who won the world cup this year. I think Australia has a lot fewer players than the USA, England, Japan, maybe other countries too, but still took the trophy. Our second team would probably be slaughtered by the US's second team. But we had enough players who played at the elite level (and had the natural talent) to win the world cup.

[lacrosselover]

we are playing 3 games in January against Haverford College (D3 team) which will be good fun for them but we will smash them, and we are spending 2 weeks in the USA before we go up to Canada, playing games in San Francisco and Baltimore....

[lacrosselover]

Does anyone have any opinions about the team selection?

people who should have got in? people who did but shouldnt have?

[cannon]

we are playing 3 games in January against Haverford College (D3 team) which will be good fun for them but we will smash them, and we are spending 2 weeks in the USA before we go up to Canada, playing games in San Francisco and Baltimore....

The team is staying at Stanford University in on the West Coast and then going to the East to stay at Towson University. Its hard in June/July to get college teams to play as college kids are off on summer break. Personally I think the ideal thing would be to play one of the West Coast MLL expansion teams while on the west and not some sh!tbox western college. But knowing Pro teams it would be hard to get that to happen.

Indeed this thread is possibly the most cerebral thing that I have seen on any lacrosse board. Especially good to see some new names contributing so passionately.

Its a shame a better team isnt coming out here in January. I recall a guy who played at melbourne uni from haverford some years ago and considered a good player there but really wasn't good at all. But hopefully they are at least well drilled and fit so we can try a few things.

Does anyone have any opinions about the team selection?

people who should have got in? people who did but shouldnt have?

personally the only real contentious selections (not cultural identity) for me are Perham, W Brown and Delfs...mainly because none of them were in the squad the whole way and/or actually set foot on a field. Im not saying they arent good enough but more about perseverence and performance. guys i think were roughly done by: Brad Ross, fit as they come and played very well. Matt Price, excellent lefty perhaps missed due to the two stiglich boys. Juleff, has the hardest shot iver ever seen or felt, bit limited in his moves though. Glenn Morley, had a kick *** weekend, best passing skills on a longy in the country. Casagrande, great GB man. DM, very hard to get past.

but in the end there ony 23 and the coaches have a plan and had to pick the best team for that plan. lets hope they have.

[lukeoz]

Dennis Juleff seems to be a bit of an enigma. From what I know, he comes from Queensland originally. Is that where he picked up a stick for the first time? How old would he have been when he started? I know he played for West Torrens in SA for a couple of seasons. Then he was at Ithaca College and played for Rochester teams in the NLL and MLL? For someone from a non-traditional lacrosse area his development seems to be phenomenal. If anyone would be deserving of an Aussie spot based on the opportunities given to him it would have been him. Has he played elsewhere?

[Dub Lax]

Well, I just had a long post that dissapeared for some reason. Anyway, I've enjoyed reading this discussion, as an American-Irish dual citizen that is being considered for the Irish Lacrosse Team. I moved to Dublin and have been helping trying to develop the sport here, so I find it interesting to see the way you all feel about your team.

As far as Haverford College is concerned, I played there for two years and the program completely turned around in 2002 when Mike Murphy took over as coach. Check out www.lax.com to see the difference. So the attackman from there a few years ago probably wouldn't be playing at Haverford today. The team will be very disciplined and in great shape. I can't say that they will beat the Aussie team, but I think it'll be a great opportunity for the Aussies to get a taste of playing together as a team against pretty good competition. Haverford certainly will be better than any college club teams you would play on the West Coast. But ultimately the more games these National Teams play with each other, the better, as thats how teams gel.

There may be some decent post-college club teams out west, as a lot of big-time players have re-located west after college, but that pool may be depleted since the MLL expansion. I think someone should look into the possibility of playing one of the new MLL expansion teams, as it would give them a great opportunity to get fans in the stadium, and you guys a great prep game. Maybe a weekend trip, play in Chicago on Friday and then Denver on Saturday? Could probably get both of those teams to chip some money in for it, and you may even be able to get sponsorship from an airline to cover it. Just something to consider.

Also, I was wondering if anyone had heard about a change in the ILF rules regarding alternates? That teams are only allowed to travel with 23 players, no alternates? The 23 are the only ones eligible to play for that country during the World Games is what I heard from somewhere, but I haven't been able to find anywhere online to verify or refute it.

[lacrosselover]

Juleff picked it up by watching video's....so pretty talented....but he wasnt much chop at camp and wasnt picked....

Yeah teams can only travel with 23 players, no alternates will be taken...

Brad Ross was very stiff, I guess in the end they went for size...although he is prob one of the toughest players I have ever seen...

[bluedevil49]

Also, I was wondering if anyone had heard about a change in the ILF rules regarding alternates? That teams are only allowed to travel with 23 players, no alternates? The 23 are the only ones eligible to play for that country during the World Games is what I heard from somewhere, but I haven't been able to find anywhere online to verify or refute it.
Click here for link to ILF by-law (http://www.intlaxfed.org/pdf/2003-January-3-ILF-Append-1.pdf)
Point 13.3 says "The final squad of twenty three (23) players must be notified to the Championship Committee Secretary by 9.00 am on the day preceding the first game of the Championship. No change may then take place to that squad."
These by-laws came into effect as of January 2003.

So right up until the day before the games start the team can still change.

[cannon]

As far as Haverford College is concerned, I played there for two years and the program completely turned around in 2002 when Mike Murphy took over as coach. Check out www.lax.com to see the difference. So the attackman from there a few years ago probably wouldn't be playing at Haverford today. The team will be very disciplined and in great shape. I can't say that they will beat the Aussie team, but I think it'll be a great opportunity for the Aussies to get a taste of playing together as a team against pretty good competition. Haverford certainly will be better than any college club teams you would play on the West Coast. But ultimately the more games these National Teams play with each other, the better, as thats how teams gel.

Thats good to hear. The low-down is that the aussie team will need a challenge. Prior to the 2002 games they played against a USA west team and beat them like 26-1 or something and played some other non challenging games which showed when the heat was on in Perth. Certainly any MLL team would be that challenge.

Dub lax, the 2002 'Irish' team was as Irish as a New York subway. What will it look like this time around?

[aussielax]

As far as Haverford College is concerned, I played there for two years and the program completely turned around in 2002 when Mike Murphy took over as coach. Check out www.lax.com to see the difference. So the attackman from there a few years ago probably wouldn't be playing at Haverford today. The team will be very disciplined and in great shape. I can't say that they will beat the Aussie team, but I think it'll be a great opportunity for the Aussies to get a taste of playing together as a team against pretty good competition. Haverford certainly will be better than any college club teams you would play on the West Coast. But ultimately the more games these National Teams play with each other, the better, as thats how teams gel.


We had a guy from Haverford come out and play for camberwell in 2001, His name was Ryan Taggart and he was pretty damm good, He went back to the US and went to cornell and he said he could have walked onto the team there but he wasn't allowed to because he had used up his 4 years of eligibility at haverford. But yeah i still don't think Haverford will be a chalenge for the Aus team, I think we really do need organise games against MLL teams or Division1 college teams before the tournament.

[horney4lax]

The MLL wont allow any international teams to play them, because of some stupid rule they have. I know the US team is playing them, but the MLL have looked after thier own and pulled a few strings. I belive back in 2002 the aussie team tryed to get a game against one of the MLL teams, but they said no. Thats just wat ive herd anyway, it could be wrong.

[endoftheline]

maybe australia could get a prectice game against iroqois. I know there not as strong as MLL but it would be better then D3 college teams.

[Minotaur]

maybe australia could get a prectice game against iroqois. I know there not as strong as MLL but it would be better then D3 college teams.
Depends on which Division 3 teams we are talking about. Top 5 could easily play Division 1 lax: Salisbury, Nazerath, Cortland, Ithaca, Middlebury. The coach at Ithaca College, Jeff Long would probably be happy to oblige with a prep match for the Aussies, as he is a former Team USA player and coach. Trouble is it would be during summer break and students would be away. Best chance other than MLL, are club teams during their summer comps. Team Toyota, Crease Monkeys, Chesapeake, Hempstead lax club, etc, they usually have rosters packed with ex-Division 1 talent.

[Corduroy]

WOW! After spending the last 6 months following the lame forum discussion on the 2006 Worlds website, it's refreshing to see some 'somewhat' intellegent discussion. I figure this is as good a place as any to publicly voice an opinion on the Aussie team selection. Generally I think the coaching panel did a pretty good job, however the team to me appears a little 'disjointed' and I am unclear whether they are going with a 'youth policy' or otherwise. The messages are mixed. It is good to see some 'fundamentals' being brought back on to the selection table. What by this is picking some blokes who aren't regarded for their fan fair and flashyness, but rather there toughness, eye's for the ball, and bloody reliable week in week out performances. The three that come to mind are Cam Shepherd and the Nathan and Dan Stiglich. Whilst Cameron is in his more mature years (32 I think), this is a bloke who goes about his business, plays the game tough and fair and should have been picked back in both 98 & 2002. I guess persistence pays. As for team Stiglich, again two of the hardest blokes playing the game, not flashy, but extremely effective. Bit like their father Peter, who I'm told was as hard as they come. Very supprised to see Brad Ross ommitted from this team. For a kid his size, he has a heart and courage greater than most on the team selected. If it was a size thing, then you only watch him beat week in and week out the best defenders in our country. This kid would have been one of my first pick and after having played with and against Brad for many year, I would say he's probably one of the most intellegent players getting around. The coaching staff got this very wrong - especially when you look at his fellow clubman who was picked before him. I would agree with the ommission of G.Purdie. The guy has served his country well, but is simply not a team player and would upset the balance too much. Two great goalies picked, but would question the committment of Warren Brown, having not gone through the entire 'end to end' process. Great goalie though and with Scooter will add great strength to our D. Wish I could say the same for Nyberg. Great guy, but looks like Virgil from the thunderbirds when he's kitted up. It was surely a given having Stark, Tokarua, Inge and Nicholas in the team. Probably the 4 hottest players in the country at the moment. Anyways, I like the rest of the Aussie Lac Frat look forward to seeing our fellow countrymen and teammates play in what will be the most exciting comp since Baltimore 98. Look forward to seeing a vast improvement on Perth. In closing, that Yank who now calls himself an Aussie and is treating us like his poor cousin - I say bring in some of our homegrown talent and reward a kid who has played his guts out on Aussie soil for the past 20 odd years!!
Peace...!!

[StoolPigeon]

Charlie Zaraffa plays pretty good with a long pole.

[cannon]

thats cus Charlie is an ex-Williamstown champion. nicknamed the hoover for his ground ball work and choofing chaz for his chain smoking!

[Corduroy]

Charlie Zarrafa??? he'd have to be about 60 y.o by now right. Was great to watch playing for Willy all those years ago, but now.......i think I'd take Nyberg.

[lacrosselover]

is anyone going over to watch the games? if you do, make sure you go through the official supporter travel agency, coz it will hepl the team out big time....

[endoftheline]

how much is it to go and watch the games?

[piglet]

There are many kids of Aussies living and playing overseas. I coach a team of them. We have a group of Aussies here whose kids play lax (mine included) they are all dual citizens eligble to play for Australia if they are ever good enough. I would hope that one day if they were good enough they could play for Oz. Likewise I'm sure that Gordon Purdy's kids are going to be reasonable players!!

Did you know that this year in the US there are nearly 400,000 registered lacrosse players? I was recently asked at the US Coaching conference why given our small numbers are we so good!!!!!!!!!

Good old bloody Aussie know how, thats why!

[Corduroy]

Would be handy if they had actually put together a package. According to the ALC website, it was supposed to be ready in June.....Hmmmm! Still nothing yet.

[lacrosselover]

I think it will be about $3,000 for supporters, including airfares, accom, meals and tickets to the games....

[cannon]

For supporter package info contact Rod Sear, the teams general manager. rsear@bigpond.net.au

[laxlegend]

cannon, u forgot joffa, (jeff joy), he plays 4 my club (malvern, vic), and he's seriously a legendary goalie. I went 2 a Vic vs SA match and he was Vics goalie. The difference between him and SA's goalie was amazing. by the way we won. Joffa is easily the best goalie in Aus, i reckon. Good bloke, too.

[endoftheline]

cannon, u forgot joffa, (jeff joy), he plays 4 my club (malvern, vic), and he's seriously a legendary goalie. I went 2 a Vic vs SA match and he was Vics goalie. The difference between him and SA's goalie was amazing. by the way we won. Joffa is easily the best goalie in Aus, i reckon. Good bloke, too.

If he was easily the best goalie in Australia he'd be in the team. Joffas a great goalie but from the sounds of it most of the goalies were pretty even. Just because he plays for Malvernwhich is your club doesn't make him the best in Australia.

[cannon]

You'll notice throughout this thread that I rate Jeff highly and consistently had him in my top pics for the team.

Personally, and i think anyone who went to the camps or has been around the traps for a while would agree, there is not a great deal separating the top 8 goalies in Australia. All with differing levels of fitness, style, age and experience. The coaches went with age/experience(and track record) on this team and thats understandable.
But as endoftheline said, just because he's from Malvern doesnt make him the best.

[aussielax]

yeah i've got to agree with cannon and endoftheline on that one.

He is good keeper, but i just don't think he has what it takes to play for Australia, this time at least, However he should be one of the front runner's for the position at the next world's.

[laxlegend]

I reckon Joffa (Jeff Joy) will be in there too. He plays for my club and he's a kick-*** goalie. Tom Benson is the U/13 Goalie and I reckon he'll be in there one day (he made me write that). Anyway, I saw a Vic vs SA game and Joffa (vic's goalie, of course) was a helluva lot better than SA's. He's a good bloke, too.

[endoftheline]

yeh wishful thinking tommy.
It would always be hard for joffa to be the australian goalie if hes not even the number 1 victorian goalie.

[bluedevil49]

It would always be hard for joffa to be the australian goalie if hes not even the number 1 victorian goalie.
Not really. The Australian coach may have a different opinion to the Victorian coach. Not saying that's this is the case now, just highlighting the hypothetical.

[Corduroy]

Joffa should not have even made the Victorian Tean this year. The entire lax fraternity know the Scooter and Tillo are the two best goalies in Vic. He only got picked cause his old man was coaching. I thought that stuff only happened in U'13 rep teams.

[lacrosselover]

corduroy, thats a bit of a generalisation

[Corduroy]

Cannon & Co,

Would like to remind you that Malvern really aren;t that much chop these days. Really the product of getting too ****y with their success in the 90's and forgetting about their future. My tip is they'll be relegated within a couple of years, once Skepper, Spiro, DK etc finish up.

[Corduroy]

Which part mate??

[lukeoz]

Piglet, as good as it is to hear that there are plenty of Aussies in the US with kids who play lax there, and these kids would be eligible under ILF criteria through dual citizenship, they would still be products of the US Lacrosse system, and more likely than not consider themselves American first Australian second. Especially now where we live in the global community with people moving across the world so freely and easily, there will be a lot more people around the world, lacrosse players included, with parents from foreign countries. If we continue with these rules and the US remains the dominant force of lacrosse we risk the world championships turning into a mickey-mouse tournament of teams consisting of mercenaries, representing the best country they could hope for. I know this is a worst-case scenario and a bit doomsday of me, but the potential is there. If you are the 24th best player in the USA, you might be the first pick for every other country, it's too bad you didn't make your national team, but no reason that you should participate for another country under the guise that your parents or grandparents are from somewhere else.

It may make the world championships more competitive, but it will be less of a world championship and more of an elite club competition of a different name. That's what the MLL is for. Let's campaign to make the World Championships a genuine event.

[cannon]

Joffa should not have even made the Victorian Tean this year. The entire lax fraternity know the Scooter and Tillo are the two best goalies in Vic. He only got picked cause his old man was coaching. I thought that stuff only happened in U'13 rep teams.

Does the entire lax frat know that? I guess it's who you talk too mate. I understand the sentiment that joff got picked b/c of his old man but really at the vic trials...i wasn't able to walk properly for 2 of the four sessions and tillo missed one or two as well. That left Jeff and Scoot as the two that made all four sessions. And when the comp is that even, i think it makes a difference. In any case, its all said and done now so lets turn our heads to have a think about how the Aussies can beat England, Iroqouis, Japan, Canada and the US..

[lacrosselover]

We have the US for the first game, with the talent in the squad I think we could give them a serious run for their money. I know thats being optimistic but you have to be and I think with our aussie spirit we always have a chance...

Should beat England, Japan and the Iroqouis without much trouble...

Canada is always unpredictable and with gary gait (by far the best player of all time) they will be very strong...

Lookout for the supplemental draft in a week, a couple more aussies are tipped to get drafted and will be great players in the MLL.....

[lacrosselover]

I agree with cannon, i think all the goalies who were at the aussie camp were preety even, and they could almost have picked anyone...

[cannon]

Lookout for the supplemental draft in a week, a couple more aussies are tipped to get drafted and will be great players in the MLL.....


Who are tipped? And what is your source? The only person I can think of as fitting the bill would be Kim Delfs who has a) recently graduated b) got himself a job at BHP in New York and c) might be remotely dangerous enough.

[lacrosselover]

JT and Darren Nicolas have entered the draft and are expected to be taken by San Francisco....

[lacrosselover]

robbie stark has also entered.....

I hear Aaron Sargeant has as well....

[cannon]

wow, thats fresh news.

Nicholas has a job as a teacher here and a young family so it would be hard for him.

JT is a prime candidate. Robbie would do quite well.

gee that would wreck Caulfield.

[endoftheline]

yeh Jt is awesome it would be great if he got drafted. As for what cordorouy said about malvern i think we'll struggle but there is good junior players in under 17s who should hopefully help keep us from being relegated.

[lacrosselover]

anyone want to have a crack at the starting lineup for australia, who they think will perform well and stuff?

[goalielegend]

i went to the vic vs sa match and a couple of those guys should be on the team like jt and joffa

[goalielegend]

garath im one of those first class goalie yea me tom

[aussielax]

i went to the vic vs sa match and a couple of those guys should be on the team like jt and joffa

Umm JT is in the team, And let me guess you play for malvern?

[lacrosselover]

hahahah spot on aussielax.....

[endoftheline]

stop spamming guys

[endoftheline]

what sort of traing do the aussie team have to do. How often is it?

[cannon]

The training regime will be similar to the 2003 Under 19's regime.

It varies at different time of the year depending on club season, time from championships etc but for a rough guide.

5-3x Weights Sessions (plenty of core strength)
3-5x Running Sessions
5x Skills Sessions

also will involve some cross training ie: swimming, cycling etc

closer to the championships it will involve plyometrics and agility

[lightningmvp]

probley wen tassie get a state team together that dont lose to every team by 10 goals, yeah maybe. nah it just aint be enough there. are there even clubs in tassie?


Yeah there's 4 senior clubs. We had a state team this year that was at the Paradise tourny. we came 3rd in that so no we dont lose by 10 goals every game! just cos we dont have that many ppl down here playin it doesnt mean we dont have talent. we have a few pretty good players that i reckon could play ALL if they had the chance. u guys just dont care cos all u think is that we're all two headed tasmanians that cant play. we do have a BOX league going now so when ur down next, check it out. tasbox.tk is the site and u'll see its not that bad. our state's dominated by hockey, soccer, footy and cricket so its not our fault theres no numbers

[endoftheline]

whats plyometrics?

[cannon]

plyometrics....well in laymans terms its training your nervous system to be able so react when the muscle is at full strech and thus making you more powerful, dynamic and agile. training for it includes ladder runs, mini hurdles, hopping and lots of other bizarre looking things. all about quick feet and responsive muscles.

google it if you want a much better explanation and tips etc.

[laxer1]

obviously M.L.L or N.L.L experience doesnt mean much for this aussie team ......

[bluedevil49]

obviously M.L.L or N.L.L experience doesnt mean much for this aussie team ......
Interesting first post. I'm guessing you are talking about Dennis Juleff?

Everyone that did not make the team should have received feedback. I would like to see what the feedback was that they gave him.

I hope that this rejection doesn't put him off trying out for future Aussie teams as I think he would be a great asset to have in the 2007 Indoor team.

[laxer1]

I watched U.S v Hopkins a little while ago very very tough to beat them ,but good luckwith that >.... england should be pretty easy ,a few pick ups but nothin too major ,Canada well they are always tough got some good newer talent there but pretty similar to last time ...good luck to all the guys in the Aussie team ....

[laxer1]

Interesting first post. I'm guessing you are talking about Dennis Juleff?

Everyone that did not make the team should have received feedback. I would like to see what the feedback was that they gave him.

I hope that this rejection doesn't put him off trying out for future Aussie teams as I think he would be a great asset to have in the 2007 Indoor team.

Would you not think he would have been an asset in this team ??

[bluedevil49]

Would you not think he would have been an asset in this team ??
I rate him pretty highly (great athlete, great skills and the fastest shot I've seen) but I guess that his style is not what the selectors were looking for. But that's just my pair of pennies

[12345]

On the whole Brendan Mundorf issue, maybe we could have criteria based on accent. Or based on gullible-ness in believing stories about Australian snakes biting their tales and rolling down hills. Or on ability to barbecue.

Brendan Mundorf is in the team now, so regardless of the fairness/unfairness of the whole situation he should be supported and made welcome so the Sharks can have the best shot at the gold medal next year.

Also, what are everybody's predictions for team captains? Guessing there will be 3, I would go for Peter Inge, John Tokarua and any of Darren Nicholas, Robbie Stark or Dave Whiteman.

[cannon]

On the whole Brendan Mundorf issue, maybe we could have criteria based on accent. Or based on gullible-ness in believing stories about Australian snakes biting their tales and rolling down hills. Or on ability to barbecue.

Brendan Mundorf is in the team now, so regardless of the fairness/unfairness of the whole situation he should be supported and made welcome so the Sharks can have the best shot at the gold medal next year.

Also, what are everybody's predictions for team captains? Guessing there will be 3, I would go for Peter Inge, John Tokarua and any of Darren Nicholas, Robbie Stark or Dave Whiteman.

haha, gold.

captains.... Scott Garnsworthy, Inge, Reggie Nicholas, Whiteman and Fleming as outside chances.

[ELC]

WOW! After spending the last 6 months following the lame forum discussion on the 2006 Worlds website, it's refreshing to see some 'somewhat' intellegent discussion. I figure this is as good a place as any to publicly voice an opinion on the Aussie team selection. Generally I think the coaching panel did a pretty good job, however the team to me appears a little 'disjointed' and I am unclear whether they are going with a 'youth policy' or otherwise. The messages are mixed. It is good to see some 'fundamentals' being brought back on to the selection table. What by this is picking some blokes who aren't regarded for their fan fair and flashyness, but rather there toughness, eye's for the ball, and bloody reliable week in week out performances. The three that come to mind are Cam Shepherd and the Nathan and Dan Stiglich. Whilst Cameron is in his more mature years (32 I think), this is a bloke who goes about his business, plays the game tough and fair and should have been picked back in both 98 & 2002. I guess persistence pays. As for team Stiglich, again two of the hardest blokes playing the game, not flashy, but extremely effective. Bit like their father Peter, who I'm told was as hard as they come. Very supprised to see Brad Ross ommitted from this team. For a kid his size, he has a heart and courage greater than most on the team selected. If it was a size thing, then you only watch him beat week in and week out the best defenders in our country. This kid would have been one of my first pick and after having played with and against Brad for many year, I would say he's probably one of the most intellegent players getting around. The coaching staff got this very wrong - especially when you look at his fellow clubman who was picked before him. I would agree with the ommission of G.Purdie. The guy has served his country well, but is simply not a team player and would upset the balance too much. Two great goalies picked, but would question the committment of Warren Brown, having not gone through the entire 'end to end' process. Great goalie though and with Scooter will add great strength to our D. Wish I could say the same for Nyberg. Great guy, but looks like Virgil from the thunderbirds when he's kitted up. It was surely a given having Stark, Tokarua, Inge and Nicholas in the team. Probably the 4 hottest players in the country at the moment. Anyways, I like the rest of the Aussie Lac Frat look forward to seeing our fellow countrymen and teammates play in what will be the most exciting comp since Baltimore 98. Look forward to seeing a vast improvement on Perth. In closing, that Yank who now calls himself an Aussie and is treating us like his poor cousin - I say bring in some of our homegrown talent and reward a kid who has played his guts out on Aussie soil for the past 20 odd years!!
Peace...!!
You musn't have a very in-depth understanding of lacrosse or how to analyze individuals......thank god u weren't on the selection panel or they would lose all their games.....

[Minotaur]

ELC, please feel free to elaborate....

[igloo dweller]

You musn't have a very in-depth understanding of lacrosse or how to analyze individuals......thank god u weren't on the selection panel or they would lose all their games.....

this isn't constructive at all, ELC. corduroy has put forth his opinion of the aussie team, and stated why he feels that way. if you have another opinion, thats cool, lets hear it.

i also disagree with some points corduroy made (nyberg deserved his spot due to his killer performance at the melbourne camp, pusvacietis had 2 super ALLs in a row and works beautifully with the stiggas, dont rate warren brown compared to jeff joy, wombat or sarge). i think the teams pretty spot on, but thats just my opinion.

the aussie boys trained at willy tonight and are looking fit as hell (apart from eugene desomnd's fat old arse :chuckle: ).

[cannon]

yeah that desmond sure has a fat arse. :thumbsup:

I think Pusca thouroughly deserved his spot but also that Brad Ross was unlucky.

So, who picks up the powell brothers? My Guess, Marquard on Mikey Powell, Fleming on Casey and JT on Ryan. For no reason in particular. Except that Marqaurd is probably the quickest on his toes when playing D, even if he's a little spaghetti like.

[snake]

I think it will be Flemming on Mikey, Nyburg on Casey and Shep on Ryan. Sam and JT will be running off the wing as they are the fastest.

[wittyno12]

I agree with Cannon that Marquard should play on Mikey Powell because he could keep up with him, Fleming doesnt have the speed. I reckon that JT will probably run off alot of the wings not really sure who the best match ups for casey and ryan would be because i havent seen much of the other defenders play.

What do you guys think our starting line up will be? I say Scooter goals, Inge face off, Reggie and JT wings, not sure bout the attack lines and D lines?

[snake]

Pus and 2 Stig in Attack. I agree with Inge face off, Reggie and JT wings. D will be Flemming, Shep and Nyburg and Goalie will be Scoot.

I'll be interested to see how close I am to the actual lineup.

[Minotaur]

Stigs more effective on Midfield dodging from top. Ardossi pushing at x with D. Pasc and Mundorf on attack. That attack could make US and Canuck D's work hard to contain. Games will be won at Midfield. Aussies have a good chance to body up and plunder groundballs. There will be plenty of bodies strewn on the ground...

[igloo dweller]

Goals: scoota - and shouldn't come out until the result is certain (one way or another)

d-poles: look for benny flem, cam shep and keffa to start most games. i'd rather have eugene start than cam shep myself.

middy: inge for face-off. ruffy and JT on the respective wings. formidable ground ball trio here. reggy wont run in from the wing line - he'll sub on for JT (or sammy marquad on string two).

attack: they'll change things around game to game.
pusca and 2 stiggas works very well. green, mango and mundorf will change things up.

[Creaseman]

Thought I would add my 2 cents worth here.....

I know for a fact that a few people are a bit pissed at some selections.....and some of the committment of the others....but thats in the past and nothing is going to change and the guys picked will do Australia pround.

But as much as I love to be patriotic does it really matter who plays on the Powell brothers....were are talking about arguably the best players we are ever likely to see and as they will all be representing the USA for the first time together I would think we are in for some Fireworks.....

I think we will be battling it out for bronze again which of course is no shame...

As for Gordon Purdie's omission....I am kinda glad in a way. As much as the bloke has contributed to the development of the sport in Australia and his great service to his country. I still can't watch the Australia vs Canada semi final from 2002 when I think he tried to do a little to much.....

[piglet]

Hey guys, ever heard of "loose lips sink ships"
Keep a lid on it,

[lacrosselover]

who was pissed at what selections?

[bluedevil49]

who was pissed at what selections?
I know the Mundoorf selection wasn't the most popular one. I also think that most teams have previously taken 7 longsticks. 6 is plenty though, especially when you consider who those 6 are.

If you had the talent to make it to the MLL and didn't get picked you may not be all that happy with the selections. I don't know DJ's feelings on this, but if it was me I might look at the selections differently.

[gm5]

I personally feel they should have taken 7 poles :)

[igloo dweller]

Hey guys, ever heard of "loose lips sink ships"
Keep a lid on it,

this is hardly military espionage going here - just a few hack aussies voicing their views on a hypothetical line up...if john desko is cruising this site and taking what i think down as gospel, then the sharks have more chance of winning than i first thought!

[bluedevil49]

...if john desko is cruising this site and taking what i think down as gospel, then the sharks have more chance of winning than i first thought!
Yeah, I can see it now.

"Why isn't my offence scoring on man up? It was written on TLF that the Aussie defence was going to play all 5 guys behind the cage just to get the first on"

[bluedevil49]

I personally feel they should have taken 7 poles :)
Oh I bet you do.

[wittyno12]

Oh I bet you do.

Don't you aswell DM?

[bluedevil49]

Well they selected 6 plus 2 alternates. Maybe if they selected 9 then I might have gotten a run. If they chose 12 I was definately in.

[ACBB]

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[Liam-Eltham]

I'm looking at Timmy Fry to play some good games, I play at same club and hes been looking promising before leaving.

[OzLAX]

does anyone else agree with me when i say stuart robb has been robbed?
even in a losing team he goes 110% till the end,
i just think he should have been in the team no worries...
what does everyone else think?

[thunder_15]

wow wat an old thread

[wittyno12]

does anyone else agree with me when i say stuart robb has been robbed?
even in a losing team he goes 110% till the end,
i just think he should have been in the team no worries...
what does everyone else think?


Stuart was robbed, good one..haha. I think he should of made the team in 2002 more so than 2006 though.